buying advice A bit of help with one particular RX450h and a company that is trying to sell it

[BartLexusFan]

Good Evening good people of LOC

I need a bit of a help with one particular RX450h SE-L, and the company that’s trying to sell it, that I’ve spotted on Autotrader and eBay. I am all too familiar with “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is”, and this particular vehicle might be a perfect example of this. So, who’s the patient?

2009 RX450h SE-L without air suspension, but with sunroof and ventilated seats (which hope are as good as on my previous 07 GS450h, and 04 LS430).  ML is a nice touch, so is the HUD, and LED lights, but I love sunroofs and ventilated seats, and it seems like You HAVE to go for SE-L if You want Your bottom to be a bit chilly. Luckily, sunroof can be had with Advance models, so might reconsider.

I looked up MOT service history, and it did have some oddities (YX59 RTV reg plate), like 

Nearside Front Lower engine mounting deteriorated resulting in excessive movement (6.1.D.1a) @ 99.000 miles, but nothing more than that.

The company that sells the vehicle is called NW Car Sales on Autotrader, and Wayfair Fleet LTD on eBay. Same car, but a bit more expensive on eBay. I couldn’t find much about NW Car Sales, but Wayfair Fleet LTD has been registered in 2018 and specialises in leasing taxis. Apparently it only has 2 employees. Both registered at the same address which is Unit 51 Mountheath Industrial Estate Ardent Way, Prestwich Manchester Greater Manchester M25 9WE. The thing is, street view, and google shows that Unit 51 is registered to Bollin Valley LTD, which can be seen on the picture 1, and actual Wayfair Fleet TLD is registered at 3 Fairway, Prestwich, United Kingdom, M25 0JF. Apparently the car also has full Lexus service history (pic 2).

Couple of questions. Am I too paranoid, or something doesn’t feel right in here? Can I ring up Lexus, and confirm the vehicle had these services done, or it won’t be disclosed? Having FLSH, and 123000 on the clock, will I be able to put on Lexus Warranty? 

 

 

[andy le]

lexus can confirm on there system the services that were completed, if there are a few from a particular dealership, they will have the details on there system. 

 

[royoftherovers]

Hi Bart,One cannot be too paranoid when buying a vehicle, but try to retain sense of perspective.

Is this the NW car sales you could not find anything about ? https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08175381

Yes, you can contact the Lexus Dealership and ask them about the vehicle and its record of an annual hybrid Battery check.

What warranty is the dealing Trader offering you at the point of sale?

Have you read any reviews by other purchasers of his vehicles?

Yes, the vehicle will be eligible for the Lexus Extended Warranty,(10 years old and 140,000 ) but they will presumably wish to check it out before approving.

 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, BartLexusFan said:

Having FLSH, and 123000 on the clock, will I be able to put on Lexus Warranty?

No because a vehicle has to be under 10 years old to take out a Lexus extended warranty. You would have to consider an independent warranty.

You can have a hybrid health check carried out by Lexus to give you a 12 month/10k mile warranty on the hybrid Battery.

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

No because a vehicle has to be under 10 years old to take out a Lexus extended warranty. You would have to consider an independent warranty.

You can have a hybrid health check carried out by Lexus to give you a 12 month/10k mile warranty on the hybrid battery.

Thanks Colin.I cannot do simple arithmetic tonight !

[ColinBarber]

It's a weird specification. One of the first ones in the country where maybe Lexus didn't have their spec sheets correct, or hadn't confirmed what they were getting from the factory.

In theory all SE-L should have air suspension. HUD should only be available on SE-L Premier (maybe could have been a special option). It isn't an SE-L Premier because it doesn't have the rear entertainment system but the Toyota build sheet implies it has the active stabiliser system on the suspension which definitely was only an SE-L Premier feature.

Registered too late to be the an initial press car but where the spec is written and first customer/showroom vehicles have a different spec - probably the best spec you could wish for, air suspension may not be the best thing to have on 10 year old vehicles.

[BartLexusFan]

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Hi Bart,One cannot be too paranoid when buying a vehicle, but try to retain sense of perspective.

Is this the NW car sales you could not find anything about ? https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08175381

Yes, you can contact the Lexus Dealership and ask them about the vehicle and its record of an annual hybrid battery check.

What warranty is the dealing Trader offering you at the point of sale?

Have you read any reviews by other purchasers of his vehicles?

Yes, the vehicle will be eligible for the Lexus Extended Warranty,(10 years old and 140,000 ) but they will presumably wish to check it out before approving.

 

Not sure if it's the same NW sales, as the ones You've posted are registered in Dorset, but are based in Manchester? Might be a branch or something 

[BartLexusFan]

56 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

It's a weird specification. One of the first ones in the country where maybe Lexus didn't have their spec sheets correct, or hadn't confirmed what they were getting from the factory.

In theory all SE-L should have air suspension. HUD should only be available on SE-L Premier (maybe could have been a special option). It isn't an SE-L Premier because it doesn't have the rear entertainment system but the Toyota build sheet implies it has the active stabiliser system on the suspension which definitely was only an SE-L Premier feature.

