Failed hybrid check - should I be concerned?

[Lore]

I hope this is the right subforum for this topic!

The car I wish to buy comes from an independent dealership and has been taken to Lexus for a hybrid health check yesterday. Unfortunately it failed the check, plus a several other issues were diagnosed (a minor oil leak at the rear of the engine, some issues (dampness and a possible leak) with the AC condenser, and some minor stuff like worn wipers and break pads, seizing rear calipers and missing wheel lock). The dealership told me that the HHC has been failed because the car sat unused for a few months during the COVID-19 pandemic peak and the car will pass the HHC without problems once the car is driven for a few hundred miles to recharge the Battery. They asked me whether I'd like to get my deposit back, or purchase at a lower price, or if they should sort out the issues found in their garage, I chose the last option for the time being. Seems honest and genuine approach to a customer, it is a reputable dealership. After consulting with my dad, who has decent level of mechanical expertise, I am not that concerned about the oil and AC problems if they want to fix them, but I am a little worried about the hybrid Battery, is it true what the trader claims? If they are happy to fix everything and re-do the hybrid health check, should I still be interested in purchasing the car? Thank you for any information provided!

[Herbie]

They are correct with respect to the hybrid Battery. Just a few days ago another member on here had the check done at Lexus and they told him the same thing.

I can't remember the exact reason for this, although I'm sure someone else will be along shortly who can explain it in more detail. I think it's to do with the logging systems that may have codes listed, not because something really is faulty but just because the system doesn't have enough recent data to work on, which is why they need you to drive it for a few hundred miles.

I'm really not sure about the other things though. Yes, they may only be small things that are easily dealt with - but they may turn into a nightmare.

I suppose it boils down to how urgently you need or want a car. It may take a bit of time and it may mean you have to travel a bit, but I'm sure that sooner or later a better car will turn up without the problems that this one seems to have.

[royoftherovers]

Sorry to read that Anita.

Herbie has given his view which accords with mine, but Colin Barber (a Moderator) will probably be along shortly to give you a definitive answer.

[johnatg]

You don't say which model you're looking at, or how old. Some of the things you list may not be minor - you can't live with bit of dampness on an AC system - it has to be completely gas tight or it will empty quickly (unless you want to dispense with AC altogether - but hey - this is a Lexus GS). Oil leaks might not look much but can cost a fortune to fix. If you went to a Lexus dealer they would want to replace the seizing brakes lock stock and barrel.

The hybrid Battery might recover or be recoverable - but it might not.

I would walk away - find a car with a full Lexus service history including a (passed) hybrid health check.

[Thackeray]

2 hours ago, Lore said:

The dealership told me that the HHC has been failed because the car sat unused for a few months during the COVID-19 pandemic peak and the car will pass the HHC without problems once the car is driven for a few hundred miles to recharge the battery.

If the independent dealership has taken the car to a Lexus dealer for a hybrid health check, they might expect to have been given a printed report. This is what private customers get. This has a number of different categories under which it can fail, including diagnostic codes. But it also includes internal resistance, internal voltage, and variation between the Battery modules that make up the whole unit. To replace any of these could be expensive, particularly if you pay Lexus prices. I would ask to see this report.

It may be that driving a few hundred miles could do something to make the diagnostic codes look happier. I haven't come across this problem so I don't know what this might be. But as regards charging the Battery, my experience with the IS suggests you don't need a few hundred miles to recharge the Battery.

On the IS, it takes four minutes while the car is stationary for the engine to raise the hybrid Battery charge from its minimum of 40% (represented by two bars on the dashboard display) to its default level of 50% (three bars on the dashboard display). Then the engine stops. This is because the point of the Battery is to collect regenerated energy so that it can be used later. If the Battery is topped up to eight bars, then the car can't store any regenerated energy.because the Battery is already full.

If the car is left parked with three bars of charge, I'd expect it still to be showing three bars of charge a week later and possibly even a month later, from what others have reported.

So you can easily tell if the hybrid Battery is being charged by running the engine for four or five minutes with the car stationary in Park. Don't rev the engine - on the IS charging stops when you rev the engine (or if you select Neutral). You wouldn't be able to tell if it's holding its charge without coming back a few days later.

But really you want to see the hybrid health check report to see what the problem actually is. Replacement of modules could be expensive if this is the problem.

[royoftherovers]

"If the independent dealership has taken the car to a Lexus dealer for a hybrid health check, they might expect to have been given a printed report. This is what private customers get."

I have not received anything other than a certifcate in the last 10 years William !

Why do you say what you have said ?

[NemesisUK]

Perhaps one only gets a detailed report if the vehicle fails the hybrid health check?

A pass generates a simple certificate?

[GS300h2014]

This what I get:

[Herbie]

Yep, that's what I've got as well.

[Thackeray]

I get the same as John "GS300h2014". On the other side of the paper it says, "Lexus Hybrid Health Check Pass...This is to certify that your Lexus has successfully passed its annual health check..."

