IS250 failed fuel pump, very costly!

[MartinH]

My 2007 IS250 failed to start Monday. Called RAC, could not start, diagnosed no fuel reaching engine. Car recovered to Lexus Edgware Road (not without some fumbling by RAC). Lexus techs baffled, no diagnosis until Saturday — fuel pump failed. Lead tech says this is extraordinarily rare, and they will apply to a Lexus UK mitigation program for older cars that will rebate some of the cost of an unusual failure. (Lexus keen to see older cars circulating apparently, because it promotes the brand image of a bullet-proof marque.)

At retail price, with no intervention by Lexus UK, the cost quoted to fit a new fuel pump is a jaw-dropping £1700. I like my IS250 a lot but even as a car with a full network history since new in 2007, £4K would be an ambitious ask for a trade-in once repaired. 

Does any of the experts here have any thoughts on how I might proceed?

[madasahatter]

I would fit it myself, where do Lexus get there prices from.

[MartinH]

I can build racing bicycles no problem, but I have not laid a spanner on a car since I owned a Morris Minor, so that's a non-starter I'm afraid. Do you happen to know the cost of the fuel pump as a detached part? That would help me move forward.

Edited August 23, 2020 by MartinH
more info

[J Henderson]

https://www.clublexus.com/how-tos/a/lexus-is-how-to-replace-fuel-pump-362364

Job doesn't look difficult enough to justify a £1700 bill.
I would definitely source the part yourself and either DIY, or get an indie garage, a friend or whatever to swap in the new pump.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[Herbie]

Unless you're intending to keep the car until it achieves 'classic' status, why on earth would you take such an old car to the main dealers for work?

It's a 13-year old car that needs a new fuel pump; a job well within the capabilities of any garage or mechanic, let alone even an independent Lexus specialist, at far far better rates than the main dealers.

Lexus labour rates are about £125-£130 + VAT per hour! My local trusted garage charges around £45-£50 per hour.

At that age, stamps in the book are meaningless and wouldn't improve the trade in/sale value at all.

[madasahatter]

Well said Herbie could not agree with you more.

[MartinH]

'Hindsight is 20/20 vision!' The car had to go to the main agent to determine the problem — the very good independent man who used to look after my Toyota group cars retired several years ago. And to be fair, the main agent's price for routine servicing is not excessive, and their location is convenient.

The main agent has now earned their stated fee for problem determination, but of course the car is immobilized at their premises so would have to be trailered on to another, less-costly (and unproven) mechanic to get the repair done at a lower cost. And in consequence I would also forego the 50% rebate on the agent's problem-determination charge that's conditional on placing the repair work with them.

Regardless, I am grateful to J Henderson for the ref to the 'how-to' discussion. Armed with the facts, I am in a better position to negotiate a better price to get the car repaired where it is now. Going forward, I shall certainly look around for a less costly garage to maintain it. If anyone has a recommendation in north-west London, I should be pleased to hear it!

[Texas]

If these pumps are as reliable as the lead tech quotes then why not consider a used one from a broken car? Much less ££££’s I defiantly would go that way with my 13 year old car! But dealer won’t want to fit used parts though.

[Texas]

Gotta ask OP, do you normally have at least 1/3 of a tank of fuel in you car as I have been told that running a car ( with an In Tank Electric fuel pump) with less than this can cause pump problems as the pump is cooled and indeed lubricated by the actual fuel in the tank and if continually low then This may not happen!

[MartinH]

As you say, main agent will not fit used part and in any case the retail cost of new component is just over £300 (see here), so not an issue. It is hard to see where the rest of the quoted cost to fit comes from. As to running on empty, the tank is filled and run to nearly empty before re-filling.

[Beamish]

Hi Martin,

Did the dealer confirm that the failure is in the in-tank electric fuel pump?  Perhaps the failure is with the engine driven high pressure injection pump ( 23100-39617 for my car ) which would indeed be very unusual.     I imagine that this pump would be a multiple of the cost of the electric pump and would possibly explain the very high cost of replacement though the job of fitting a new pump should not be too involved. If this turns out to be the situation it may well be worth your while sourcing a used pump and having it fitted by a trusted independent.

Dec.

[MartinH]

That is interesting intelligence, Declan. And yes, for sure that would be a lot costlier than the fuel pump in the tank. Replacing the latter is straightforward, if tedious. But at the expert rate charged by the Lexus agent, that should take no more than a couple of hours. It's not as if these cars are a new and unknown quantity. Their expertise is what you pay top dollar for!

[MartinH]

Turns out Declan is in the right of it. It is the high-pressure engine-driven fuel pump that has failed — hence the very high cost quoted to repair. However this story has an unexpected and cheerful twist by way of an ending. The lead tech at Edgware Road told me that Lexus UK has a program where in exceptional circumstances, and in order to protect its reputation is a vendor of reliable cars, it may make a contribution to mitigate the cost of repairing older vehicles. He proposed my car for this scheme and to my astonishment, Lexus UK has given it the nod. This reduces my bill by something over £900, so as you can imagine, I am a happy customer! The expenditure is still not trivial, but I am delighted that this very nice old V6 of mine will live on. Accordingly, I will publish a picture of it, on tour in Brittany...

 

[Hadrian]

12 hours ago, Texas said:

If these pumps are as reliable as the lead tech quotes then why not consider a used one from a broken car? Much less ££££’s I defiantly would go that way with my 13 year old car! But dealer won’t want to fit used parts though.

Some years ago I had a whine develop at the rear end of my Honda Accord, diagnosed as the fuel pump as that was

the only mechanical item that could make a noise. I sourced one from a breakers and had a mechanic friend fit it.  The problem

was probably caused by me rarely filling the tank more than about a third full, as it didn't get used a lot.

[Ishaq]

Hi, I use an independent Lexus Technician who used to work for Lexus Woodford but set-up his own place in Hainault. 

He has been looking after my Lexus IS250 for the past 8 years and is very reliable, affordable and offers an appointment based system, so only works on your car. In fact I am booked in next week for service, pad all round and rear brake discs. I picked up the parts off ECP (Ebay) as they had 20% off plus the prices are a lot cheaper that their own website. The labour is £140

Give him a call if you like and find out what he says.

Name: Dan

Contact: 07878 018 732

Say Ishaq recommended you via Lexus Club as he promised to give us members a discount.

Good luck

[MartinH]

Thank you Ishaq! I used to have our car (Toyotas before the Lexus) maintained by a chap in Kingsbury, whose day job was as a Lexus tech. He was very thorough, and knew stuff about the cars that was not even on the manufacturer's service schedule. But he has retired, more's the pity!

I'm not out of the woods yet because my IS250 has been diagnosed with the need of a new high-pressure fuel rail in addition to the fuel pump, and as you can imagine these parts, even with a significant subvention from Lexus UK, are very costly.

[Jez. W]

Sounds like they are throwing parts at it as they are not quite sure what is wrong. Really unlikely to be more than one thing, and rare for even one of these items to go wrong.... Would be really bad luck.

[Jez. W]

1 minute ago, Jez. W said:

Sounds like they are throwing parts at it as they are not quite sure what is wrong. Really unlikely to be more than one thing, and rare for even one of these items to go wrong.... Would be really bad luck.

Unless it has all been damaged somehow? 

[Shahpor]

2 hours ago, MartinH said:

Thank you Ishaq! I used to have our car (Toyotas before the Lexus) maintained by a chap in Kingsbury, whose day job was as a Lexus tech.

Huh, small world - I'm from Kingsbury and my mum and brother still live there.

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, MartinH said:

I'm not out of the woods yet because my IS250 has been diagnosed with the need of a new high-pressure fuel rail in addition to the fuel pump, and as you can imagine these parts, even with a significant subvention from Lexus UK, are very costly.

If it is rail 1 with the sensor built in then that is an expensive part, not £1200+ that the pump is but still an £800 part. Rail 2 is £200 but that isn't much more than a hollow tube so cannot see how that fails.

https://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/parts/lexus-is/lexus-is-phase-ii-2006-2013/lexus-is-2-engine-service-kits/lexus-is-phase-2-bank-1-fuel-rail/

https://www.lexuspartsdirect.co.uk/parts/lexus-is/lexus-is-phase-ii-2006-2013/lexus-is-2-engine-service-kits/lexus-is-phase-2-bank-2-fuel-rail/

 

Better off getting a complete engine from a breakers and swapping the parts if they are unwilling to strip down the parts.

[MartinH]

This has turned into a long-running saga, with the car still off the road 8 weeks later. After discussions with the techs in Tokyo, the diagnosis is that the ECU/immobilizer is borked and all will have to be replaced. But for the intervention of Lexus UK to mitigate cost of parts supplied, repair would have exceeded the market value of the car. It's still a marginal call, but a replacement — IS300 Premiers seem to fetch strong money — was more than I wanted to spend. I even evaluated the new Toyota Yaris with zero % finance. But £24K for a Fiesta-class car? Nah.

[steve2006]

So a Lexus dealer with every piece of Toyota diagnostic equipment and “Special Tool” in their tool cabinet have gone from a faulty high pressure fuel pump failure to  a fuel rail failure to the immobiliser ECU failure and it took them 8 weeks and a call to Japan to get this far.

Add to this that most of the official Service manuals have diagnostic flowcharts and even mine at 26 years old has a link to power the fuel pump bypassing the safety systems for testing.

It would by now have passed my “fixed by” date and I would be asking some serious competency questions and getting that transporter booked.

Pretty pleased mine only needs a reshaped paper clip and a service manual for diagnostics.

[MartinH]

Well that is one view of it I guess Steve

[Texas]

Like I have said before, a workshop can have the latest Gucci electronic diagnostic super duper kit but unless anyone there knows how to Really use and interpret the findings then it ain’t much use to you the paying customer with an elusive problem! But you will prob be paying for it ( the latest equipment available!) in the bill!

[MartinH]

A new brain arrived from Japan and after connecting it to the rest of the autonomous nervous system, the techs were able to start the car, hallelujah! They must be sick of the sight of the thing blocking one of their service bays since August. Now they have to drive it around a bit to make sure it actually does, you know, work. So quite soon I shall be driving the IS250 again. I had quite got used to schlepping around in the CT200 loaner, thankfully provided foc. The first shock was having to pay the VED to put it back on the road so they can do test driving. But that is as nothing compared to the final repair bill which, to judge by the prices bandied around on this forum, will be around the cost of buying a complete car of comparable vintage. If I had known then what I know now, would I have abandoned it and gone off to Toyota for a new Yaris? Maybe. We live and learn.