LS400 & LS430 side by side

GEN · June 21, 2020

I'm temporarily having both a LS400 and LS430 in my drive but it is a sad occasion as the LS400 I was previously very happy with has a final transmission failure and the parts are no longer available. After 22 years and 228893 miles I can't complain. Anyway this has given me an opportunity to compare the two:

- although from the outside they both appear to be about the same size (in fact the LS430 is, according to the specs, marginally larger on the outside), the LS400 seems larger on the inside, the seats seem bigger, and all around visibility is undoubtedly better. In fact visibility on the LS430 (out the back and pillars; I guess they put a reverse camera because they had to) is poor and it even lacks the open feel of the LS400.

- the LS430 obviously has more gadgets and improvements.

- it seems to me that the suspension is equally soft (I don't mean collapsed!) even though the LS430 only has 60000 miles and air suspension.

- the LS430 seems noisier : tyres or roads? (I don't know)

- engine response : the LS430 doesn't quite the low V8 growl of the LS400 and the power availability is just marginally slower to come than on the LS400.

- the steering has more feeling but it requires more effort on the newer model whereas on the older one it is absolutely effortless and feels very much on rails.

- seems one of the Mark Levinson speakers is on its way out on the LS430 whereas all the original speakers on the LS400 are just fine (but they're not ML).

- the satnav: essentially the same except on the LS430 they have managed to hide the cancel function so well I could not find it without the manual!

- absolutely love that the front seats are heated and cooled on the LS430.

All that comes to mind, let me know if you have any questions.

GEN · June 21, 2020

24 minutes ago, GEN said:

I'm temporarily having both a LS400 and LS430 in my drive but it is a sad occasion as the LS400 I was previously very happy with has a final transmission failure and the parts are no longer available. After 22 years and 228893 miles I can't complain. Anyway this has given me an opportunity to compare the two:

- although from the outside they both appear to be about the same size (in fact the LS430 is, according to the specs, marginally larger on the outside), the LS400 seems larger on the inside, the seats seem bigger, and all around visibility is undoubtedly better. In fact visibility on the LS430 (out the back and pillars; I guess they put a reverse camera because they had to) is poor and it even lacks the open feel of the LS400.

- the LS430 obviously has more gadgets and improvements.

- it seems to me that the suspension is equally soft (I don't mean collapsed!) even though the LS430 only has 60000 miles and air suspension.

- the LS430 seems noisier : tyres or roads? (I don't know)

- engine response : the LS430 doesn't quite the low V8 growl of the LS400 and the power availability is just marginally slower to come than on the LS400.

- the steering has more feeling but it requires more effort on the newer model whereas on the older one it is absolutely effortless and feels very much on rails.

- seems one of the Mark Levinson speakers is on its way out on the LS430 whereas all the original speakers on the LS400 are just fine (but they're not ML).

- the satnav: essentially the same except on the LS430 they have managed to hide the cancel function so well I could not find it without the manual!

- absolutely love that the front seats are heated and cooled on the LS430.

All that comes to mind, let me know if you have any questions.

It is of course nice to have a new (to me) car with all the new gadgets but having had the old fully serviced, new Battery and new tyres last year and now not knowing what to do with the old one...

The-Acre · June 21, 2020

Interesting observations. Having had two 400's and three 430's it's not always easy to decide which is best but ultimately I lean towards the 430 as the best in terms of comfort, power and driving pleasure, although if I was to have another drive of a 400, which I haven't done for 5 years, I may change my mind!

Malc · June 22, 2020

so what is the terminal issue with the gearbox on the Ls400 ?

we know they die on the Ls430 with a lack of radiator change etc but never heard of it with the Ls400

Malc

BigBoomer · June 22, 2020

The interior of the 430 is slightly smaller, mostly due to the addition of a shed load of airbags and structural reinforcement.
Both of these were required to give it best in class crash protection for the occupants.

It depends on which year 430 you have and which wheels are fitted.
The 18" wheels & tyres on the 2004-2006 models are noisier and slightly harsher than the 17" that were standard on the 2000-2003.
The 400 had 16" wheels and tyres as standard.

When I was buying my 430 I test drove two 400s and I found that they felt more remote than the 430 which has more feedback and feel in the steering.
This may also be down to the wheel sizes as the wider rubber will require more effort to move.
That said, when you really start pushing the 430 through the twisties, you start to appreciate the feel and that air suspension system is awesome.

