New to me 2007 RX400H - Just Two KEY Questions Ya Know!

Tagmaster · July 4, 2020

Hello there, it’s good to see everyone on here sharing practical advice and being generally helpful. Consequently, it’s time for me to dive in and ask for help for a few things I can’t seem to find definitive answers to.

A brief introduction: I’m old enough to remember the LS400 launch and it being pretty-much the first car as everything as standard, so quiet the first owners sent it back asking for it to make SOME noise (possible urban myth) and that the LS400 was (I am sure I remember reading this) the result of an unparalleled cooperation between previously super-competitive companies.

I've had a soft spot for Lexus ever since, but haven't quite had what we'll call 'the money'. However, I have developed this clever thing I do. I am certain it’s not only me who does it. This is it:

When there’s something I can’t afford, but really think would enhance my quality of life, I wait 10 years until its price has come in range and hey presto! Patience will out.

I’ll cut to the end: My BMW 530i Estate (also 2007) had to go. I took some special lock down time out, to pull together all the bills for the past 5 years. You guessed it, a total of £8,000 and that is NOT including fuel. However, it does include road tax, but the rest is absolutely maintenance and nothing else.

The RX400H I got 2 or 3 weeks ago from one of those dealers you get a car from where you think on the way home ‘I probably should have bought one privately’, but it was a good price for a two owner 110K miles (cam belt done) and all Lexus service stamps up to a few years ago.

THOSE FEW QUESTIONS

Locking Wheel Nuts

One simple question first: I can’t find the key bolt thingy for the locking wheel nuts. Is there a secret hiding place for it / somewhere it disappears to, or do I have to get another? If so, will some sort of universal one work?

Key Transponder Frequency

The other concerns the ignition key, there was only one with the car. I got another cut from a photo by keymoon.uk which was so cheap I thought it might be either a scam or just not work. It came in a few days and is perfect. However, no transponder.

Do we know where to get a transponder at a sensible price? If not, do we know the frequency the UK cars are on? I can probably get some made offshore, but I am under the impression the frequency varies by country.

Otherwise that’s it! I won’t bother you with the error codes the clever AA smart breakdown thingy is showing in the AA app – after the AA attended thanks to a flat (original) Battery, which the nice AA man then replaced for me - I am SURE the AA knows all about the importance of trickle charging hybrids, doesn’t it? Please say it doea. How can it not? After at least 13 years of hybrids on the roads?! Note: I didn’t know until I started googling the error codes.

Anyway, it’s booked in for it. (London Road Garage, St Albans) next week.I'll let you know how we get on.

Help with that locking wheel nut and key transponder would be grand.

ONE MORE THING

I stupidly bought an MVCI and usual-suspect software (on CDROM) from eBay. It seems fine and all works, but doesn’t talk to my car as I am all Windows 10 here and it’s happier with XP or Windows 7. I haven’t got time to go through the windows 10 hoops, if anyone wants it, you can have it at a discount and not have to wait 10 days or whatever is was to get here form China. Let me know!

THANKS!

Raymond

Herbie · July 4, 2020

Hello Raymond and welcome to the club. We love to see photos so get some of your new beastie on when you can.

Taking your last point first, if you don't want to mess about with trying to get it working in Win 10 (took me a couple of hours of trying but got there in the end) just download VirtualBox from here https://www.virtualbox.org/ and install Win XP or Win 7 in that. I've got a spare copy of 7 with genuine licence key that you can have if you need it.

The key for the locking wheel nuts is usually in the glove box but could be in the tool cubby hole under the boot floor.

No idea about transponders I'm afraid.

Tagmaster · July 4, 2020

Ah! that's great I'll check the glove box and the virtualbox too, thanks ever so much. I'll get a few photos as well. Ideally not showing the bubbling on the alloys. I think it's going to be a while before the semi-gamification of balancing the self-charging with running on the hybrid batteries and keeping to around 30MPG (BMW same age nearer 15MPG around town) wears off. I can't imagine what it would have been like having this in 2007, something from the future then I am sure. I know it's not exactly a Telsa Model X, but that was 8 years away.

Tagmaster · July 5, 2020

Ah hello there and thanks. Virtualbox downloaded, Locking wheel nut key was indeed in the glove box. Duh! Shows you how often I buy a car (4 or 5 in the past 20 years)

This is my fave photo, the one that shows a not small or light 13 year old car with a 3.3 Litre engine doing just under 30mpg up and down hills on short, local journeys only. I put up with way too many years of nearer half that than I should have.

The AA man said he'd been called out to a lot of Lexus over the years, but only ever for Battery reasons or tyres of course.

