IS-F or C63

MerchantOfVenice · July 23, 2020

Dear friends

How is everyone?

So the time has come to buy another v8. I say another because I had a C63 a few years ago but that love affair was short lived due to questionable build quality and random rattles.

I bought a standard IS 250 SEL a year ago and liked it for its comfort. But sold it 6 months later. I do miss it. However it had no power. I know that’s not the intention of that engine...but it dawned on me that I need a v8. Even if I don’t use the power it’s good to know it’s there.

I then began to look at IS-F. Not test driven one yet. But from what I have read it ticks many boxes. Subtle, reliable and a bit different.

But also the C63 has reared it’s head but in 507 form. This is a rare car with engine internals from the SLS. Forged pistons etc. Lighter crank.

When I owned my C63 the noise was tremendous at any speed. The thing bellowed.

I am reading to get a similar experience from the ISF the exhaust would need to be changed as it’s a bit muted?

Also I am reading indifferent things as regard to the ML sound system. Is it identical to the one in the SEL? If so you really had to crank that up.

Is it possible to upgrade the speakers for a higher quality variant?

Has anyone else gone from a C63 to an ISF or vice versa?

Would love to hear opinions.

Many thanks

Toothy · July 23, 2020

You're likely to get a biased opinion in favour of the ISF here. For obvious reasons.
C63 will sound better, the F is more refined. An exhaust will be a little over £1k which would bring them in line.
Running costs and reliability is better with Lexus, as is the rarity.
If you're buying based on sound system, you're looking at the wrong cars. The ML is a decent system, good clarity and balance. But it's not the best I've heard. You'd want to change amp, add a proper sub and probably new head unit to improve. Just changing speakers isn't going to get you very far.

Flytvr · July 23, 2020

I’ve owned an IS-F (and RCF). They are muted. You can stick an aftermarket exhaust on them, but I disliked the associated drone. A C63 of that era wins hands down noise wise. The best part of the Lexus sound track is the induction noise - but you have to be gunning it to make the most of it.

Outside of the noise, the ISF wins on every count in my opinion.

I’m not biased by the way, I drive a 63 (w205)

God luck!

MerchantOfVenice · July 23, 2020

Thanks guys for the replies.

Im definitely not buying the car because of the sound system. I just want it to be the best it can be. Has anyone upgraded the speakers/amp etc?

How do you find you w205? Thats the biturbo right?

Flytvr · July 23, 2020

6 hours ago, MerchantOfVenice said:

Thanks guys for the replies.

Im definitely not buying the car because of the sound system. I just want it to be the best it can be. Has anyone upgraded the speakers/amp etc?

How do you find you w205? Thats the biturbo right?

Yes; baby 4.0 twin turbo.

I miss Lexus build quality. The Merc’s is OK, but Lexus build quality is utterly brilliant.

But on the whole, I like the fact that the 63 provides entertainment at low speeds, whereas I found I had to spank an F car to get enjoyment.

Arth_Vader · July 23, 2020

Hi MoV

i absolutely love the isf but you do have to give it some beans in sports for it to make much noise, 3500-5500 seems to be the sweet spot unless you do the second intake vacuum tweak, then it’s 2000 onwards.

im considering putting an H&S exhaust on mine, which seems to bring the noise Into c63 territory from all accounts. Then you can have fun at all speeds and rpms.

i did this with my 981 Boxster - I put a borla exhaust on it and I have fun at anything above 1100 rpm.

the main downside of this approach is extra insurance cost

AV

Toothy · July 23, 2020

I've got an aftermarket intake and deactivated the flap, it growls a lot more low down!

July 24, 2020

Open flap in engine bay is costing a bit of HP.

Cold air feed is what's needed. Also changes the exhaust a little - less drone.

Toothy · July 24, 2020

Only from heat soak at lower speeds, from what I understand. But in our climate, I dont think that's much of an issue. Happy to be educated otherwise though.

Vinaypatel · July 29, 2020

I came from a C63 W204 to an ISF I wouldn’t look back for one minute once you set the isf up correctly the car is on par with the E92 M3 balance wise.

also my C63 broke and I had a 5k bill to pay I’ve also got a friend who’s ac compressor went out last week and it’s approx 2k to fix on 20,000 miles

the mercs sound great but cornering wise it was terrible as it is very tail happy.