The biggest +ve towards the 400 for me was the drivers seat. For some reason the 430s seat seems to have less cushion in it.
Both 400s seats felt firmer and better built, even though they both had more mileage than the 430s I tested.

The ML speakers have surprisingly poor build quality.
After my experience of having to refoam both front speakers and completely replace the Sub, I won't be buying anything ML ever again.
Yes, it sounds good when working but why cheap out on speakers when building a car like the LS?

On the whole I preferred the 430 but would have been quite happy with a 400 too.
Wasn't keen on the one 460 I tested but it was much higher mileage than the others.

steve2006 · June 22, 2020

With regard to non availability of parts I was searching for a rear UCA on a 1994 LS last week for another member and discovered from Amayama that the part was now obsolete and no longer on sale. There may be new “old” stock still on dealer shelves but it seems these cars are now being pushed off the road by stealth. Original rear springs are now becoming like Rocking Horse **** .

If it gets to the point where the only choice in parts are cheap Chinese counterfeit ones then the car will be crushed as I would never again have full confidence in its safety and performance.

GEN · June 22, 2020

So here's what happened to the transmission on the LS400 :

- the pwr light started flashing.

- checked transmission fluid and it was fine.

- the gears began to slip : I would need to rev it up to 3k rpm just to get it to move off. When cold reverse was totally unavailable.

- took it to Lexus and they told me that they tried to get the parts but they were no longer available.

- last Thursday I started it up, engaged drive and nothing happened. Tried again (until engine reached about 5k rpm), no movement, engine light came on.

I am not a mechanically minded person so I can only tell you what I was told or experienced for myself. While in my ownership the car was always serviced/repaired by Lexus.

Now I'm sadly finding that it will probably have to be scrapped.

steve2006 · June 22, 2020

That’s a shame, the complete transmissions can be bought for little money as there is little demand for them and an independent would probably charge £200-300 to fit it.

Sounds more like the torque converter than auto box.

Worth considering if the rest of the car is still good.

GEN · June 22, 2020

17 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

With regard to non availability of parts I was searching for a rear UCA on a 1994 LS last week for another member and discovered from Amayama that the part was now obsolete and no longer on sale. There may be new “old” stock still on dealer shelves but it seems these cars are now being pushed off the road by stealth. Original rear springs are now becoming like Rocking Horse **** .

If it gets to the point where the only choice in parts are cheap Chinese counterfeit ones then the car will be crushed as I would never again have full confidence in its safety and performance.

My Ls400 (1998 model) needed a air conditioning condenser - I braced myself for the bill and then Lexus informed they had ordered the part but it was unavailable...

messi · June 22, 2020

38 minutes ago, GEN said:

My Ls400 (1998 model) needed a air conditioning condenser - I braced myself for the bill and then Lexus informed they had ordered the part but it was unavailable...

I know rockauto sell the condenser, I remember buying one 2 years ago when I had an ls400

GEN · June 22, 2020

Thank you for that unfortunately Lexus won't fit parts unless they source them. As mentioned elsewhere I am not mechanically inclined and only used to have one mechanic I trusted (he had worked wonders on my German cars) and he told me in advance that he would not work on a Lexus so the two possibilities were not possible!

Malc · June 22, 2020

well, if you're dramatically opposed to using other than the Lexus Main Dealer then the car needs to be scrapped for sure, not worth wasting any more of your time on

or maybe ....... which you seem to be totally averse to, an option could be to go visit a local ( or two ) gearbox repairers and ask their simple opinions

just my thoughts :unsure:

Malc

messi · June 22, 2020

Like steve said, it could just be a torque converter, I've never ever heard of an ls400 gearbox failing, ls430 yes, but ls400 is a no.

GEN · June 22, 2020

6 hours ago, Malc said:

well, if you're dramatically opposed to using other than the Lexus Main Dealer then the car needs to be scrapped for sure, not worth wasting any more of your time on

or maybe ....... which you seem to be totally averse to, an option could be to go visit a local ( or two ) gearbox repairers and ask their simple opinions

just my thoughts

Malc

Thank you for your thoughts Malcom. The only reason for my using a Lexus main dealer is that they have been unfailingly reliable and I cannot afford to test various mechanics when I have even had bad experiences with VW and Porsche main dealers! But back then I discovered a wonderful mechanic who in fact even knew more than the main dealers. Unfortunately he refused to work on Lexus and has now sold his garage and retired.