Registered too late to be the an initial press car but where the spec is written and first customer/showroom vehicles have a different spec - probably the best spec you could wish for, air suspension may not be the best thing to have on 10 year old vehicles.

Exactly this. Hence why I'm so inclined to just get it, no air but all other SE-L goodies including wooden steering wheel, sunroof, ventilation, HUD, LEDs, ML. To good to be true! I'm going to view it tomorrow/Monday. Shame about the warranty, but I'll see what I can get, maybe Lexus will somehow look in to this and still apply it even though it's 11 years old.

[Illogan]

It is a different NW Car Sales:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11981347/officers

 

[PCM]

Ring up Lexus Newcastle, maybe?

[BartLexusFan]

24 minutes ago, PCM said:

Ring up Lexus Newcastle, maybe?

Yeah, waiting for Monday to happen.

[Lager shandy]

If you buy the vehicle I would print off all the mot advisories and have the car fully inspected at lexus 

lower suspension ball joint boot was deteriorating a few mots ago probably shot by now if not replaced not all mot guys look at things the same .

engine mount was it ignored or replaced 

brake discs for warping ,also sounds likes its going to need a brake overhaul all round ,handbrake cables may be seizing or shoes and internal siezed worn out .

water leak leak check water pump for weeping people will just top up and move car on if presented with a possible big bill or replacement .

the guys on here will help you with dumping the car back on the dealer within 30  days for repair or money back.

i would also recommend having it checked for accident damage online check take it to a body shop guy he will tell straight away if it's been in a heavy shunt if not recorded with insurance.

ask if it's had aircon regaled lately if so wear ,there's been a few horror stories with wrong mix added etc.

main thing is no damp in car does everything work take a few people with you too spot stuff you may miss and a decent road test ignore the sales guy when ranting on about warranties just say no .no matter what he's says .

[BartLexusFan]

29 minutes ago, Lager shandy said:

If you buy the vehicle I would print off all the mot advisories and have the car fully inspected at lexus 

lower suspension ball joint boot was deteriorating a few mots ago probably shot by now if not replaced not all mot guys look at things the same .

engine mount was it ignored or replaced 

brake discs for warping ,also sounds likes its going to need a brake overhaul all round ,handbrake cables may be seizing or shoes and internal siezed worn out .

water leak leak check water pump for weeping people will just top up and move car on if presented with a possible big bill or replacement .

the guys on here will help you with dumping the car back on the dealer within 30  days for repair or money back.

i would also recommend having it checked for accident damage online check take it to a body shop guy he will tell straight away if it's been in a heavy shunt if not recorded with insurance.

ask if it's had aircon regaled lately if so wear ,there's been a few horror stories with wrong mix added etc.

main thing is no damp in car does everything work take a few people with you too spot stuff you may miss and a decent road test ignore the sales guy when ranting on about warranties just say no .no matter what he's says .

Amazing. Thank You so much for this post, I looked at the car with the phone in my hand reading what you've written. I've viewed the car today and wasn't particularly impressed. The seller started with "it's not ready yet" to my overall confusion. So I asked "what's the story"? Well the left mirror was hanging, but "will be replaced". The left LED headlamp didn't work at all (straight steering wheel, no indicators on but not sure if it switches off when indicators are on anyway). So left wing mirror and left headlamp, might indicate something bigger. Everything else did work, but it does look neglected. Well I know in current climate most cars might look neglected, but it could do with brake pads being replaced all around and oil change (black like Mercedes owners heart). He said that if I'll put a deposit down and he'll see I'm interested he'll fix the mirror and LED lamp, not sure why You wouldn't do it in general, but I don't run a car dealership so I'm none the wiser. Overall though I was happy with the experience, as realised I don't need HUD, as it looked nice but not that useful, and ventilated seats aren't a must as I thought. ML audio played brilliantly though, but apparently standard SE-I audio setup isn't THAT different so might look for a different model in the end.

[BartLexusFan]

Also, in the end after me checking everything, I switched it off, went out with the fob in my hand, realised I haven't checked the sunroof, came back left the fob in the centre cup holder, and the car wouldn't start. Nav screen was black, the gauges were lit but READY didn't come on. Turned if off and on couple of times, kept the key fob close to start button (at least that's how it worked in my 3GS450h in case batteries are low), but no luck. Did thag with the foot on the break. No idea.

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, BartLexusFan said:

Also, in the end after me checking everything, I switched it off, went out with the fob in my hand, realised I haven't checked the sunroof, came back left the fob in the centre cup holder, and the car wouldn't start. Nav screen was black, the gauges were lit but READY didn't come on. Turned if off and on couple of times, kept the key fob close to start button (at least that's how it worked in my 3GS450h in case batteries are low), but no luck. Did thag with the foot on the break. No idea.

From your last 2 perspectives, I wouldn`t walk away...........I`d run.