MerchantOfVenice · July 29, 2020

Just curious as to what the 5k bill was for?

Rompy · August 3, 2020

I can add my experiences and views to this thread. I had an early c63 saloon in 2010 and it was a cracker. Fun to drive and a crackling exhaust that was a delight. Sold it 12 months and 25,000 miles later after 4 sets of rear tyres and almost daily visits to the petrol station.
Roll on three years, petrol prices had dropped and the facelift c63 was launched. Bought a coupe c63 with the MCT transmission. Totally different animal. Much more aggressive gear changes with a real bang on the downshift and associated popping and banging from the exhaust. A real pleasure to hammer this car and even in auto it was terrific at screaming changes and boy was it quick to swap cogs. Also the car would block change in manual, ie pull the left hand lever and hold it to change down to the lowest possible gear in one move. Great for approaching roundabouts.
The c63 coupe is the V8 to have if you want to thrash a car to the limit and shred tyres by tea time.
After the c63 we went a45 before back to V8 with a Mustang. Nice sounding but limited on corners and wrong image for us.
Decided to go back for a third c63 and the only way to go was a 507. Narrowed it down to three possibles and off to test drive. Now whether we had remembered things differently or not, but the two we test drove completely underwhelmed us. To be fair they turned out to be tatty and thrashed, and might have stood in the showroom long enough for the learning gearbox to have gone to sleep? Either way, after driving two of these we decided that we needed a different V8.
Currently in a rcf carbon which might well turn out to be a keeper. Build quality and ride are excellent. We don’t often hold onto cars more that 18 months, and that is rapidly coming up. But I’ve just put 2 years warranty on it, so not looking to change for the foreseeable.
But, remember these have a torque converter so you won’t get the hard bang of a MCT when you change gear. The change is more cushioned almost fluid and after 15,000 miles the tyres are still on 5mm. I would be on the third set of rears on a c63.
You’ve got to ask what you want of a V8. Pose - go mustang with borla exhaust. Thrash and get the back out of shape on bends and roundabouts - w204 c63. Refined luxury with a effortless acceleration up to silly speeds - Lexus.
Oh and if you were thinking about the block change issue, it does this in auto, just not in manual. Many reviewers pounced on this as a major problem, I just look ahead and if I weant to overtake rapidly, knock the stick back to auto and floor it. Still can’t shred the tyres, must try harder.
Yes the sat nav is out of the ark, but if you’re worried about anything other than the V8 engine and gearbox, buy something else.

August 4, 2020

Torque converter locks in sport s + manual. If you want that non fluid bump.

I am 95.3 % sure you can queue gear changes in one of the modes. Ie press down twice and it will do 2 downshifts when safe. This has caught me out before when being impatient. Pressed again and it went down another one [emoji51]

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Vinaypatel · August 8, 2020

On 7/29/2020 at 11:50 PM, MerchantOfVenice said:

Just curious as to what the 5k bill was for?

Oil leaking from the block turns out it had a crack in it

Irish ISF · August 10, 2020

One thing I will say is that if you want attention of any sort don't get the ISF. I brought mine to cars and coffee yesterday and not one photographer took a photo of my car. Literally every car around me got snapped but not mine. I asked one why and he said that he thought it was an IS220d. Clearly none of them had a clue what it was...I like the anonymity most of the time but when you are at a car show and no one asks anything about it or even looks at it it's a bit...deflating. Particularly when you just spent 4 hours the night before cleaning it.

Ah well, I went for a drive on some great roads afterwards and it was amazing as always. [emoji41]

B1RMA · August 10, 2020

33 minutes ago, Irish ISF said:

One thing I will say is that if you want attention of any sort don't get the ISF. I brought mine to cars and coffee yesterday and not one photographer took a photo of my car. Literally every car around me got snapped but not mine. I asked one why and he said that he thought it was an IS220d. Clearly none of them had a clue what it was...I like the anonymity most of the time but when you are at a car show and no one asks anything about it or even looks at it it's a bit...deflating. Particularly when you just spent 4 hours the night before cleaning it.

