Theft of Cats Still Increasing.

Delphius1 · July 20, 2020

I work in supplying car parts and the number of requests we are getting for replacement cats after theft is getting ridiculous. We only specialise in one make and model of car: The Mazda MX-5. Now, given the thing is only a Gnat's tadger away from the ground, you'd think it would be pretty immune to cat theft. After all there are easier pickings with 4x4s and their higher ground clearance.

But no. We are getting at least two requests a week now. And those are the ones that telephone orders in to us, there may be more being ordered online we don't know about. For one make and model of car. A sportscar at that. I hate to think of the number of other easier target cars that are having cats stolen.

So it appears to be a real problem. The other issue is that depending on the type, cat locks don't seem to be much of a deterrent. The ones that secure the cat to the car with a flexible steel cable don't seem to be a deterrent because if the thieves have an angle grinder that can cut through an exhaust pipe in a matter of seconds, a steel cable won't be much of a challenge.

On sports cars, the old-style alarms with tilt switches seem to be the answer, so that the alarm will sound if the car is jacked up. Because you have to jack the car up to get at the cat. With higher 4x4s, I'm not sure what the answer is. Even large steel plates bolted to the underside of the car to shield the cat don't appear to be a deterrent as the thieves just angle-grind the heads off the mounting bolts. Countersunk mounting screws would help solve that, with a number of mounting points to dissuade thieves from cutting slots into the shield and attacking the cat again.

Just thought I'd post what I'm seeing out there in the world at the moment.

Something needs to be done about it, but I don't see it being talked about as it only seems prevalent in certain areas at the moment. In at least one case a customer has been hit twice.

I'm thinking of wrapping my cat in razor wire. If they go for mine, I'm taking a few ounces of flesh in the process....

Herbie · July 20, 2020

4 minutes ago, Delphius1 said:

Something needs to be done about it, but I don't see it being talked about

That's because all the talk in the world can't solve the problem (at the moment). You've already answered your own question in that the scrotes can defeat almost anything.

Ironically it's the rise in car ownership in places like India, Pakistan and around the world that's driving the need for the precious metals to produce cats and it probably won't stop until the petrol engine is phased out, or manufacturers can somehow position the cats in the engine bay where they'll be too dificult to access.

katabrontes · July 20, 2020

Good idea about the razor wire

Delphius1 · July 20, 2020

16 minutes ago, Herbie said:

That's because all the talk in the world can't solve the problem (at the moment). You've already answered your own question in that the scrotes can defeat almost anything.

Ironically it's the rise in car ownership in places like India, Pakistan and around the world that's driving the need for the precious metals to produce cats and it probably won't stop until the petrol engine is phased out, or manufacturers can somehow position the cats in the engine bay where they'll be too dificult to access.

It would be nice if there was more awareness in the media, because it seems to be one hell of a crime wave at the moment, especially in London.

But owners of 4x4s like the RX need to be on guard at the moment, especially if they are driving into big cites and staying overnight. Of course it's not limited to just the RX. Cars like the RX, Honda CRV and other SUVs are high risk targets from what I'm hearing.

I thought the main targets were hybrids like the RX because they are supposed to be less wearing on the cat, but it seems that even 20 year old non-hybrid cars are fair game. Can't say how much precious metal there is left in a cat that old. lol.

On modern cars there are already cats in the engine bay as the "main" cat is in the manifold and then thanks to Euro standards there's a second cat further along the exhaust (that's why the RX has 3 cats: one per manifold and a third cat in the exhaust). It's the second cat on modern cars that is vulnerable. God help us in the thieves ever work out a way of nicking the manifold cats as well, the replacement cost will total the car.

Herbie · July 20, 2020

9 minutes ago, Delphius1 said:

But owners of 4x4s like the RX need to be on guard at the moment

But realistically, how can we "be on guard"?

There's absolutely nothing we can do in practical terms other than living and sleeping in the car, that would keep it 100% safe.

13 minutes ago, Delphius1 said:

I thought the main targets were hybrids like the RX because they are supposed to be less wearing on the cat, but it seems that even 20 year old non-hybrid cars are fair game. Can't say how much precious metal there is left in a cat that old. lol.

The precious metals from any cat, from any car, will be just as good as any from a hybrid.

A catalyst takes part in a chemical reaction (usually speeding it up) but is not part of that reaction itself and it remains unchanged by the reaction, ready to be used over and over again, ad infinitum.

LexIS200Sport · July 20, 2020

31 minutes ago, Herbie said:

A catalyst takes part in a chemical reaction (usually speeding it up) but is not part of that reaction itself and it remains unchanged by the reaction, ready to be used over and over again, ad infinitum.