GEN · June 22, 2020

6 hours ago, messi said:

Like steve said, it could just be a torque converter, I've never ever heard of an ls400 gearbox failing, ls430 yes, but ls400 is a no.

Thank you messi: whatever it was the part/s were no longer available from Lexus and I'm afraid to me, lacking the knowledge, if the transmission is not engaging it has failed.

Malc · June 23, 2020

then it's a £15 bid from me for your write-off !

Malc

PCM · June 23, 2020

16 hours ago, GEN said:

Thank you messi: whatever it was the part/s were no longer available from Lexus and I'm afraid to me, lacking the knowledge, if the transmission is not engaging it has failed.

Maybe give Japex a call?

GEN · June 23, 2020

1 hour ago, Malc said:

then it's a £15 bid from me for your write-off !

Malc

Thank you Malc. Just went for more than 10 times and I know just the wheels and tyres... Sad...

Malc · June 25, 2020

oh dear, she sold for £150 or thereabouts then ?

was it through someone at your Lexus Main Dealer servicing people that she found another home ?

Malc

GEN · June 25, 2020

2 hours ago, Malc said:

oh dear, she sold for £150 or thereabouts then ?

was it through someone at your Lexus Main Dealer servicing people that she found another home ?

Malc

Sold for £200 😭.

Of course it was not sold to Lexus Main Dealer or associates.

I do like the LS430 but it's not in the same class as the LS400. I was neither willing nor able to spend the £9-10K that someone was asking for a LS400 with low mileage, otherwise, with the benefit of hindsight that is what I would have bought.

End of my LS400 story.

GEN · July 1, 2020

P. S. Received an offer from the Lexus Main Dealer who has been looking after my Ls400 : we want to buy your car! They say not just to sell me a new one but also for my "intentions"! Drat, I missed my big opportunity! It would have been fun just to take them up on their offer!?! 😂

Malc · July 2, 2020

I suspect it was coz someone who knows your car realised how daft it was to tell you to effectively write-your-car off for the sake of some perhaps relatively simple and inexpensive " fix " that they as a main dealer weren't prepared to discuss with you

your intentions were quite clear to write-the-car-off to about zero value and to never use another service avenue for the fix

Most owners with your age car left the Main Dealer servicing route long before and are happily using a local indy with the relatively simple skills to keep the LS400 on the road

My guy's been looking after my various Ls400s for some 13 years now and all parts have been available from somewhere ...... and at often a fraction of Main Dealer prices too .......... he assures me he'll always be able to keep my car going for me

Malc

GEN · July 2, 2020

You are lucky to have found such a good and inexpensive mechanic. It was not my experience so... (for instance I tried a Japanese car specialist : they did my brakes, which is not exactly rocket science, at half the price of the main dealer but the noise when braking was atrocious and could be heard in the next county! By the way, stopping-wise they were fine).

Mikaelse · July 9, 2020

On 6/22/2020 at 10:27 AM, GEN said:

So here's what happened to the transmission on the LS400 :

- the pwr light started flashing.

- checked transmission fluid and it was fine.

- the gears began to slip : I would need to rev it up to 3k rpm just to get it to move off. When cold reverse was totally unavailable.

- took it to Lexus and they told me that they tried to get the parts but they were no longer available.

- last Thursday I started it up, engaged drive and nothing happened. Tried again (until engine reached about 5k rpm), no movement, engine light came on.

I am not a mechanically minded person so I can only tell you what I was told or experienced for myself. While in my ownership the car was always serviced/repaired by Lexus.

Now I'm sadly finding that it will probably have to be scrapped.

Scrapping seems not needed. Those cars are worth saving. Find a good mechanic that can swap in a used transmission.
You are in luck probably. Since the transmssions are good quality and long lived generally .
Typically a good used one can be sourced at fair cost. Here in Sweden ( small country . Not many LS 400 ) there are 7 offered right now for LS400 on a major used parts trade site.
One year 2000 with only 70K miles on it. 500£ . Probably you can find a good one easy in UK too.