Brake warping

[Barry14UK]

Manufacturers don't sell their cars with screeching brakes and provided genuine replacements are fitted and correctly lubed as recommended, and all not replaced parts are in good order, it should not be necessary to resort to fitting non original parts.  Certainly, manufacturers mostly fit calipers and the like from specialist suppliers and indeed there are some  very different designs.   I remember that on my old 2.5 V6 Camry there were anti rattle springs, the ends of which had to be located in the edge of the pads to help keep the pads away from the discs for example (possibly the case with other Toyota  cars).   Some pads come with an antirattle/antisqueal material preapplied while other have interposed shims that have to be lubricated. Some pads house an insulated sensor which when worn down allows the metal part then in contact to make an electrical connection bringing up a warning light while others when worn allow contact with a a softer metal that does produce a warning screech. This metal component has to be correctly located in the pad if not contained within the supplied pad.  If all the parts are correctly lubricated and fitted I don't follow how applying extra cut out material is going to make a difference if the screeching occurs when the brakes are off.

One way to help detect a sticking caliper is to drive the car some distance.  Then, taking care not to burn yourself, feel nearer the center of the wheels to check whether one is noticeably hotter.

It should not be difficult for a competent person to determine where the problem lies.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[johnatg]

Agree with all that. Problem lies with the competence of mechanics - I don't have much faith even in the competence of dealer 'mechanics'. These days they tend to be just fitters - swap out suspect parts (often assemblies) and bolt in a new one. Except when it costs them because it's a warranty job so they make a fuss about it.

[RgrWynne]

1 hour ago, johnatg said:

Agree with all that. Problem lies with the competence of mechanics - I don't have much faith even in the competence of dealer 'mechanics'. These days they tend to be just fitters - swap out suspect parts (often assemblies) and bolt in a new one. Except when it costs them because it's a warranty job so they make a fuss about it.

I agree with that, except of course as you also agree, if original parts are fitted in the correct manner you would expect all to be well. That is how all ‘dealer mechanics ‘ work and I would suggest the problems you hear about are less than 1% of the total .

[Shahpor]

3 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

One way to help detect a sticking caliper is to drive the car some distance.  Then, taking care not to burn yourself, feel nearer the center of the wheels to check whether one is noticeably hotter.

I did this and there appeared to be no discernible difference, so I assumed the caliper wasn't sticking. 

[Barry14UK]

What I find particularly perplexing is what you say about the screeching occurring now with the brakes off.  I only ever had this with a stone caught up between the disc and the backplate/dust shield or on another occasion where the discs had been so worn and undercut by pads that metal on the pads was rubbing on a small peripheral area of the disc before the brake material could make contact.  (A distorted backplate/dust shield could be another reason if disc was rubbing against it). Without garage lifting and other facilities and good knowledge of how to go about sorting this you are in the hands of a competent mechanic.  Being a hybrid adds to the complication of checking with discs turning and jacked up as you seem to have an unexpected problem which looks not to be obvious.       

[Shahpor]

Exactly that Barry - I have had the squealing when applying the brakes before but never when I am just driving around like now.

Perhaps it will go away all by itself like my juddering appears to...

 

[m4rkw]

I had my brakes done recently at a Toyota/Lexus specialist and they recommended brembo brakes over OEM as they're of similar quality but have a much better warranty, two years I think, and according to them warranty issues are much easier to deal with than with Lexus.

[Vlady]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:42 PM, m4rkw said:

I had my brakes done recently at a Toyota/Lexus specialist and they recommended Brembo brakes over OEM as they're of similar quality but have a much better warranty, two years I think, and according to them warranty issues are much easier to deal with than with Lexus.

Mark, does brembo do brake discs for Lexus GS450h Premier which has different/bigger brakes than even an GS F-Sport if I am not mistaken.

When I had the same issue with brakes last year I struggled to find anyone to supply non-OEM brakes for my Premier model so it would be great to know if brembo has them.

