Pistonheads topic - "Most unreliable car you've owned"

dutchie01 · August 12, 2020

28 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Astonishing isn't it? During the same round of dealer visits as the Merc and Volvo I called at the local Audi dealership, enquired about a test drive and was asked if I'd bought a car from them before. My face didn't betray the Anglo Saxon in my head but I turned on my heels and walked out. Incidentally the same dealer chain as Mercedes.

Now I stick to my £850 Saab, £500 Lexus and £1000 Volvo. I also take great pleasure parking them right outside the showrooms if I have to visit for any reason.

this seems universal doesnt it, the sheer arrogance of the salespeople, and the limited knowledge they have.. I once asked about the weight difference between a 250 GS and IS and they had no clue. Mind you this was 6 years ago with only 4 (!) models in the showroom. How difficult can it be to know the product you are trying to sell!

royoftherovers · August 12, 2020

20 years ago I wanted a Toyota Yaris. We had a caravan in remote North Wales, so Margaret and I went into the local Toyota Dealer and enquired. I was greeted by a smiling chap who just happened to own the Dealership and to run it with his wife. The garage facilities were staffed by local people.

He had just what we wanted in the showroom, so he moved several cars to extricate it and literally threw me the keys."Take it out go anywhere, there`s petrol in it and bring it back when you are ready."

I was astounded.He had not met or seen me previously and did not want me to deposit anything with him. I obviously had one of those faces or he was not a businessman. I insisted that he keep the keys to the Merc we had and off we went.

I placed an order immediately upon my return and the Yaris is currently in Scotland being run by our eldest daughter!

Lat week,we returned to the same garage,test drove a Yaris which they had sold x years ago to a local resident and which had been part-ex`d. It was still being run by the same owner and the same wife and the new premises had new garage facilities and was still staffed by local people.They had sold it and serviced it and they proudly produced the Handbook and Service book for inspection.They offered an unconditional 12 month guarantee and a new M.O.T. Certificate notwithstanding the fact that the last one had only been completed just prior to Lockdown. The facilities were full of new and old cars and his order book was blooming. Yes, they were business people indeed and could knock spots off most if not all so called Dealerships of any marque.

A real pleasure to do business with such people. A rare gem amongst crooks!

Would I buy a used car from them? I JUST DID !

Thackeray · August 12, 2020

3 hours ago, rich1068 said:

Astonishing isn't it? During the same round of dealer visits as the Merc and Volvo I called at the local Audi dealership, enquired about a test drive and was asked if I'd bought a car from them before. My face didn't betray the Anglo Saxon in my head but I turned on my heels and walked out. Incidentally the same dealer chain as Mercedes.

It is absolutely astonishing! Do the bosses of these companies not understand that everyone is a potential buyer for a good salesman?

I had a very similar experience when planning a new company car purchase in the 1990s. I was comparing various cars including Audi and Volvo. I went into the local Audi showroom - quite busy - a number of people browsing around. I stood there for a while. Sales staff all busy deciding who was a genuine buyer and who was a time-waster. Clearly I was wearing the wrong type of clothes or didn't look like an Audi buyer in some other way. Other potential buyers got lots of attention. But they didn't bother with the courtesy of asking if they could help me. Eventually, I asked if they could help me but they were still too busy.

Guess what. I left the Audi showroom without even getting close to the cars and I've never been in an Audi showroom since. Take note, head of Audi UK sales. Every one of your staff is an ambassador for the brand. The behaviour of the staff in this one showroom has ruled out any sales to me in any showroom in the country, probably forever.

I'm sure Audis are nice cars in many ways with some excellent design features. But when my initial impression is negative, it only needs another report of average German reliability or of billion dollar fines for cheating the official tests to reinforce the view that my initial negative impression is still correct.

royoftherovers · August 12, 2020

39 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

It is absolutely astonishing! Do the bosses of these companies not understand that everyone is a potential buyer for a good salesman?

I had a very similar experience when planning a new company car purchase in the 1990s. I was comparing various cars including Audi and Volvo. I went into the local Audi showroom - quite busy - a number of people browsing around. I stood there for a while. Sales staff all busy deciding who was a genuine buyer and who was a time-waster. Clearly I was wearing the wrong type of clothes or didn't look like an Audi buyer in some other way. Other potential buyers got lots of attention. But they didn't bother with the courtesy of asking if they could help me. Eventually, I asked if they could help me but they were still too busy.

Guess what. I left the Audi showroom without even getting close to the cars and I've never been in an Audi showroom since. Take note, head of Audi UK sales. Every one of your staff is an ambassador for the brand. The behaviour of the staff in this one showroom has ruled out any sales to me in any showroom in the country, probably forever.

