Quote from Lexus and advice on ATF change etc

[mattyt1991]

So as per the other thread I recently started I have just bought a 2008 IS250 with 86000 miles, FSH. All is running well with it at the moment. I would like to keep the car for about 3-5 years I think (I estimate around 4-6k miles a year) and I am really struggling to figure out what I should and shouldn't do to it to try and keep those miles as trouble free as possible. Things I have been advised to consider changing - water pump, ATF, spark plugs (last done at 43k), aux belt (last done at 53k), coolant change and lubricating the brake calipers. Here is the quote from Lexus:

Thank you for your enquiry, please find our prices below.

Major Service £375

Water pump & Auxiliary belt £620.22

Auto transmission oil change £175.29 ( oil change only )

Auto transmission Oil & filter change £444.52

Strip, clean & lubricate brake Calipers £288

 

My questions if anyone would be so kind to lend me their thoughts and experiences:

1. If I got the oil changed should I also get the filter changed? Big price difference!

2. I am also quite near the Devon Gearbox Centre - I have no experience with them but they seem to be well reviewed. Any particular instructions I should give them if I go with them? Can I leave them to use what fluid they advise or insist on a certain fluid?

3. Should I even change the ATF at all? Based on the mileage I will be doing? Have people had good luck in taking the "sealed for life" transmission at its word for over 100k miles?

4. That caliper price is insane right?

5. If I just put the reg number into autodoc.com and pick a water pump, should I just be able to use an indy for that job right?

6. For some weird reason the manual says that after 6 years the aux belt should be changed yearly or every 10k miles. Mine was done 30k miles ago. No-one is changing the belt every year are they? It doesn't need to be changed with the water pump does it?

7. How much should a change of coolant cost? Again should just be able to buy some coolant from autodoc and give it to a mechanic?

 

Sorry for all the questions, I'm new to this stuff but keen/anxious to learn! I suppose this is the issue with buying an older car and not really having the setup/experience/knowledge to do work yourself. I really like the car and am the sort of guy that would like to have it well looked after.  Any help really appreciated!

Cheers,

Matt

[bernieeccles]

With regards to the waterpump.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Pump-fits-LEXUS-IS250-Mk3-2-5-2013-on-4GR-FSE-Coolant-ADL-1610039435-New/233478433395?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This is a genuine Toyota pump with the logo ground off. It took me about 3 hours to fit after looking at online videos and doing it for the first time. The belt comes off and on in about 2 minutes or so.

No way is this a £600 pound job.

Edit for some reason, that pump is now showing for a Mk3 IS250 but I got one from the same supplier for a Mk2 a bit cheaper as they had a discount at the time.

[Herbie]

I have to pick up a click and collect order in a few minutes so I haven't got time to answer all points comprehensively but what I will quickly say is, don't be dazzled by the 'Lexus' badge.

Your's isn't a hybrid so there's nothing special to think about there and yes, it is a Lexus but it's still just 'a car' that's 12 years old. There's absolutely no need whatsoever to take it to Lexus and pay their extortionate prices. Hell, it doesn't even need to be an independent Lexus specialist - there are many superb garages and mechanics out there who have excellent reputations and do great work. The most important thing is to get personal recommendations from happy customers so that you can be safe in the knowledge that your car will be in good hands.

If I'm going to change the tranny fluid I can't see the point in not changing the filter at the same time, but again, you have what appears to be a well reviewed gearbox specialist nearby so get a quote from them.

Right, I'm off to pick up my order. Whatever you decide to do I'm sure it'll go well. Most of all, enjoy the car for what it is.

[ahmed24]

The water pump job, that does sound like the dealer price. But it is very expensive. The water pump itself is a cheap part just the labour involved in changing it really. Depending on your DIY skills, it can be done yourself. I took the oppertunity to change the thermostat at the same time as the thermostat isn't an expensive part either. Depending on your mileage I would change the radiator pressure cap as it's quite common for the mechanism inside to break and fall into the pipework. 

Regarding transmission service. Sealed for life transmissions is a debate that is going on for ages across many forums and many car brands including BMW. I often recommend a read of the following post: https://www.baydiagnostic.com/bmw-lifetime-transmission-fluid it's an interesting read.

I've been servicing my transmission ever since it hit 100k. But in hindsight I should have really started much before. My car is just under 200k miles now with the original transmission. If you look after your transmission it can last you a very long time. If you start servicing your transmission when things start going wrong then unfornately by then some damage may already have occured. I always use Genuine Toyota WS ATF fluid.

The dealer prices you've been quoted are insane. But it is dealership price at the end of the day.

In regards to coolant change. a full coolant change takes just over 9L of Toyota Super Long Life pink coolant. The process of draining inolves draining coolant from both banks of the V engine blocks too. So it is a little extra work. The pink coolant itself will cost you between £50-£70 depending on where you get it from. Then the labour to drain and refill and bleed depending on your garage labour prices.

[m4rkw]

@mattyt1991 if the transmission hasn't been serviced already by 86k I would suggest doing that immediately if you plan to keep it a long time. Ideally it should have been done at 50k so is overdue. Definitely have the filter changed, if anyone says the word "flush" - run away (see this page for more info: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/168).

I just had mine changed by Toyotec, cost about £300 (including the filter).

I changed mine when I bought my car with 77k on it, almost certainly had never been changed. 20k miles later I had a vibration at idle in gear from the transmission. Just had the fluid changed again and it's thankfully gone away, but it was likely due to the first change being delayed. A drain and fill never gets all the fluid out.

[m4rkw]

@mattyt1991 Just re-read your original message, do not use anything other than the original fluid recommended by Lexus. It's so cheap in the grand scheme of things there's just really no reason to take risks with something as critical and expensive as a transmission.

If it were my car I would only take it to a Toyota/Lexus specialist for the fluid change, not a generic gearbox place that services all makes and models. Not saying this would happen at the place you mentioned, but I think your odds of having it done improperly are higher at a place that doesn't specialise in those cars. I have a local garage that I trust to change my engine oil and do minor stuff but when it comes to anything critical like the transmission I'm taking it to Toyotec in Redhill.

[ahmed24]

15 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

A drain and fill never gets all the fluid out.

Agreed, a basic drain and fill doesn't. Dropping the pan and changing the filter will help a bit more. I do a primary drain and fill and run up to temperature then do another drain and fill and then do the fluid level check using the Lexus/Toyota procedure.

7 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

but when it comes to anything critical like the transmission I'm taking it to Toyotec in Redhill.

The filter and oil change isn't really rocket science. Any transmission place can do this easily. As long as you you use Genuine WS ATF. The main thing is that the correct level check procedure is followed. The key to checking fluid level is the oil being at the correct temperature so that the fluid displaces the right volume. Too hot and your fluid level will end up low. Too cold and its overfull.

[mattyt1991]

52 minutes ago, ahmed24 said:

The water pump job, that does sound like the dealer price. But it is very expensive. The water pump itself is a cheap part just the labour involved in changing it really. Depending on your DIY skills, it can be done yourself. I took the oppertunity to change the thermostat at the same time as the thermostat isn't an expensive part either. Depending on your mileage I would change the radiator pressure cap as it's quite common for the mechanism inside to break and fall into the pipework. 

Regarding transmission service. Sealed for life transmissions is a debate that is going on for ages across many forums and many car brands including BMW. I often recommend a read of the following post: https://www.baydiagnostic.com/bmw-lifetime-transmission-fluid it's an interesting read.

I've been servicing my transmission ever since it hit 100k. But in hindsight I should have really started much before. My car is just under 200k miles now with the original transmission. If you look after your transmission it can last you a very long time. If you start servicing your transmission when things start going wrong then unfornately by then some damage may already have occured. I always use Genuine Toyota WS ATF fluid.

The dealer prices you've been quoted are insane. But it is dealership price at the end of the day.

In regards to coolant change. a full coolant change takes just over 9L of Toyota Super Long Life pink coolant. The process of draining inolves draining coolant from both banks of the V engine blocks too. So it is a little extra work. The pink coolant itself will cost you between £50-£70 depending on where you get it from. Then the labour to drain and refill and bleed depending on your garage labour prices.

What a minefield! Some say do it so prolong life, others say don't do it unless you are prepared to pay for a new transmission!

[mattyt1991]

2 minutes ago, ahmed24 said:

Agreed, a basic drain and fill doesn't. Dropping the pan and changing the filter will help a bit more. I do a primary drain and fill and run up to temperature then do another drain and fill and then do the fluid level check using the Lexus/Toyota procedure.

The filter and oil change isn't really rocket science. Any transmission place can do this easily. As long as you you use Genuine WS ATF. The main thing is that the correct level check procedure is followed. The key to checking fluid level is the oil being at the correct temperature so that the fluid displaces the right volume. Too hot and your fluid level will end up low. Too cold and its overfull.

I can see myself paying over the odds for Lexus to change the ATF and filter to be honest... I don't want to but I guess there is just no way you can be sure an indy is going to follow procedure and it seems like it can cause major issues if not done perfectly...

[ahmed24]

1 minute ago, mattyt1991 said:

I guess there is just no way you can be sure an indy is going to follow procedure and it seems like it can cause major issues if not done perfectly...

That is very true. It's very hard to know. But often you could ask them what procedure they will use to check the correct fluid level. If they describe it as bringing it up to the correct temperature and then removing the overflow plug, then usually that's a sign they know the procedure. There are multiple ways to check when the ATF gets to temperature. One method is using a procedure on the transmission level to make the lights on the instrument cluster light up in sequence to tell you when to remove the plug. The other is to just use a diagnostics tool that can read the ATF temperature. There is also the method to short two pins across the OBD port, but I use the Lexus techstream diagnostics.

[m4rkw]

5 minutes ago, mattyt1991 said:

What a minefield! Some say do it so prolong life, others say don't do it unless you are prepared to pay for a new transmission!

A proper service (drop pan, replace filter, drain and refill) can never hurt the transmission. If a person does this and their transmission goes out sometime later, it was the prior lack of service that killed it, not the service. "Sealed for life" is a meaningless term - they're correct that it'll last for the life of the transmission, because when that fluid's all burned up it's done.

[m4rkw]

8 minutes ago, mattyt1991 said:

I can see myself paying over the odds for Lexus to change the ATF and filter to be honest... I don't want to but I guess there is just no way you can be sure an indy is going to follow procedure and it seems like it can cause major issues if not done perfectly...

I trust Russell Birch a lot more than I trust a main dealer. Just because they have the logo doesn't mean they'll do a good job. Especially with servicing - those jobs are the first things the young trainee noobs will be doing. Others can correct me if this has changed but I think main dealer culture is to rush everything too, every job has a fixed billable time that the tech can bill for. Techs who get things done quicker than the official time can make more money, so they have a clear incentive to rush everything.

[ahmed24]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the transmission on our cars is the Aisin A960E. And if you look at Aisin recommendations, they actually say you need to change the fluid.

There is no such thing as a fluid for life. They really should have called it long-life fluid (like what they call their pink coolant). General wear and tear and heating of the fluid in normal use will eventually degrade the fluids ability to satisfactorily lubricate and cool the transmissions internal components. Also normal build up of matter in the fluid will eventually impair the ability of the filter to maintain clean fluid. Dirty fluid can also end up causing solenoid failures as when the filter is no longer effeciently filtering the fluid, small particles can go and clog the solenoids.

Regular maintenance can prevent premature wear.

[Alfalfa]

On 6/20/2020 at 2:40 PM, m4rkw said:

A proper service (drop pan, replace filter, drain and refill) can never hurt the transmission. If a person does this and their transmission goes out sometime later, it was the prior lack of service that killed it, not the service. "Sealed for life" is a meaningless term - they're correct that it'll last for the life of the transmission, because when that fluid's all burned up it's done.

The manufacturer of the Lexus is 250 gearbox rekomend 50000km Flushing intervall. I did a Flushing on my Is250 vith 250000km on the meter, without the detergent step in the Flushing,  also dropper the pan and changed the filter, i first drained the pan and refilled ( the repair shop dident hawe the right fittings to conect the Flushing mascine to the gearbox, ) maybe i noticed a difrence, maybe placebo. After Flushing a big difrence in the gearbox, before i could drive the car up hill on wery low rpm and the engine start shaking, now its not posible to do this beqause the gearbox vill gear down and increase the rpm.

 

[ahmed24]

I personally avoid transmission flushes. If transmission flushes are done at shorter intervals from new then yes it can prolong the life of the transmission. But the reality is that most people will follow the "manufacturers" sealed for life claims and not touch their transmission until some problems arise and then all of a sudden they start looking at transmission flush. A transmission that has not been serviced and starts to develop issues which then goes on to having a flush is at very high risk of failure after the flush. The idea of a flush is to completely clean out the transmission, but this dislodges a lot of buildup materials and in worn transmissions these build-up materials are actually helping to continue to just go on. The minute it is flushed some of those materials will end up in places it shouldn't too. One is probably better of adding some friction modifier to a worn transmission just to keep it going that little bit longer. I personally do a trickle fluid change every 20k/2years and a sump drop and filter change every 60k. Trickle change is simple, just drain, re-fill then run up to temperature. Then I repeat the step a few times and that dilutes the old fluid with some new fluid giving it a better chance.

Ofcourse this is my personal opinion and based on my personal experience of owning my car for 13 years and covering almost 200k miles on it. 

[mattyt1991]

So I have watched some videos of doing the ATF change and it looks like most garages should be able to do it I guess. But it is obvious that the fluid needs to be drained 3 or 4 times to get mostly new oil in the transmission. Is this something Lexus would do if I took it to them or would they just drain once, hence just replacing about a quarter of the fluid. 
Really just can’t decide if I should just leave it and take my chances or get this done!

 

also could someone please tell me what the difference between an oil change and flush is?

[ColinBarber]

A flush is where the new fluid is pushed through the transmission under pressure to get all the old fluid out. It is alleged that the high pressure could dislodge dirt and force it into the valve body, causing issues hence why some recommend against it - very few places in the UK would have a transmission flush device as the number of auto transmissions is low. The alternative is to let the transmission pump out the old fluid itself and add in new - this needs someone who knows what they are doing.

A Lexus dealer would probably only drain and refill once. No real point in paying Lexus high labour charges for this when and good mechanical could do it.

 

Maybe just get a pan drain once a year, that way it will keep on top of things.

[Alfalfa]

2 hours ago, ahmed24 said:

I personally avoid transmission flushes. If transmission flushes are done at shorter intervals from new then yes it can prolong the life of the transmission. But the reality is that most people will follow the "manufacturers" sealed for life claims and not touch their transmission until some problems arise and then all of a sudden they start looking at transmission flush. A transmission that has not been serviced and starts to develop issues which then goes on to having a flush is at very high risk of failure after the flush. The idea of a flush is to completely clean out the transmission, but this dislodges a lot of buildup materials and in worn transmissions these build-up materials are actually helping to continue to just go on. The minute it is flushed some of those materials will end up in places it shouldn't too. One is probably better of adding some friction modifier to a worn transmission just to keep it going that little bit longer. I personally do a trickle fluid change every 20k/2years and a sump drop and filter change every 60k. Trickle change is simple, just drain, re-fill then run up to temperature. Then I repeat the step a few times and that dilutes the old fluid with some new fluid giving it a better chance.

Ofcourse this is my personal opinion and based on my personal experience of owning my car for 13 years and covering almost 200k miles on it. 

My flushing was done bay only using the atf and not the cleaning stuff that is there vith normal flushing, advised bay Lexus to avoid that partikkels vill end up in bad places, have 4000km after the Flushing and so far so good.