June 9th - 2021 Lexus IS

[Mincey]

OK I'll say it. A Lexus with a BMW engine does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. 

[Overland]

1 hour ago, Mincey said:

OK I'll say it. A Lexus with a BMW engine does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. 

Let me say I am with you.


 

[ThomasD94]

2 hours ago, Mincey said:

OK I'll say it. A Lexus with a BMW engine does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. 

Same here

[rayaans]

The date has been amended to June 15th now

Quite clear from the little teaser that the mirrors and wheels are different.

C pillar is definitely different to the current IS including the fuel filler cap. 

[ghost_killer]

18 hours ago, mpls said:

I think someone has revealed that the new IS is built on a new a Toyota platform  TNGA: TNGA-N

taken from wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_IS#Fourth_generation_(2020)

Interesting to see a 2.4 Litre engione from Subaru and a 3 litre BMW engone from BMW, probably same one as in the Supra.

Anyway EU/UK will see none of it...

 

Engine	2.0 L 8AR-FTS turbocharged I4 2.4 L Subaru FA24F / 4U-GTE turbocharged H4 3.0 L BMW B58B30 turbocharged I6 2.5 L A25A-FXS I4 (hybrid)
Transmission	8-speed AA81E automatic

 

On Wikipedia it has something completely different to above and still doesn't add up (yep I know anyone can add/edit stuff there)

Doesn't mention BMW engine or a Subaru 2.4 but mentions a 3.5 V6 Hybrid (for a IS500h) and a 3.4 V6 (for the IS500) - I thought they are going to use the 5.0 V8 for the last time on a IS500 ? and it's a refresh (facelift) so can't be a TNGA platform !! I guess soon we'll know !! But please don't use a BMW engine !!!! Seeing it's just a 'refresh' I'll wonder if it's beyond the realms of possibility that a brand new IS whenever that happens if it happens would be introduced in Europe in future....

However the ES really needs a 3.5 V6 even as a hybrid so Lexus should at least offer that !!!

 

[wharfhouse]

6 minutes ago, ghost_killer said:

On Wikipedia it has something completely different to above and still doesn't add up (yep I know anyone can add/edit stuff there)

Doesn't mention BMW engine or a Subaru 2.4 but mentions a 3.5 V6 Hybrid (for a IS500h) and a 3.4 V6 (for the IS500) - I thought they are going to use the 5.0 V8 for the last time on a IS500 ? and it's a refresh (facelift) so can't be a TNGA platform !! I guess soon we'll know !! But please don't use a BMW engine !!!! Seeing it's just a 'refresh' I'll wonder if it's beyond the realms of possibility that a brand new IS whenever that happens if it happens would be introduced in Europe in future....

However the ES really needs a 3.5 V6 even as a hybrid so Lexus should at least offer that !!!

 

Yes really need a better upcoming model plan from Lexus if they want us to start planning buying replacements - I am considering what to do in the next couple of years but now don't have a clue what to plan for... 

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes really need a better upcoming model plan from Lexus if they want us to start planning buying replacements - I am considering what to do in the next couple of years but now don't have a clue what to plan for... 

A good idea Phil to plan ahead, but don`t in these uncertain times,forget to build in a contingency for not having a job!

[Overland]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

The date has been amended to June 15th now

Quite clear from the little teaser that the mirrors and wheels are different.

C pillar is definitely different to the current IS including the fuel filler cap. 

Beautiful indeed

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

A good idea Phil to plan ahead, but don`t in these uncertain times,forget to build in a contingency for not having a job!

Haha yes - though as I have my own business, destiny is to some extent in my own hands! 

[gdh300]

I've seen the rumour about BMW engines finding their way into Lexus on few websites. Even I think, a joint development Mazda was mentioned somewhere, so who knows! I suppose it would make financial sense to share bigger petrol engines for the few years remaining of the pure-ICE market. 

When the new Supra came-out, I saw this interesting video which got into the background of the works between BMW and Toyota. Talk about the chosen engines - relevant or not to the new IS - starts at about 8m05s.  

 

 

[mpls]

Seen that video.. the new IS will have 4 engine options, two from Toyota, one from subaru and one from BMW..

[mpls]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

The date has been amended to June 15th now

Quite clear from the little teaser that the mirrors and wheels are different.

C pillar is definitely different to the current IS including the fuel filler cap. 