[m4rkw]

@Vlady https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/en/catalogue/lexus-gs-l1-450h-gwl10/000054903-1

[Vlady]

@Shahpor hi, how is it going? What is the latest on your brakes?

[Chris111]

On 8/30/2020 at 7:48 AM, m4rkw said:

@Vlady https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/en/catalogue/lexus-gs-l1-450h-gwl10/000054903-1

The brake disc sizes for the GS 450h Luxury are 334x30mm front and 310x18mm rear. For the F Sport and Premier models the sizes are 356x30mm front and 310x22mm rear. From this link it looks like brembo only sell the rear disc for the Luxury model.

[Jez. W]

On 7/29/2020 at 7:39 AM, NemesisUK said:

I would get brake judder after a lot of town driving, in my CLS55 but this disappeared after a couple of high speed stops. 

The most common cause of brake judder is not ensuring that the disc to hub interface is spotlessly clean when replacing the discs. Just the smallest spec of rust and crud can throw the disc out and after a period of use cause judder or more descriptively, a pulsing on application.

I had a similar problem. It was a bad set of front discs from lexus that was the problem. The first pair of new discs and pads they fitted previously they insisted on skimming when I returned with the problem. They were quite new, and had only done 1500 miles since fitting by them. I didn't want skimmed discs as it makes them thinner and takes life out of them and the warp imperfection in the disc is still there, it is just flattened at the disc surface. I agreed to it  reluctantly though as I knew it would probably not fix it and they said I could bring it back. Then after 1500 miles sure enough the juddering came back, but also with brake fade and pulsing on the pedal. So they agreed to fit another set of new discs and pads for free and it was perfect after this. The very original set of discs and pads the car had from new had just worn out, but there was never any juddering or anything so I knew it was probably bad replacement discs that they had fitted. Everything was fitted by Lexus so I'm sure they clean the hubs up perfectly etc. They did say they have had bad batches of lexus brembo discs before with this problem. Anyway it cured it permanently.

By the way I don't hold my car on the brakes after getting the brakes hot. I stop short and slightly keep rolling or go into neutral and use handbrake if I have to. 

[Shahpor]

Hi Vlad,

Believe it or not, the brakes have just about fixed themselves!  I am getting little to no juddering now and I haven't done anything to them other than trying not to hold the brakes after a heavy stop.

Now, as I mentioned in another thread, if I could just get them to stop squealing whilst driving down the motorway, I would be happy

How is yours doing?

[Shahpor]

1 hour ago, Chris111 said:

The brake disc sizes for the GS 450h Luxury are 334x30mm front and 310x18mm rear. For the F Sport and Premier models the sizes are 356x30mm front and 310x22mm rear. From this link it looks like Brembo only sell the rear disc for the Luxury model.

It is annoying that you can only get aftermarket brakes for the smaller sizes.

[Vlady]

Was our LOC hacked? A lot of threads which are not on English, weird!

12 hours ago, Shahpor said:

It is annoying that you can only get aftermarket brakes for the smaller sizes.

I totally agree, it would be nice to have at least one other option in UK to go to apart from OEM!

 

13 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Hi Vlad,

Believe it or not, the brakes have just about fixed themselves!  I am getting little to no juddering now and I haven't done anything to them other than trying not to hold the brakes after a heavy stop.

Now, as I mentioned in another thread, if I could just get them to stop squealing whilst driving down the motorway, I would be happy

How is yours doing?

Thats good to hear @Shahpor, I do not drive mine often nowadays, last couple of weeks were mostly school run and shops. Brake wise, sometimes I do have a little vibration sometimes I don't. I booked an MOT this Friday, will see if Lexus Glasgow has any comments on brakes, I doubt they will though. I am going to ask how much it will be to buy new front discs and pads but don't expect it to be a bargain. The plan this weekend is to remove the wheels, clean them, protect them with PoorBoys and check the brakes (if it needs to be lubricated), last time I disassembled them (rear ones, front were fine) was about 6 months ago so before winter comes I better do it again.