I'm sure Audis are nice cars in many ways with some excellent design features. But when my initial impression is negative, it only needs another report of average German reliability or of billion dollar fines for cheating the official tests to reinforce the view that my initial negative impression is still correct.

Top bosses are only interested in Corporate Sales, not domestic. Corporate Sales deliver big bonuses.

Mercedes, Porsche are 2 more examples of cheat engines.

Mincey · August 12, 2020

I remember when I first went to look at an IS200 at Marshalls in Cambridge. They were a bit of a shower frankly. I stood looking at it for about half an hour before the salesman decided I wasn't going away. He wouldn't let me take it for a test drive there and then, making me come back the next day to drive the same car. I got the figures for the trade in and took them away to have a think. By luck I was doing some consultancy for Automotive Leasing at the time and the chap I was working for said he'd get me a better deal which he did. The car still came from Marshalls sadly. There were several hiccups along the way with Marshalls - no courtesy car at the first service, then it was taken in for a mat recall, and the carpets ended up needing to be changed. Their driver drove the car back to Peterborough with the front seat not tightened down and the passenger headrest on the parcel shelf. A complaint to head office got a free next service. I then switched to Lexus Leicester and everything has been fine and dandy since.

Barry14UK · August 12, 2020

It's obvious really, but as cars gain all the extras we like and all the components and systems designed to extract a few extra mpg, more performance and to meet evermore stringent emission targets, there is more to go wrong. Also cars these days often include parts from countries where these can be cheaply sourced. Just about every car will develop a fault(s) if kept long enough and even with models that are generally considered reliable there will be a 'rogue' few where their owners may think that their model of car is unreliable. Some models have acquired a reputation for having one or more particular faults. BMW in particular has come in for a lot of criticism and there are well known problems with for example the cooling system (which can be largely preempted by replacing parts as part of a maintenance schedule.) Control arms, drop links and suspension bushes also need earlier replacement than expected and the membrane seals in the doors can fail in a few years causing water ingress. Also, the plastic adjusters in the 'Hella' headlights fail over time causing the lights to dance and become a MOT failure. They have a few other issues but In other respects, I don't think they are any more unreliable than other marques and I have had 4 and still have one now. They are comfortable, handle and brake well and are well finished. The interior of my 2001 E39 doesn't have all the hard area of plastic found in my Premium 2015 RX450h.

Incidentally, I had a 2.5L V6 Camry for a few years some time ago and although it was a nice car, it needed head gaskets, radiator, recon drive shafts, suspension bushes, boot hinges and a few other sundry parts. It had a lightweight feel about it like a twang when closing a door compared to my BMW or Mercedes that had safelike doors by comparison. Also, an electrical problem which needed a lot of investigating was sorted when auto electricians eventually found the problem when they opened up a main harness wherein very unusually there was a broken wire. I think this car along with a couple of Fiat cars got my vote for being the most problematical.

My least troublesome car was my 1958 Morris Minor 1000 which once needed a touch with some wet and dry to the points in the petrol pump. It was a slug but gave circa 40mpg but began to use too much oil, possibly because I thrashed it from cold each morning to the station and because oils and metallurgy were not so good then. This car was replaced with an MG ZB Varitone which was reliable, only needing a wheel cylinder replaced during several years of ownership and also some work done on the sills. After this was done, I sprayed it mid blue in my garage and kept it until at high miles the teeth wore on the starter ring due to starter throwing in at same position every time car started causing it to jam and need to free with spanner. These were the days of spark plugs, points and condenser, oil and filters and some grease nipples; little to go wrong, hand wound door glass, no switches and relays there and without all the complications of modern car electrics generally.

The Italian cars I had all suffered quite severely from rust as well as other problems. I liked the look of the Alfa Stervio but there are questions about build quality already yet alone in the long term.

All my other cars needed something doing aside from regular maintenance. Probably the best was a W124 Mercedes coupe which only needed a partial under bonnet cable harness - well known fault I was told with heat destroying the insulation causing misfire on the former eastern block sourced harness. The car felt like it was hewn out of rock but was rather bargelike compared to the BMW's that followed.

dutchie01 · August 12, 2020

I think there is a massive difference between the shiny dealer palaces and the local village garage. The latter is build on trust only. The owner knows you and you know the owner The garage plays a role in local society and has a reputation build on years, you see each other in the pub. I bought my daughters first car from Peters Garage, without a testdrive as i trust Peter. it was a Suzuki Swift for 1500 euros and it took her through uni.