There should be some degree of erosion or deterioration, otherwise we won't be seeing error codes like "P0420 - Cat efficiency below threshold".

People getting very desperate now... :down:

Herbie · July 20, 2020

1 hour ago, LexIS200Sport said:

There should be some degree of erosion or deterioration, otherwise we won't be seeing error codes like "P0420 - Cat efficiency below threshold".

I think that would be caused by something else (although I have to admit that I don't know what) rather than deterioration of the precious metal catalysts themselves.

flookyk · July 20, 2020

Without pointing the finger at where the people that are pinching these cats and selling them on come from it is not surprising at all that this type of crime is almost unheard off up here in the North East.

The thing we had up here was a gang going around stealing Range Rovers .... and if the owners had as much trouble with theirs as I did with mine they would have glad to get rid of it and claim off the insurance 😉

dutchie01 · July 20, 2020

hit the press today in Holland, cats stolen by professional gangs from eastern europe. Toyota Prius seems to be nr 1 target..

where are the days where they just stole the entire car hey? My Bmw was totally stripped twice, satnav, controllers, radio, aircon, airbag and all. and now they go for catalyst converters.

Possible solution would be to put 380 volts on the car or a flame thrower underneath with a movement sensor?

Barry14UK · July 20, 2020

There have been several threads on this subject and on one I posted an alarm system which would have had to be activated if the pipe was cut. Perhaps as an additional refinement a dye could be released in the process.

Stealing cats has become quite a problem in the USA and some mainland European countries as well as the UK and it calls for serious collaboration between automobile manufacturers and security experts. Unfortunately, the Police are overstretched already so the scumbags have a very good chance of 'getting away with it'.

Mossypossy · July 21, 2020

New material called Proteus. Cannot be cut by angle grinders.

NemesisUK · July 21, 2020

43 minutes ago, Mossypossy said:

New material called Proteus. Cannot be cut by angle grinders.

https://scitechdaily.com/proteus-technology-new-material-is-strong-light-and-non-cuttable/

https://newatlas.com/materials/proteus-non-cuttable-bike-lock-armor/

ColinBarber · July 21, 2020

14 hours ago, Herbie said:

I think that would be caused by something else (although I have to admit that I don't know what) rather than deterioration of the precious metal catalysts themselves.

It is normally contamination, covering up the catalyst material to stop it working. Oil from a worn engine, coolant from a minor head gasket leak etc. Unburnt fuel from the engine igniting in the cat and overheating/melting the honeycomb structured catalyst will also reduce efficiency due to a reduction in surface area.

Illogan · July 21, 2020

6 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

https://scitechdaily.com/proteus-technology-new-material-is-strong-light-and-non-cuttable/

https://newatlas.com/materials/proteus-non-cuttable-bike-lock-armor/

There is an interesting Paper available detailing various solutions to mechanical attack. I belive that several layers of Kevlar fabric, laid crosswise behind on sandwiched within a metal casing will be most effective agains a saw or grinding attack, ai it effectively clogs and ties up the discs and blades.

https://www.cpni.gov.uk/system/files/documents/8a/67/Project_FARM_Guidance_Doc_Materials_Spreadsheet_Manufacturers_V1.0.20160523.pdf

Delphius1 · July 22, 2020

On 7/21/2020 at 8:17 AM, Mossypossy said:

New material called Proteus. Cannot be cut by angle grinders.

It does look promising, but I bet it will be hellishly expensive. A sheet of that under the car with security type bolts flush to the surface would be the ultimate protection.

A small paper of FARM (Forcible Attack Resistant Materials) is here: https://www.cpni.gov.uk/system/files/documents/8a/67/Project_FARM_Guidance_Doc_Materials_Spreadsheet_Manufacturers_V1.0.20160523.pdf

Interesting reading, especially towards the end when they mention ceramic spheres in a resin matrix. Proteus is ceramic spheres encased in Aluminium I believe.

But two sheets of steel with a ceramic sphere/resin composite in the centre could be a cheaper attack-resistant option.

T Sport 1978 · July 22, 2020

Hi all,

I had a RX450H up until 2017 before needing to join the MPV brigade and hence forced to part with my beloved RX, now owning a Prius+ and its a great car for anyone with a large family.

In the 2 years that I had my RX I have not had any attempts on my cat, but within 1 month of the Prius+'s ownership, I lost the cat to a scum bag whilst parked in a private car park in Croydon.

This is definitely a prevalent problem, for when it happened and I called the police, I was told another 2 Prius' were done on that same day.

I have since installed a Catloc onto mine at a cost of £250, and with all the talk I've had with the recovery and garages since, it seems to be an effective way to deter these scumbags enough to stop the problem. Of course unless you consistently park your car in isolated and open places, because of course, if given enough time, they would and could steal literally anything.