To flush or not to flush?

[LenT]

40 minutes ago, GMB said:

Well you've got me, I am of a certain age unfortunately and I have never heard of Trigger's broom. What is it?

I’ve not heard it either, but I suspect it’s a recycling by a character in Only Fools and Horses of a very old gag about the proud road sweeper who’s had the same broom for the last 25 years!

 

And its only had four new heads and three new handles…

(Other variations are available!)

[true blue]

Hi I am of a certain age also but a fan of only fools and horses Its a generation thing . In this episode Trigger boasts about his broom ,has a photo and pronounces it is 20 years old and only had 17 heads and 14 handles ,as part of the comedy he called Del Boy Dave so the conversation continued                         20 years is along time Dave                                                                                         well its 2 decades                                                                                                         I wouldn't go that far 

RIP Roger

 

[d3ron]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

Well you've got me, I am of a certain age unfortunately and I have never heard of Trigger's broom. What is it?

Trigger was the horse belonging to Roy Rogers but I have never seen him ( Trigger ) sweep a floor??

😂

[Malc1]

Gearbox oil changes ….. there’s other threads here too somewhere I think ! 
 

remembering thoughts are a partial only change …… I had mine 95 Ls400 done about 80k miles ago and it’s still as smooth as silk at 247500 miles …… but it was before too ! 

My 91 Ls400 I’m thinking to do the same partial change at its now just 100k miles over 32 years …… it’s gearchanging feels a little “ grabbing” occasionally ….. I’ve had this car for about 4 months 

Malc 

[Ala Larj]

I was always taught “if it’s yellow let it mellow, if it’s brown flush it down!”

[Pielight]

The need to change the fluid is an obvious bone of contention, but what seems to be universally accepted by those in the know’, is that you should NOT flush these transmissions. There also seems to be agreement, even amongst the periodical oil change advocates (eg. car care nut), that if an oil change has not been carried out on an older transmission (e.g. +100k miles) then a lot more harm than good will come from an oil change. 

With my 39k mile August 2017 GSF, I’ve been procrastinating ‘trust Toyota and leave well alone’ vs ‘listen to the YouTube/social media experts’ and distrust Toyota’.

I was leaning heavily in favour of the latter, but now question the notion that Toyota state ‘lifetime’ as a sales tactic. Thinking about it, I very much doubt whether a gear oil change at 6 years/60k miles would influence anyone in their choice of car at all. Furthermore, gearbox failure/malfunction even after 10 or 15 years (or any age for that matter) would not enhance the reputation of a manufacturer. Lexus, more than most, seem to place very high value on their products being reputedly bulletproof, so I am not totally convinced there is any real incentive for them to claim ‘for life’ if that is not the case. That would also not align with them sticking to annual/10k mile oil/filter changes when other manufacturers went down the 2 year road which is probably a lot more of a sales attraction.

Im also considering the fact that ‘inspection’ of the transmission oil is in fact a scheduled service requirement. What exactly the inspection involves I don’t know, but if it includes evaluating the condition as well as a level check, then this would mitigate any potential for unanticipated oil degradation, as presumably an oil change would need to be carried out if the condition is found to be sub standard. This principle has been applied for many years in industries such as rail. The huge diesel engines in locomotives (which can hold a couple of hundred gallons of lube oil) have oil changes based on chemical analysis rather than periodicity. In the case of a car that holds a small amount of engine oil, the cost of analysis isn’t worth doing when it can be changed relatively cheaply/easily.

The procedure for F car transmission oil change is pretty complex, and given the much longer anticipated life of the oil, then an analysis in whatever form that may be (perhaps even just visual), could well be more appropriate.

There is also the consideration of the possibility of a transmission oil change not being carried out correctly, i.e. level checks at precisely the correct temperature. Even Lexus technicians are unlikely to have much experience in doing this. For me the ‘leave well alone’ and ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ principles are starting to look pretty compelling in this case.

In conclusion, I’m leaning towards trusting Toyota…but then again there is always that nagging doubt! 😩🤣

 

 

[Malc1]

Toyota Lexus for “life” was is 100k miles I’ve learnt from this Forum 

As I’ve said before I’ve had the gearbox oil part drained and refilled on my 95 Ls400 a while ago and now on 248k she drives very smoothly 

I might do another partial drain at 270k miles too ….. a few years yet maybe 

Malc 

[d3ron]

The other thing to note is this isn’t a full drain down and flush, more like a top up. 
 

Also it’s been done by Lexus, so I’m sure they know what they’re doing. 
 

I was out in mine today and the one thing I do remember was it used to be snatchy when cold. It’s perfectly smooth again despite me not being in the car much. 

[Rob RCF]

You should do a "drain and fill" which is basically a standard change and not a flush. You want some of the clutch material to remain in the oil. Anyway I'm sure you know all this if you've been watching The Car Care Nut.

Some or all of the extended fluid change intervals come with caveats, for example the 10k mile oil change assumes you drive the car a certain way, with certain things like towing or performance driving excluded, meaning you should revert back to 5k/6mo oil changes. I can imagine a similar idea with the transmission, since spirited driving will have more frequent shifts and high rpm hard shifts, etc.

Also iirc the push for extended intervals was mostly driven by certain government and environmental agencies, rather than the manufacturers trying to make it better for the customer. You might be fine either way, but if you care about the car and want it to last a long time I think it's still better to do more frequent changes. Ironically it may actually be better for the environment as the car will last longer and probably burn less oil etc.

When I had my RCF done it was in most of the day and the service advisor explained that the car had to be left to cool down, then put on the lift and brought up to a certain temperature during the process, so I believe they did it properly. The most annoying part is that they usually try to talk you out of it and you basically have to insist you've done your own research and want it done anyway.

Coolant should be changed more frequently as well, since it becomes acidic over time. The one thing that's still a bit of a mystery to me is rear differential oil changes.

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Rob RCF said:

The one thing that's still a bit of a mystery to me is rear differential oil changes.

Every 20k miles / 4 years is the standard service schedule. There is no distinction between a normal and severe schedule for this element.

Quote

Coolant should be changed more frequently as well, since it becomes acidic over time.

Worth testing it rather than just replacing it before the proper schedule. 

[Jgtcracer]

5 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Every 20k miles / 4 years is the standard service schedule. There is no distinction between a normal and severe schedule for this element.

This is how Lexus Newcastle did nine, without being prompted I might add…..