Ah well, I went for a drive on some great roads afterwards and it was amazing as always.

Interesting comment, I have experienced the exact opposite with my RCF, not sure if it's the colour or the wide bronze Vossen wheels but every time I went over to Goodwood (pre-Covid) to meet up for a coffee and watch the trackway fun with my mates (one AMG owner and I'm an ex AMG owner) they both said 'hey Dave those people are taking photo's of your car' and it's true. When we went to the Simply Japanese do last year every time I went back to the car there were people there photographing it and asking about it. I guess it's not very subtle.

Irish ISF · August 10, 2020

Interesting comment, I have experienced the exact opposite with my RCF, not sure if it's the colour or the wide bronze Vossen wheels but every time I went over to Goodwood (pre-Covid) to meet up for a coffee and watch the trackway fun with my mates (one AMG owner and I'm an ex AMG owner) they both said 'hey Dave those people are taking photo's of your car' and it's true. When we went to the Simply Japanese do last year every time I went back to the car there were people there photographing it and asking about it. I guess it's not very subtle.

The RC-F is much more eye catching alright. Even a standard RC is a very striking looking car which I would imagine draws attention.

I find it particularly weird becuase Ireland seems to have an obsession with the gen 1 IS200/Altezza as there were several of these at the meet, yet no interest in the first and only actual decent IS performance car. To me an IS-F and an IS220d look very very different and I don't know how you wouldn't spot that it's not the same car. It's funny because reading old reviews a lot of reviewers complained that the F was too gaudy looking and butch. But I suppose not every car was coming equipped with AMG/S-Line/M power body kits back then.

MNMJ · August 11, 2020

I loved how stealthy the IS-F was, even in the best colour (red of course). If they had made a replacement in the new shape, I would almost certainly have gone for that over the RC-F.

Irish ISF · August 11, 2020

I loved how stealthy the IS-F was, even in the best colour (red of course). If they had made a replacement in the new shape, I would almost certainly have gone for that over the RC-F.

I like the stealth too but this was total and absolute indifference. Six photographers were there and not a single one photographed it. The second gen IS seems to have no following for a cheap RWD car that is available as a manual. You would think drifters would be into it. Altezza/is200 are literally everywhere here. I've never seen the type of person who buys one of them in a second gen IS (that's not necessarily a bad thing either!)

If the ISF was based on the first generation IS then I think it would have a way bigger following than it does.

MNMJ · August 13, 2020

On 8/11/2020 at 6:58 PM, Irish ISF said:

If the ISF was based on the first generation IS then I think it would have a way bigger following than it does.

Especially if they put the V8 in the wagon

d3ron · August 15, 2020

I love how much of a sleeper the isf is. One of the main reasons I chose it.

MerchantOfVenice · August 28, 2020

In the end guys I bought a C63 507 saloon. Only 1/1 in the country in this colour combination.
The owner bought it brand new as a birthday present to himself!

Just couldn’t say no...

I know it’s a Lexus forum but here are some pics nonetheless

Arnett · August 28, 2020

Looks lovely though hope you enjoy your new toy.

gb1600e · August 28, 2020

Re

I find it particularly weird becuase Ireland seems to have an obsession with the gen 1 IS200/Altezza

@Irish ISF agree with you on that. Couple of years ago I sold my old IS200 Sport sight un seen to an Irish guy who had a car transporter pick it up. I was expecting a flat bed and a full sized 10 car transporter turned up and he already had another IS200 on board. The driver said he was taking one or two every other week.

Irish ISF · August 28, 2020

Re

I find it particularly weird becuase Ireland seems to have an obsession with the gen 1 IS200/Altezza
[mention=65183]Irish ISF[/mention] agree with you on that. Couple of years ago I sold my old IS200 Sport sight un seen to an Irish guy who had a car transporter pick it up. I was expecting a flat bed and a full sized 10 car transporter turned up and he already had another IS200 on board. The driver said he was taking one or two every other week.

They are everywhere over here. Big drifting scene here of course so it makes sense as they will stand up to the abuse. Very hard to find a clean one now.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk