Oil in gs450h

[Trosini]

Hi guys.

I have overpoured oil into my 08 gs450h by around 200ml (6.5L with a filter change), is that an issue that needs solving or I can leave that bit of extra without any repercussions ?

Thank you in advance.

[ColinBarber]

It probably isn't enough to cause any issues however if it was my vehicle I'd still take it out.

If the engine burns oil I'd probably leave it but all my Toyota engined vehicles never use oil so you will be overfilled until your next oil change.

[Britprius]

3 hours ago, Trosini said:

Hi guys.

I have overpoured oil into my 08 gs450h by around 200ml (6.5L with a filter change), is that an issue that needs solving or I can leave that bit of extra without any repercussions ?

Thank you in advance.

As Collin above says 200ml is not going to cause a problem, and I would leave it as is. If you wish to do something about it possibly the easiest way to drain a small amount is to undo the oil filter, and then refit. 

John.

[Mihanicos]

A higher oil level than the maximum, when the engine is at normal operating temperature, will cause the oil pump to deliver oil at a higher pressure. The decisive factor is the head of the oil and not the amount on the suction side of the pump. This in turn will cause oil to enter the combustion chambers which will be burnt and pass through the catalytic converters.

This in turn, in the long run, will shorten their life and they are expensive to replace and a very difficult job to do.

I would drain from the drain plug when the oil is warm. The drain plug is accessible and you do not have to remove the 7 screws of the shield to access the oil filter.

Chris

[GS300h2014]

What does it look like on the dipstick & are you measuring it when the engine is hot or cold?

[Hangie]

5 hours ago, Mihanicos said:

A higher oil level than the maximum, when the engine is at normal operating temperature, will cause the oil pump to deliver oil at a higher pressure. The decisive factor is the head of the oil and not the amount on the suction side of the pump. This in turn will cause oil to enter the combustion chambers which will be burnt and pass through the catalytic converters.

This in turn, in the long run, will shorten their life and they are expensive to replace and a very difficult job to do.

I would drain from the drain plug when the oil is warm. The drain plug is accessible and you do not have to remove the 7 screws of the shield to access the oil filter.

Chris

I'm not sure if extra 1cm will change pressure on pump inlet in any significant way.

What I'm sure though is the oil aeration and foaming, which will happen due to crankshaft rotation. As a result you might loose pressure and flow which will end up as a damage. 

Above is of course only valid for wet oil sumps which GS got.

 There is quite big margin before it will happen so 100ml or 200ml shouldn't make any difference. Just make sure your spark plugs/combustion is good and your engine don't add  extra fuel into oil over time 🙂

 

[Trosini]

16 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

It probably isn't enough to cause any issues however if it was my vehicle I'd still take it out.

If the engine burns oil I'd probably leave it but all my Toyota engined vehicles never use oil so you will be overfilled until your next oil change.

Haven't had it for long enough to find out if it burns oil. 

The place that I got it from, had it overfilled when I bought it, based on the dipstick.

13 hours ago, Britprius said:

As Collin above says 200ml is not going to cause a problem, and I would leave it as is. If you wish to do something about it possibly the easiest way to drain a small amount is to undo the oil filter, and then refit. 

John.

This is what interests me, the margin of error that the engine is happy to operate in, hence I was curious what is the general consensus on this topic.

5 hours ago, Mihanicos said:

A higher oil level than the maximum, when the engine is at normal operating temperature, will cause the oil pump to deliver oil at a higher pressure. The decisive factor is the head of the oil and not the amount on the suction side of the pump. This in turn will cause oil to enter the combustion chambers which will be burnt and pass through the catalytic converters.

This in turn, in the long run, will shorten their life and they are expensive to replace and a very difficult job to do.

I would drain from the drain plug when the oil is warm. The drain plug is accessible and you do not have to remove the 7 screws of the shield to access the oil filter.

Chris

Don't have access to getting underneath it, I'm afraid. I am aware of syringes and hoses too, but this is a one off error due to misreading a few forum posts in other forums and don't want to buy items that won't be used often enough.

Obviously an easy option is to get back to where it was done, but trying to figure out whether it's really needed.

