Gearbox knackered!

[Akyb]

Hi all.I've been off the forum for a while but now need advice please. My 2004 Ls430 Lpg is in need of a gearbox rebuild. I've been quoted £2300 by a specialist.

The oil is a thick black sludge with a burning smell even though it was changed 2000 miles ago.It will not engage Drive .The car has a full history and I've owned it since early 2006 and has 214k on it and used to drive perfectly.It has a Prins Sequential Lpg system that has been serviced when due.

. Is it worth the outlay or say goodbye and Try to sell it ?

[ColinBarber]

Sorry to hear this. Do you know the reason for failure - transmission cooler failure in radiator, fluid change incorrectly done etc?

That is certainly a lot of expense for the rebuild. Cheaper to purchase a used one from a scrapped vehicle but by the time you have paid for installation there may not be too much difference.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-Ls430-6-Speed-Gearbox-Transmission-Facelift-03-06/113746395756?hash=item1a7bd0426c:g:g1YAAOSw8sJc4hU0

 

[m4rkw]

11 minutes ago, Akyb said:

. Is it worth the outlay or say goodbye and Try to sell it ?

What's the condition of the rest of the car? If everything else is in good shape then it would seem like it's a question of comparing the cost of the rebuild/replacement vs whatever you would buy to replace it. If you're not sure of the condition of everything else it may be worth having an inspection carried out, just to see where you stand.

Black sludgy fluid after 2000 miles seems strange though. Are you sure it was serviced correctly?

[Akyb]

It had a service and gearbox oil done from a reputable garage .The car is in average condition IMO.The drivers seat has a small rip and needs re-colouring but other than that only age related stuff .

I've had a wheel bearing done  with last service and alloys refurbed  2 years ago ,Radiator replaced last year.It is ULEZ  exempt (not that I go to London often).

Worth £3k(while working) at best in my opinion 

[m4rkw]

I don't know how much these things usually cost but £2300 seems cheap for a gearbox rebuild. What kind of guarantee does that come with? If it was my car and everything else was in good shape I'd be very tempted by that, but I'd want to make sure it was going to be done well and wouldn't just fail again within a year.

[m4rkw]

This is an approach that's been suggested to me before - work out how much you've spent in total on repairs, divide it by the number of months you've owned the car. If that figure is say, £150/month, then this repair is about 15.3 months worth. Given the condition of the rest of the car, if you think you can reasonably expect not to have to do anything else for 15 months then it's worth it.

IMO though, if £2300 is going to fix it properly.. what else are you going to buy for £2300?

[Akyb]

Hi Mark.It is an Independent gearbox specialist (2 old boys ) who are very highly recommended. They assure me it will be 'as new

'A M Gearboxes

https://goo.gl/maps/aP5MkpJNzgU2iJWa8

Edited September 9, 2020 by Akyb

[m4rkw]

1 minute ago, Akyb said:

Hi Mark.It is an Independent gearbox specialist (2 old boys ) who are very highly recommended. They assure me it will be 'as new'

Assuming nothing else is pending (brakes, suspension components, rust, engine.. ) I think I'd fix it. Is the engine in that one the same as the LS400? Matt Farah took his to a million miles, they last a long time if looked after.

[Akyb]

That's what my heart is saying.Costs me £40 in LPG every fortnight and I'm down to about 5k miles per year these days.

I will think this over .Thanks for you input everyone .

 

[The-Acre]

28 minutes ago, Akyb said:

That's what my heart is saying.Costs me £40 in LPG every fortnight and I'm down to about 5k miles per year these days.

I will think this over .Thanks for you input everyone .

 

It's a bit like me spending so much getting my suspension and steering the way I want it, I'll never be able to sell the car to recover what I've spent but I'm enjoying it more now.  

[steve2006]

Did it get serviced using Toyota Type IV transmission fluid or an “equivalent”?

[Akyb]

Toyota. Bought from Lexus dealer 

[m4rkw]

I'm still very curious to understand how your gearbox went from clean fluid to black and sludgy in 2000 miles. I can only think that either it seriously overheated or there was water ingress, or both.

[runsgrateasanut]

Perhaps catch some on the dipstick and leave it to settle in a glass jar. Never tried this, but .....

Does make you wander if wrong fluid put in. Apprentice? Surely not.

It not being oil as such, how does this settle? i.e. oil and water

 

[abtx]

I have the same dilemma. I had my coolant mix with gearbox oil, had it flushed a year ago and the car works, but it shudders when doing 30/40mph and shortly when changing gears in higher speeds. I'm not sure why it's doing this? Torque converter? Anyway, I might need to replace the gearbox as well, which will cost me around 2k. If it wasn't difficult enough to find a gearbox for my 430, I can't find a torque converter. But I love this car and I'm going to do it if necessary. Anytime I look up other cars it just doesn't make sense to spend the amount of money to buy another car that will be comparable. If you know your car well and you're not putting crazy amount of miles on it I'd keep it for as long as it drives and petrol doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[ColinBarber]

12 minutes ago, abtx said:

I have the same dilemma. I had my coolant mix with gearbox oil, had it flushed a year ago and the car works, but it shudders when doing 30/40mph and shortly when changing gears in higher speeds. I'm not sure why it's doing this? Torque converter? Anyway, I might need to replace the gearbox as well, which will cost me around 2k. If it wasn't difficult enough to find a gearbox for my 430, I can't find a torque converter. But I love this car and I'm going to do it if necessary. Anytime I look up other cars it just doesn't make sense to spend the amount of money to buy another car that will be comparable. If you know your car well and you're not putting crazy amount of miles on it I'd keep it for as long as it drives and petrol doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

you can get remanufactured torque converters for less than £200 from Rockauto and other places in the US - cheaper if you can get the old unit back to them as an exchange. It is possible that the lock-up clutch on the TC is the cause of the shudder but would need more precise info to determine that.

[abtx]

3 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

you can get remanufactured torque converters for less than £200 from Rockauto and other places in the US - cheaper if you can get the old unit back to them as an exchange. It is possible that the lock-up clutch on the TC is the cause of the shudder but would need more precise info to determine that.

Thanks for the info, that's a good price. I'm not sure how to determine what's causing the shudder. Could be the converter, or perhaps the amount of fluid is not right - I diid check the overflow drain at the right temperature (via the diagnostic mode which activates on shorted OBD pins) but with the A/C running. I wonder whether complete oil change might be the best next move?

[ColinBarber]

2 minutes ago, abtx said:

I diid check the overflow drain at the right temperature (via the diagnostic mode which activates on shorted OBD pins) but with the A/C running. I wonder whether complete oil change might be the best next move?

Did you get any fluid out? You need some to run out so you know it is at the full mark. If you get nothing then you aren't sure if it is just at the correct level or low.

You do need to be sure the fluid is good and filled correctly before assuming something more serious. There is the possibility that all the contamination wasn't removed the first time from all the clutches so another change can only be a good thing.

[abtx]

1 minute ago, ColinBarber said:

Did you get any fluid out? You need some to run out so you know it is at the full mark. If you get nothing then you aren't sure if it is just at the correct level or low.

You do need to be sure the fluid is good and filled correctly before assuming something more serious. There is the possibility that all the contamination wasn't removed the first time from all the clutches so another change can only be a good thing.

Cheers Colin. No, no fluid came out. I think I'd like to change it again, just need to find a specialist who will change it completely, and not just drain.

[m4rkw]

7 hours ago, abtx said:

Cheers Colin. No, no fluid came out. I think I'd like to change it again, just need to find a specialist who will change it completely, and not just drain.

I don't normally recommend flushes but a friend of mine had a gearbox with some kind of shifting issue on a Porsche and he had it "power-flushed" (whatever that means) by a gearbox specialist and it cured the issue. Might be worth looking into since it's likely much cheaper than a rebuild. You'll want to make sure that whatever machine they use is going to use the correct fluid for your unit and not some generic flushing ATF.

[Akyb]

Toyota. Bought from Lexus dealer .

Quote is £2450  incl  VAT with 12 mths warranty. Will be 'as new'.As long as I have an annual gearbox service (£156) they will renew the warranty for another 12 months..

Final decision to be given to them by Tuesday 🤔

[m4rkw]

22 minutes ago, Akyb said:

Toyota. Bought from Lexus dealer .

Quote is £2450  incl  VAT with 12 mths warranty. Will be 'as new'.As long as I have an annual gearbox service (£156) they will renew the warranty for another 12 months..

Final decision to be given to them by Tuesday 🤔

On the surface that sounds like a good deal, the service they're proposing is about half what I normally pay. I am curious as to why it would need another service so soon though, maybe ask why that is and what they're doing for the money? Your original transmission went 214k before giving up and presumably wasn't serviced any more frequently than 50k intervals. If the rebuilt unit will be truly "like new" then why does it need a service after only a year?

[m4rkw]

Looking around online it seems like 3 years is about the most you ever get on a rebuilt transmission warranty and 2 is much more common.

[DaKa]

I would have thought that buying a second hand donor car would make more financial sense providing it runs and you know the gears are working smoothly.

I'll be parting with my LS430 2001 on this forum shortly, (not sure if transmissions are the same?) so keep an eye out for the ad as I'd like it to go to a forum member

[Akyb]

Unfortunately I will be saying goodbye to my Ls 😪.I will put it up on eBay this weekend. Difficult decision to make but finances dictate at the present. 

I take it I can put a link up to the ad on here?