On the other side of the spectrum are the dealers of premium brands. Their entire business is directed from the factory directly. A big handbook of how the building must look like, how many m2, how many cars to shift by model etc. even the clothes of the salespeople are laid down in directives from munich stuttgart etc. The investments are enormous, the overhead frightening and they all struggle to be profitable. They are run like insurance companies and if they dont get the end year bonuses they are in the red. Life is difficult as main dealer we should not forget that but in my experience in lots of cases it can go horribly wrong on the showroom floor. Customer first seems to be a marketingslogan only.....

dutchie01 · August 12, 2020

I forgot the worst of them all. Not measured by reliability as it never ever broke down even if i deliberately tried. A brandnew 1994 Ford Mondeo diesel with 90 hp.. Companycar of course. Everything on that car was mediocre, the styling utterly bland, the interior design uninspiring, te buildquality questionnable but it never ever broke down, drove 120000 rattling kilometers with it, the last 20k km shortshifting without clutch but it would not die. Roadholding was on the brink of dangerous. It was so nose heavy understeer was everywhere in every corner. The most serious part was sudden death understeer, without warning you loose all grip and the car just plows straight on. I hated that car. It followed my alfas that DID break down a lot but there was design, passion ( and underfunded development..). All my alfas were anything but bland there was a philosophy behind them ( 1 look good 2 make lots of noise 3 red paint 4 that ll do it). the mondeo had neither it was designed by accountants. And that brings me to Lexus. When i got my IS250 i was blown away with the build quality, The NVH, the attention to detail, the over engineering, for me that was a different world. The IS300H was already different as i had the idea there was more toyota than lexus in it but is still liked it very much however it just wasnt thesame as the 250. Todays cars seem one step further again withe the ES as prime example of a worked over toyota, make it into a lexus type of thing. Reminds me a bit of Audi/VW 15 years ago. In every Audi you could see VW shine through. Maybe it is toyota going upmarket and approaching Lexus but i really feel Lexus should up its game to preserve its image. Anyway, just a thought.

olliesgrandad · August 12, 2020

13 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Mercedes Dealers are hardly shining lights Les. In fact Mercedes Dealerships have been responsible for the growth in Mercedes Indies !

I know I used to get mine serviced by Robin Lamb in Gloucester. Steve Winwood and Richard Ashcroft both use him rather than the Main Dealer. Great guy who I knew from when I dealt with M J Warner in Gloucester before Mercedes booted out the decent local dealers around 2002

PCM · August 13, 2020

That's why I like Japex in Kings Langley.

Same management, same staff, same reception.

They know me and they know our cars and I trust them 100%.

Hadrian · August 13, 2020

How far do you want to go back ?

I had a Mk3 Cortina which had one fault after another, as well as the rust which was usual for most cars of that period.

The Volvo 340 wasn't much better. Lots of distributor related problems.

I've only had one car break down on me. An Audi 80 where the earth strap corroded through on the Alternator,

and the Battery went flat.

I had a nice Lancia Beta 1300cc. Lovely to drive and very comfortable. It had a big attack of the wire worm and

the clutch started slipping, so that had to go.

Before the Lexus I had three Hondas, no major problems with any of them.

Britprius · August 13, 2020

My most unreliable car was an MGA 1600 twin cam. It was so bad that it rarely covered a round trip of 60 miles without some problem. When it was running it was great fun to drive, but I always carried tools, and an assortment of spare parts "points, condenser, rotor arm, distributor cap, and many more" so that in the inevitable breakdown I could fix it on the side of the road.

The strange thing is I followed it with an MGBGT, and that was very reliable having upgraded the ignition system with a Lucas contactless system with a sports coil. This produced such a strong spark that I could remove the side electrode on the spark plugs, and the car still ran perfectly well.

John.

Barry14UK · August 13, 2020

Setting aside company cars, because these are often secured on special terms and the driver may be limited in choice by price, model or status in the firm, most drivers are just interested in the car as a means of getting from A to B. They like to think they are getting a good deal and it is helpful to have plenty of dealers around the country with preferably one not too far from where they live and one that is pretty reliable. Leasing has had an increasing impact on the market and this may have encouraged many to go for perceived up market cars in some cases for image. Certainly there are many more up market German cars on the roads nowadays, particularly these premium markers offer more smaller/less expensive models nowadays. It is important that the cars are reliable and service facilities are good. They have to accept that an image enhancing Mercedes is going to cost them more initially and for servicing than say for a Vauxhall or Peugeot.