[Lore]

3 hours ago, Herbie said:

They are correct with respect to the hybrid battery. Just a few days ago another member on here had the check done at Lexus and they told him the same thing.

I can't remember the exact reason for this, although I'm sure someone else will be along shortly who can explain it in more detail. I think it's to do with the logging systems that may have codes listed, not because something really is faulty but just because the system doesn't have enough recent data to work on, which is why they need you to drive it for a few hundred miles.

I'm really not sure about the other things though. Yes, they may only be small things that are easily dealt with - but they may turn into a nightmare.

I suppose it boils down to how urgently you need or want a car. It may take a bit of time and it may mean you have to travel a bit, but I'm sure that sooner or later a better car will turn up without the problems that this one seems to have.

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I've been looking for a good one for months now, and slowly it becomes more and more urgent.

 

2 hours ago, johnatg said:

You don't say which model you're looking at, or how old. Some of the things you list may not be minor - you can't live with bit of dampness on an AC system - it has to be completely gas tight or it will empty quickly (unless you want to dispense with AC altogether - but hey - this is a Lexus GS). Oil leaks might not look much but can cost a fortune to fix. If you went to a Lexus dealer they would want to replace the seizing brakes lock stock and barrel.

The hybrid battery might recover or be recoverable - but it might not.

I would walk away - find a car with a full Lexus service history including a (passed) hybrid health check.

Silly me, I have no idea why I didn't mention what exactly I am looking for. It's GS 450h, preferably 2010-2011 (can't afford the next gen at this moment).

 

1 hour ago, Thackeray said:

If the independent dealership has taken the car to a Lexus dealer for a hybrid health check, they might expect to have been given a printed report. This is what private customers get. This has a number of different categories under which it can fail, including diagnostic codes. But it also includes internal resistance, internal voltage, and variation between the battery modules that make up the whole unit. To replace any of these could be expensive, particularly if you pay Lexus prices. I would ask to see this report.

...

But really you want to see the hybrid health check report to see what the problem actually is. Replacement of modules could be expensive if this is the problem.

Thank you, I will definitely ask for the report!

[ColinBarber]

There are a couple of reasons for essentially what is a refusal to perform/complete a hybrid heath check.

1. There is an existing error code relating to the hybrid system. This will be cleared but Toyota/Lexus insist that the vehicle is driven for 400-600 miles (not sure the exact distance) to make sure the fault no longer exists.
2. If the 12v aux Battery goes flat/is disconnected then all error codes are wiped, or if codes were purposely cleared. Again 400-600 miles needs to be driven to make sure no faults exist and a code wasn't cleared on purpose to try and get warranty coverage.

The reason for the distance is that certain faults only show up intermittently or after a certain conditions e.g. vehicle speed, hard acceleration etc. etc. The distance stipulated means most, if not all conditions, would have been encountered and so Toyota has confidence that the system is working fine. They are relying on the hybrid system itself to detect faults, ones that cannot be tested for in a workshop and within the timeframe allocated to conduct the HHC.

 

[Steven Lockey]

I would be very cautious. I had the same thing. Dealer told me the exact same thing.

Turned out it needed the hybrid Battery reconditioned, which will come to around £700. I got the dealer
to pay this and got a new Battery instead for £2k, which was actually more than the car cost me
after the reduction. If the car is over 150k miles, that will probably be the advice you get.

Still got all my old cells sitting in the box behind me atm, keep meaning to put them on eBay for someone
to recondition! Does look like only 1 was actually faulty.

Still, don't let that put you off too much, it just passed it's MOT with only a few minor issues and GS450h
are very solid cars.

Basically I'd only take it from the dealer on the grounds if it does turn out to be an actual Battery fault, they
get the Battery repaired.

[Lore]

Thanks for the reply Steven. The car in question has 80,000+ miles on the clock, but I somewhat lost trust to that dealership, claiming to have all their cars inspected and prepared to the highest standard and then suddenly an oil leak and problems with AC and seized calipers turn up...

I found another interesting one, this time from a private seller, and he's willing to take the car for a HHC before we strike the deal, it's a 2007 SE-L with 70,000+ miles and 11 Lexus stamps, a little overpriced for the age and being a private seller, but I will probably go see it.

[KayCee]

Anita

Use your bargaining skills i am sure you will be able to strike a deal

[Mossypossy]

I know a guy who paid £1500 for a 2007 gs450h because it had a "failed" Battery pack. 

I think that is at the extreme end of bargaining.

[Steven Lockey]

Mine was just over £1k. Originally was just under 2k, but I gave them the choice of either refunding
the amount of the repair or I would return the car for a full refund and claim compensation (nearly £200
in train fare to pick it up and return it + insurance cancellation charge)

Thats a 2007 450h as well, it did have a lot of miles on it (160k) but all the mechanics were very sound.