[Spacewagon52]

For every “fault” you can find there will be four more hidden! That is my mantra. There are always other ones that will come along eventually.

[royoftherovers]

50 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

For every “fault” you can find there will be four more hidden! That is my mantra. There are always other ones that will come along eventually.

OK,Davey, how many " faults" did you find/discover on your RX, then ?

[Barry14UK]

Just a thought that may be of interest.  When I bought my car it had to have HUD and indeed I found this very good from the point of view of being able to check speed  with the slighted lowering of my focus.  However, I found the Lexus sat nav very poor so I fitted a 6 inch TomTom slightly to to right and above the steering wheel and this shows actual speed limit next to the speed you are doing and only requires a slight momentary glance to the right as it's  in peripheral view.  I still use the HUD as as a speed check but have to say it would not have been such a 'must have' had I realized the TomTom would serve almost as well for checking speed and far better as a sat nav. 

[Spacewagon52]

3 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

OK,Davey, how many " faults" did you find/discover on your RX, then ?

An interesting question John!

 

We all try to follow due diligence when sourcing another vehicle. Even though I have my checklist, you can still buy a pup ….... actually I have bought two in the past … no three!

 

I travelled to Northampton for my RX 300 after searching for a few weeks on AutoTrader (I am uneasy about eBay – just old fashioned prejudice!) looking at various cars. This one seemed to tick most of the boxes and looked immaculate in the photos, but the camera can lie! The dealer told me it was a bereavement sale and it only had one owner. The old gentleman bought it new from Lexus Hatfield but after a move he had it serviced at a Toyota garage and that part of the service history was missing. The MOT and mileage checks on the DVLA website seemed to match what the dealer had told me. The dealer, to his credit, contacted the Toyota garage and got a print out of the service record. There were no Lexus dealerships near where the gentleman had moved to. In the last two years the car had only done 2,000 miles but the gentleman had insisted that the garage service it!

 

I arrived and it started to rain, NOT a good time to view but I had no choice. The car looked immaculate. I found the following faults:-

 

1. Only one key

2. Load cover was missing (I never use one anyway)

3. Very small dent on the back bumper.

4. The remote did not work

It looked a peach so I bought it.

 

After a week I found that one rear door would not always lock – an intermittent fault I would, at some point, get repaired as it was a pain to check it after locking the car. I remember the days BEFORE central locking!

 

As often happens with these cars …..... it repaired itself and the fault has permanently gone! YES I still check when I am out! Doh!

 

So John, to answer your question, my mantra was wrong – only one fault found after purchase!

 

Even with due diligence and research you can still buy a lemon, I have in the past, but it was not a Lexus!

[royoftherovers]

That`s a great story David. Not what I expected at all.I would therefore buy a used car from you if I was in the market for one.

Many thanks for responding.

[Lager shandy]

After reading all you have said regarding the car the biggest alarm bell for me is the comment the black oil on dip stick . The oil at it worst with regular oil changes should dark brown . I did notice it went well over 20k past and oil change on the history at one point I would need written prove from Lexus it was regularly service to manufactures spec .

[granadaman]

Remember the barge pole, wouldn’t touch it with one. If it’s a dog it’s been abused and probably a repo. Black oil, mines always been medium brown between services near the end, do yourself a favour find a better one. Old motto buy cheap buy twice and with Lexus a lot of zeros on repair bills unless your handy

[Werewolf334]

Hi

Saw your post - thought I would share my experiences dealing with dealers on a used RX and then GS

1) Photos from a distance really don't tell you anything - many dents/scratches aren't visible until you get close
2) Any dealer not willing to do a walk-around video or get you some photos of the car on request is not worth your time
3) Full-service history (FSH) is useful but not the end-all / be-all of condition
4) Used luxury cars are bargains but parts/service still command a luxury price 
5) If you see a pattern of failings in the MOT history, you may be able to assume a lack of preventive maintenance (car knowledge/willingness to fix)

 

[BartLexusFan]

In the end I walked away and never bothered coming back. As much as I would love SE-L without Air, it's just not worth it. I bought cars in the past where I thought "nah I'm gonna fix that in the future", and never did. I'm in no rush now, I'll wait for my model. I had Lexus card bought from LOC members, that were in brand new showroom condition having 108.000 Miles on the clock, but I also bought another Lexus from LOC member that turned out to be a lemon after 300 Miles. I had cars with FSH that failed after 1000 Miles, and part service history that lasted me 4 years with me just doing basic stuff like brakes and oils. Shame SE-I with sunroof is such a rarity, and I would have to fork out extra for Advance, or go with SE-L and risk Air, but I'll see about that. Might actually see if I can fork out something extra from my pocket and maybe buy used from Lexus directly if I can't find anything. As daft as it sounds I just love sunroo, but each to their own 🙂 Thank You all for Your contribution, there's a lot of food for thought with that. 

[Barry14UK]

"or go with SE-L and risk Air"

You might be interested in a post I will be making later today having first got a bit of shut eye and got details to hand about my very expensive visit to Lexus Cheltenham yesterday!