3 hours ago, GS300h2014 said:

What does it look like on the dipstick & are you measuring it when the engine is hot or cold?

Still trying to figure out which are smears of the dipstick's travelling through the shaft and which are readings, but at the moment it's parked up on a non flat surface and I won't be using the car today or so, to go and measure it again. I measured it a few minutes after turning the engine off and if my interpretation of readings was correct, it was just about / slightly above the max level.

Although it helps knowing the exact amount of oil poured in, as that was measured precisely to 6.5L 0w30 in this case as I did my research on this forum and decided to stick to 0w30 for this change and reevaluate if needed.

19 minutes ago, Hangie said:

I'm not sure if extra 1cm will change pressure on pump inlet in any significant way.

What I'm sure though is the oil aeration and foaming, which will happen due to crankshaft rotation. As a result you might loose pressure and flow which will end up as a damage. 

Above is of course only valid for wet oil sumps which GS got.

 There is quite big margin before it will happen so 100ml or 200ml shouldn't make any difference. Just make sure your spark plugs/combustion is good and your engine don't add  extra fuel into oil over time 🙂

 

I see, on paper it sounds good and would be pretty convenient to postpone the drainage to my next service, although it's hard to predict whether it will happen sooner, than later.

If you would have to guess, what is that margin in these vehicles? I know that type of question might be frowned upon, but I don't think it has been discussed yet.

 

Don't get me wrong guys, I love the car and she will be looked after well, but I have a bit of time constraints at the moment and have been tidying it up as much as I could, during the weeks that I had it.

I am not a big diy guy, so taking it a step at a time, but the curiosity of the engine tolerance for error got me on here :) .

Looks like I am at the right place.

Thank you so much.

[johnatg]

14 minutes ago, Trosini said:

Although it helps knowing the exact amount of oil poured in, as that was measured precisely to 6.5L 0w30 in this case as I did my research on this forum and decided to stick to 0w30 for this change and reevaluate if needed.

 

That 6.5L is largely irrelevant once the car is in service. That's because it's the capacity of a dry engine and you never have that. Some oil always remains in the engine when you drain it. You should always fill an engine (or gearbox) with about a litre or so less than the stated capacity, then top up gradually to the exact measure on the dipstick. Many manufacturers recommend that you don't worry about getting to the max level - it should ideally be just anywhere between the max and min marks. That's because of the danger to the cats (as mentioned above) if the high level is exceeded

[rich1068]

Easiest thing if you're not a DIY kind of guy (ie getting under it) is to get your hands on the Ultimate Speed oil pump (Google it). They were selling them recently at Lidl for not very much. I picked up a couple to use at work on the vans. Engine oil warm not hot, one tube down the dipstick, one tube into a container, connect to the Battery terminals and switch on. Easy.

[Hangie]

Few years back I got similar issue. The simplest method was to buy syringe (50ml) and long plastic hose (length of dip stick ideal).

Just put it through dip stick down to oil sump and suck back unwanted oil.

[Trosini]

Cheers guys.

Gonna get it fixed.

[Britprius]

2 hours ago, Hangie said:

I'm not sure if extra 1cm will change pressure on pump inlet in any significant way.

What I'm sure though is the oil aeration and foaming, which will happen due to crankshaft rotation. As a result you might loose pressure and flow which will end up as a damage. 

Above is of course only valid for wet oil sumps which GS got.

 There is quite big margin before it will happen so 100ml or 200ml shouldn't make any difference. Just make sure your spark plugs/combustion is good and your engine don't add  extra fuel into oil over time 🙂

 

I agree that raising the oil level buy what will be an amount almost unmeasurable on the dipstick will have no impact what so ever on the engine oil pressure. If there were any increase "which there will not be" the oil pressure release valve will adjust the pressure accordingly.
The overfill of 200ml represents a 3% of capacity, and is probably a smaller measurement than the difference in sump capacity along with dipstick tolerance in production. 

As you correctly state over filling in exstream circumstances can lead to oil foaming, and this in turn can lead to a reduction in oil pressure. To put the OP's mind at rest the amount of overfill in this case is insignificant.

John.