Video looks real, but i think the two photos looks fake. looks like the rear of the Pre 2017 IS (before facelift), notice the rear lights

[mpls]

3 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes really need a better upcoming model plan from Lexus if they want us to start planning buying replacements - I am considering what to do in the next couple of years but now don't have a clue what to plan for... 

 

Yes agree.. BMW will be coming out with upto 62Miles of EV range in their new PHEvs, not sure which one.

BMW are coming out with a range PHEVs, EVs as well as still flogging existing polluting diesels and petrols.. Yes BMW are a volume manufacturer, and Lexus are supposed to be a low volume ( so we are told though confirmed by sales figuresin the EU/UK). But Lexus in the EU/UK end up cutting products lines due to low sales. But Lexus aren't exactly low volume in the USA.. It is actually utter failure for Lexus EU/UK for not incresing sales.. afterall how did USA start, from lowly position.  If Lexus were to have a magic wand. I;m sure they really want higher sales in the EU/UK.

[rayaans]

3 hours ago, mpls said:

Video looks real, but i think the two photos looks fake. looks like the rear of the Pre 2017 IS (before facelift), notice the rear lights

The photos are real. 

Just a comparison between the old and new IS in terms of the C pillar. Quite a stark difference. As is the fuel filler cap. The shoulders look a lot more curvy 

[Shada]

Not keen on the rear light strip across the boot either. 

It's not clear from the pics but appears to have lost the saloon car look. More like an evogue at the rear corners. 

So far I'm not excited. 

[Shada]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:08 AM, rayaans said:

That's just not true 

Wich part? 

[Overland]

This is an interesting survey on Tesla Model 3 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/

concerning low volume in EU, I agree that Lexus surely would have bigger and more stable base of customer, but to be honest their  strategy seems wrong since the beginning.

I don’t think the responsibility at the beginning was of the Japanese head offices, probably they have trust to some EU marketing department, but if we want to be honest, there was lot of mistakes and they did not take care.

- the mistake of Diesel version

- the mistake of not very reliable early generation of some models

- the mistake of communication, too much focused in art and weird concept that probably even the “Lexus Enthusiast” does not understand

- the mistake of explaining to who does not know the hybrid engine how it work (self charging, electrified and so on)

- the mistake of moving everything under Toyota hat, even the customer service.

and so on.

It’s normal the market decrease.

It’s a pity.

 

[ColinBarber]

Lexus has never had a larger market share in the UK as it does now so they probably feel they are on the right track. Individual opinion on these forums isn't from their target demographic.

Lexus is never going to be mainstream, not whilst the 10% import tariff from Japan to Europe exists on vehicles (actually I think it is 9.2% now but will take 12 more years for it to disappear completely). Just too difficult to be competitive and provide the vehicle range and options that people are looking for.

[mpls]

12 hours ago, Overland said:

This is an interesting survey on Tesla Model 3 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/

concerning low volume in EU, I agree that Lexus surely would have bigger and more stable base of customer, but to be honest their  strategy seems wrong since the beginning.

I don’t think the responsibility at the beginning was of the Japanese head offices, probably they have trust to some EU marketing department, but if we want to be honest, there was lot of mistakes and they did not take care.

- the mistake of Diesel version

- the mistake of not very reliable early generation of some models

- the mistake of communication, too much focused in art and weird concept that probably even the “Lexus Enthusiast” does not understand

- the mistake of explaining to who does not know the hybrid engine how it work (self charging, electrified and so on)

- the mistake of moving everything under Toyota hat, even the customer service.

and so on.

It’s normal the market decrease.

It’s a pity.

 

 

Actually the only blip on quality for lexus was the  diesel, though for me it was very good.. On the whole, UK hasn't gone  the route of Italy in mov9iing the customer service over to Toyota dealership etc..

 

 

[mpls]

10 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Lexus has never had a larger market share in the UK as it does now so they probably feel they are on the right track. Individual opinion on these forums isn't from their target demographic.

Lexus is never going to be mainstream, not whilst the 10% import tariff from Japan to Europe exists on vehicles (actually I think it is 9.2% now but will take 12 more years for it to disappear completely). Just too difficult to be competitive and provide the vehicle range and options that people are looking for.

 

Indeed market share in the UK is the highest it has ever been, only because it has slowly been neglecting its core enthusiasts  by slowly moving more into more ranges of SUVs. and hence gaining a new range of customers who would not have nornally gone for Lexus. However at the rate of Lexus development they too will become disillusion, just like I have after owning 2 lexus, not that I will be selling any time soon though. For me as a 40 something (as well other age ranges) , surely I'm one of the targets of Lexus for custom.