I've read about your squealing issue, I would think it is a wee stone got jammed between  the rotor and heat plate at the back but it could be another things I guess.

Well, I am glad yours is working fine now!

[ColinBarber]

35 minutes ago, Vlady said:

Was our LOC hacked? A lot of threads which are not on English, weird!

Not hacked, just a spammer registered for an account and started posting - all gone now.

[Vlady]

@ColinBarber thank you for taking care of it!

[Shahpor]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 8:15 AM, Vlady said:

Was our LOC hacked? A lot of threads which are not on English, weird!

I totally agree, it would be nice to have at least one other option in UK to go to apart from OEM!

 

Thats good to hear @Shahpor, I do not drive mine often nowadays, last couple of weeks were mostly school run and shops. Brake wise, sometimes I do have a little vibration sometimes I don't. I booked an MOT this Friday, will see if Lexus Glasgow has any comments on brakes, I doubt they will though. I am going to ask how much it will be to buy new front discs and pads but don't expect it to be a bargain. The plan this weekend is to remove the wheels, clean them, protect them with PoorBoys and check the brakes (if it needs to be lubricated), last time I disassembled them (rear ones, front were fine) was about 6 months ago so before winter comes I better do it again.

I've read about your squealing issue, I would think it is a wee stone got jammed between  the rotor and heat plate at the back but it could be another things I guess.

Well, I am glad yours is working fine now!

Thanks Vlad

If you feel like a trip down south, Lexus Reading are still saying front discs and pads fitted for £345

Yeah, I need to have a good look around the front brakes but the problem (apart from the weather) is that I am too lazy...

[Vlady]

9 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Thanks Vlad

If you feel like a trip down south, Lexus Reading are still saying front discs and pads fitted for £345

Yeah, I need to have a good look around the front brakes but the problem (apart from the weather) is that I am too lazy...

£345? Hmm, If without labour, just the parts, it would cost about £250 then I would seriously consider to change them, I mentioned before, it is really easy, saying that, I am lazy too, I need to remove 4 wheels on Lexus (one by one), clear and lubricate the brakes and the alloys before the winter (or at least check the condition of sliding pins etc) and the main thing I need to do is to swap summer to winter wheels on my wife's car, hoping to do that all over weekend! Shorter days, colder days are not helping! 🙂

[flookyk]

My dad used to skim brake discs for a local garage years ago, at the time that garages repaired faults rather than just replaced parts.

The discs he would skim were ones that had got pitted ands would still be within manufacturer limits but he would never skim a disc that had warped.

He actually made a brake disc for a motorbike from an old man hole cover that the owner gave him one time.

We were always taught never to hold the car on the brakes when stopped but put it in neutral and handbrake onto stop the heat transfer from warping the disc, but the majority of cars we owned then were manual rather than automatics.

i would have thought that brake discs these days though were better made than back then and made out of more resilient metals, ventilated etc. 

[Vlady]

On 10/16/2020 at 8:24 AM, flookyk said:

i would have thought that brake discs these days though were better made than back then and made out of more resilient metals, ventilated etc. 

Especially on Japanese car and on brand like Lexus! But nope, seems like it is common issue on GS.

[Vlady]

On 10/16/2020 at 6:31 AM, Vlady said:

£345? Hmm, If without labour, just the parts, it would cost about £250 then I would seriously consider to change them, I mentioned before, it is really easy, saying that, I am lazy too, I need to remove 4 wheels on Lexus (one by one), clear and lubricate the brakes and the alloys before the winter (or at least check the condition of sliding pins etc) and the main thing I need to do is to swap summer to winter wheels on my wife's car, hoping to do that all over weekend! Shorter days, colder days are not helping! 🙂

All the above done! 🙂 Well, apart from buying a new discs and pads, still waiting for a quote from Lexus Glasgow. 😞