Prior to the Battery going, I was getting an error code pointing at an oxygen sensor, which I was going to be taking it in for. Since the car was boost started by the AA and the Battery replaced, the error codes are slightly more worrying and the lamda sensor one seems to have gone. However, still achieving that 29MPG...

Surely the AA's Battery boost technology caters for the world of Hybrids?! They haven't been going round blowing up ECMs for 15 years have they?! (codes U0100 and P0a1d) no warning lights, no indication there are any problems.

Thanks again and she is booked in to the garage on Wednesday. Again, I am trusting that a popular and busy local garage will be all over Hybrids like a prawn sandwich these days. Let me know if that's not the case! Raymond

Herbie · July 5, 2020

5 hours ago, Tagmaster said:

she is booked in to the garage on Wednesday. Again, I am trusting that a popular and busy local garage will be all over Hybrids like a prawn sandwich these days.

If you've only had the car for a few weeks I'd take it back to the dealer you bought it from and get them to sort it under warranty, especially if it could turn out to be something expensive.

And to put your mind at ease, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jump starting a hybrid. As long as they got the polarity correct (which I'm assuming the man from the AA did) then that's fine, although you should never use a hybrid to jump start anything else.

royoftherovers · July 5, 2020

29 minutes ago, Herbie said:

If you've only had the car for a few weeks I'd take it back to the dealer you bought it from and get them to sort it under warranty, especially if it could turn out to be something expensive.

And to put your mind at ease, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jump starting a hybrid. As long as they got the polarity correct (which I'm assuming the man from the AA did) then that's fine, although you should never use a hybrid to jump start anything else.

More wise words Herbie.

PCM · July 5, 2020

2 hours ago, Herbie said:

If you've only had the car for a few weeks I'd take it back to the dealer you bought it from and get them to sort it under warranty, especially if it could turn out to be something expensive.

+1 !

Rutlandlex · July 13, 2020

On 7/5/2020 at 5:08 PM, Herbie said:

And to put your mind at ease, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jump starting a hybrid. As long as they got the polarity correct (which I'm assuming the man from the AA did) then that's fine, although you should never use a hybrid to jump start anything else.

A lot of people say that but has anyone actually tried it? Well last December, I decided that in the interests of scientific research I ought to try it. Faced with a flat Battery in a Mini Cooper S I had the perfect opportunity. I moved the Lexus into position and left it in Ready mode. The engine was running because it was cold and I had the heater on. I lifted the bonnet and connected the jump leads which was a bit of a challenge on the Mini due to awkward access but I got a spark. I then jumped into the Mini, pressed the clutch pedal down and hit the start/stop button and it fired up straightaway. So I wouldn't say never, I would say take the same precautions as any other car i.e. don't ***** up the polarity, don't short the leads out and leave the Lexus in ready mode so that it can draw on the power from the traction Battery if necessary.

Herbie · July 14, 2020

27 minutes ago, Rutlandlex said:

So I wouldn't say never, I would say take the same precautions as any other car i.e. don't ***** up the polarity, don't short the leads out and leave the Lexus in ready mode so that it can draw on the power from the traction battery if necessary.

No offence Neil but you've just been lucky.

The crucial thing is that the recipient car does not draw on the traction Battery as you state above.

The Battery of a conventional car is only used for cranking the engine and the starter motor can draw more than 300A while doing this. Once the engine is running and the alternator is spinning, the alternator runs all of the electrical systems (and also replenishes the battery) so the recipient car draws power from the donor car's alternator, not its Battery. This is all well and good because an alternator can supply plenty of current, with some of them being capable of outputting 300A or more.

Our hybrids don't have alternators, they have DC/DC converters instead, which is basically a complicated box of electronics that steps down the traction Battery voltage from approximately 288V to 14.5V but crucially at nowhere near such a high current as a standard alternator would supply. It takes less than 20A to get my RX450h into READY mode so the DC/DC converters are not rated to output hundreds of amps and if the recipient car tries to draw anything like that, then there is likely to be a big bang and lots of smoke from the converter, which will translate to a huge dent in your wallet.

To me, it's just not worth the risk.

Thackeray · July 14, 2020

9 hours ago, Herbie said:

The crucial thing is that the recipient car does not draw on the traction battery as you state above.

Initially I wondered if the fact that the engine was running made any difference. While it's running and the car is stationary, several kilowatts are probably being generated by MG1 (motor/generator 1) but this is all being fed into the traction Battery. The power fed into the 12 volt system presumably doesn't vary a great deal.

So could the 12 volt Battery have supplied the 300 amps required on its own, with circuitry preventing this being drawn from the DC/DC converter and causing any damage? Personally, I wouldn't try jump starting a conventional car from my hybrid. But I'm wondering why no damage was caused. Was this just luck? Did the engine running have anything to do with it? Or is there circuitry to prevent damage and success just depends on whether the 12 volt Battery can provide the power needed on its own?