Then there are car enthusiasts, those who are regularly on car forums or wider ones as Piston Heads. Maybe such folk are a bit more forgiving of a car's quirks and it being somewhat less reliable if it offers something special or is endearing in another way . Spares may not be so readily available and dealers fewer and further away. I suppose the ideal is to have a reliable 'bread and butter' car for every day use and something that is an indulgence to maybe tinker with or take out on special occasions. Not everybody can do this of course. I met a guy once who had his own firm and had several Italian exotic cars but did most of his motoring in a Ford Escort as it was his most reliable car. Then there are guys like a neighbour of mine who also runs a bog standard Ford but also a now Classic Morris Minor to tinker with and use occasionally.

Maybe with Lexus we have a car that is reliable and a bit out of the ordinary, accepting that servicing at main dealers is going to be expensive and for many may require travelling quite some way.

rayaans · August 13, 2020

My son has had 3 German cars now

Fortunately, all of them have been relatively OK

1) 2006 Polo 1.4 petrol with 47k on the clock when bought at £2700 - radiator leak at around 55k - fixed for £200.

2) 2008 Golf 1.4 TSI with 63k on the clock when bought - obviously an undeclared accident damage car as some panel gaps were a bit big and the paint was ridiculously swirl free and polished to perfection presumably by a detailer before sale but was cheap at £3400. Whoever repaired it missed a seal in the drivers door window costing £10 which i did myself. Car itself needed only a new ABS pump, very common on these at a cost of £300 altogether. Took a remap very well with no issues at all too.

3) 2015 W204 C180 Coupe - 57k on the clock - currently on 74k with no mechanical issues and is running a remap and K&N filters. Panoramic sunroof sticking so Merc replaced everything no questions asked under warranty. Honestly, my son thinks it broke because of him. He opened it accidently with the key on a frosty morning and it made a cracking sound so Im surprised. Merc Grimsby were very good in all honesty, up to Lexus standards for sure.

Either way, the german cars havent been too bad to him at all

Irish ISF · August 15, 2020

My car history:

1. Volvo s40 1.8 GDI. Had it from 96000-195000 miles. Flawless. Aside from an air mass metre and the most tapety engine around it was a great car. It had stints for so many members of my family. It still lives I believe as a courtesy car for a small garage.

2. Alfa 156 TI 1.7 twin spark. Bought it with 50 or 60k miles on it and sold it about a year later. No problems at all, just needed to keep the oil topped up by 500ml every 2000miles. One of my favorites!

3. Subaru Forester XT 2.5. bought at 110,000 miles but with a huge service history and one owner. Head gasket went about 8,000 miles later. Crap engine, it happens to all of them. Sold it at auction for 1/5th of what I paid for it.

4. Alfa Romeo 159 TI 2.2 JTS. Had it for 6 months with no problems but the guy who had it before had timing chain issues which again are common with that crappy Opel engine.

5. 2016 Ford Fiesta ST. Bought with 3,000 miles and sold with 13,000. No problems.

6. Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6. Bought with 16,000 miles on the clock and sold at 21k. Totally flawless car for 20 years old. In concourse condition. Stunning machine.

7. Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 - 1998. Bought for €900 5 years ago. I've spent a lot of money restoring it but it has actually been incredibly reliable and I could have driven it as is. It's never once let me down in 20,000 miles. Wishbones go very quickly in it though and the exhaust had to be replaced...with something very loud obviously. The interior is very rattly and squeaky though although everything works fine.

7. Lexus ISF - I've had it since January and the only thing it needs so far is an exhaust manifold. Build quality is exceptional although it does have a small rattle or two.

All in all the Subaru is the only one that has been an unqualified disaster. They aren't worth the risk imo as the repair bills are very high. Alfas have been great in my experience and I would have zero hesitation getting another.

Sent from my Lenovo P2a42 using Tapatalk

PCM · August 15, 2020

On 8/12/2020 at 9:32 AM, PCM said:

Ford MK 4 Cortina - would randomly stall.

Ford Sierra - No first gear and no 'block' from 5th to Reverse.

Ford Granada - would randomly rev really fast, when in neutral.

Apart from that, they were great 😂

And ... a Ford Fiesta XR2 - liked it a lot... until the head gasket went.

And ... a Ford Mondeo Ghia - liked it a lot... until the front bumper detached.

royoftherovers · August 15, 2020

5 hours ago, PCM said:

And ... a Ford Fiesta XR2 - liked it a lot... until the head gasket went.

And ... a Ford Mondeo Ghia - liked it a lot... until the front bumper detached.

You have just reminded me Piers of a song we used to sing in the back of the Shara returning home from cub camp......

"oh,you never go to Heaven, in an old FORD CAR, COS AN OLD FORD CAR WON`T GET YOU THAT FAR!!"