Herbie · July 14, 2020

I don't know if the DC/DC converter has any overcurrent protection to prevent the recipient car from trying to draw too much current, but I would hope so.

As I understand it, the 12V Battery and the converter sort of work in tandem in this context and, in theory at least, everything should be alright as long as the donor Battery is healthy and is up to the job. However, if it's not, then the shortfall will have to come from the converter and that opens up the possibility of big problems.

I suppose one way around it may be, as you say, to not have the hybrid in READY mode so that the recipient car only draws from the hybrid's 12V Battery. The problem then, of course, is that we know they aren't very big and so you may run the risk of flattening your own Battery.

Tagmaster · August 2, 2020

Hello hello a quick update re: those scary error codes, which admittedly I would not have known about without the AA app / plugin Bluetooth thingy. I did end up taking it into a local, highly-regarded garage, their diagnostics didn't see what the AA app was reporting, so they did a reset and i had no error codes at all for 3 weeks. Until i decided to see what the RX400H was like at going through big puddles (highly competent) at which point the lamda code reappeared.

Now the AA man mentioned this was absolutely not an emergency and the man at the garage's comment was: 'don't waste £500 replacing it, we've done loads, they just go wrong again'. The previous garage i used in st albans would have happily replaced it and charged me at least £500 (bmw 530i this replaced cost circa £1500 a year at the garage)

Either way, i am still averaging 27mpg ALL short trips, longest 15 mins.

FAR MORE IMPORTANTLY: I was pulling into a car park just outside st albans last week as another RX400H was leaving AND I GOT A WAVE from the pleasant, modern gentleman driver that was clearly 'hey, fellow RX400H person!'

Is this a thing? Tell me it's a thing!

And any idea at all on that key transponder frequency?

Thanks!

PCM · August 2, 2020

Maybe I missed it, but what's the, 'it' to be replaced potentially?

Tagmaster · August 2, 2020

Lamda Sensor.

Herbie · August 2, 2020

For just under £20 including postage you could get this little gadget that would tell you the key frequency and also allow you to make sure any infrared remotes (TV, HiFi etc) are working.

I've not got this particular gadget myself (yet!) but I have bought lots of electronic bits and pieces from Banggood and never had any problems whatsoever. Usually arrives in under two weeks and everything I've had up to now has worked first time and continues to work well, including this DSO138 Oscilloscope and also this XR2206 signal generator amongst other stuff

Tagmaster · August 3, 2020

16 hours ago, Herbie said:

For just under £20 including postage you could get this little gadget that would tell you the key frequency and also allow you to make sure any infrared remotes (TV, HiFi etc) are working.

Thanks! Ordered and came in at £16 too thanks to vouchers for being a first time bangood user. I'll let you know how I get on,

Tagmaster · August 12, 2020

On 8/2/2020 at 7:34 PM, Herbie said:

For just under £20 including postage you could get this little gadget that would tell you the key frequency and also allow you to make sure any infrared remotes (TV, HiFi etc) are working.

I've not got this particular gadget myself (yet!) but I have bought lots of electronic bits and pieces from Banggood and never had any problems whatsoever. Usually arrives in under two weeks and everything I've had up to now has worked first time and continues to work well, including this DSO138 Oscilloscope and also this XR2206 signal generator amongst other stuff

No idea if this is just this key, or all UK RX400H keys...I'll let you know if my usual supplier can provide transponders on this frequency and i'll get a handful if so, in case anyone else needs one. Thanks again for the tip.

Herbie · August 12, 2020

Excellent Raymond, thanks for letting us know it works.

Delphius1 · August 13, 2020

All European keys work on 433.92Mhz, near as dammit to 434. Depends on how many digits after the decimal point you're working to. 😉

That's the frequency they're licensed to work on. U.S. keys work on a different frequency, hence why if you're buying off Chinese sites, you have to make sure you specify the European version. Otherwise the key will be transmitting on a different frequency to the receiver in the car and they won't hear each other.

Spacewagon52 · September 24, 2020

On 7/5/2020 at 5:08 PM, Herbie said:

If you've only had the car for a few weeks I'd take it back to the dealer you bought it from and get them to sort it under warranty, especially if it could turn out to be something expensive.

And to put your mind at ease, there is absolutely nothing wrong with jump starting a hybrid. As long as they got the polarity correct (which I'm assuming the man from the AA did) then that's fine, although you should never use a hybrid to jump start anything else.

I HAD forgotten that!

Barry14UK · September 25, 2020

Going back to what was said earlier in this thread concerning the 'lost' but later found wheel nut key, should you actually lose it, Lexus can remove nut as they have a master key to do so they tell me. Might be worth remembering.