Lexus is mainstream ( though only in the USA). The EU as a whole is a big economy. bigger than USA. Surely the target of Lexus is for larger sales in th EU and maybe even to surpass the USA. In order to do that Lexus EU/UK need to do a much better job, ask for what it wants to be successful. Lexus HQ need to shock EU/UK into action, because the way they are going about things with self charging, it  will not take them very far when people wake up to the nonsense in this day and age..

 

 

 

 

The 10% import tariff will end as EU and Japan have come up with a trade deal. hence why Honda is closing its Uk factory in anticipation.

 

 

[mpls]

22 hours ago, rayaans said:

The photos are real. 

Just a comparison between the old and new IS in terms of the C pillar. Quite a stark difference. As is the fuel filler cap. The shoulders look a lot more curvy 

Sorry , yes my mistake

[ganzoom]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:14 PM, rayaans said:

Lexus sales in Europe are going fine to be honest. 

The NX450h+ is a plug in and will use the RAV4 prime drivetrain. It's coming next year

This is what's been built in a German forest right now.....

 

And this the product that the factory will churn out in 10Ks....

.....and this is how much discount the Germany government is going to give you for buying one....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2020/06/04/germany-boost-ev-incentives-9000-euros-helping-tesla-model-3-vw-id-3/amp/

Lexus are fast running out of time to come up with a decent EV to compete in the premium market. Audi are about to go on full attack with the eTron sports back and GT pretty much ready, BMW will have the electric X3, Mercedes the EQ range.

If Lexus thinks a plug in NX will compete in this market landscape just by using the phrase 'self charging' they are going to see their customer base melt away.

Our IS300H is a fantastic reliable car, but we aren't keeping it because we love more than any other car, we are keeping it because it's cheap own and we rather use spare capital on a house renovation right now.

Ask to me where I would put £40k right now into a new car and it woudlnt be another combustion car.

The conservative nature o Lexus really is going to struggle in the brave new world of EVs, our Tesla maybe unreliable but since we took delivery in 2017 its got:

• quicker at charging - peaking at 120KW rather than 100KW
• faster 0-60 time, 4.9second from 6 seconds
• can now use CCS rapid charging
• new features like driver entry/pin lock to drive/more phone app features etc etc
• Very soon itll have a new Autopilot computer retrofitted to potentially allow for FSD
• If I wanted to I can pay for a full media unit retrofit to allow for YouTube/Netflix media to play on the 17inch screen

Our IS300H on the other hand remains the same car as it was at delivery- with slightly less laggy sat nav.

Lexus seem to have little USP apart from reliability at the moment, and on balance for me (and I suspect many others), innovation will trump reliability on the premium car front.

What's interesting is the same company that builds our unreliable X is also the same company that just launched 2 astronauts into space whilst landing the booster rocket on a ship. So I suspect if Elon Musk really wanted to focus on improving Tesla reliability they could do it in a very short period of time, building resuable rockets I would think demands much more quality control than any car. But can anyone here see Lexus ever been as innovative as a company like Tesla???

Lexus really needs to get a grip on their brand image, because for the next generation growing current there is only one car brand they care about, and even though Tesla doesn't spend a $ on conventional advertising when the international media show off your products constantly why would you need to :).

This is what Lexus is competing against in the premium sectors, the biggest disruptor to the car industry for a centry, VAG got it a while ago, Mercedes gets it, even Ford understands by trying to move their Mustand brand to EVs, Lexus response so far has been to stick some batteries in the UX and call it a day.

[i-s]

The numbers speak for themselves.

Lexus UK sales 2020 Jan-May (all 10 current models): 4612 (https://media.lexus.co.uk/2020/06/lexus-vehicle-sales-figures-1990-2019-2/)

Tesla UK model 3 sales in March 2020 alone: 4718.  (https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/06/4718-tesla-model-3-sales-in-march-help-push-uk-ev-market-share-to-record-7-3/) 

Although April and May were very bizarrely impacted months for car sales, model 3 was the best selling car in the UK for both months:

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/new-car-registrations-april-2020-decline/

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2020/06/uk-new-car-sales-down-89-0-in-may-as-click-and-collect-sparks-hope-ahead-of-showroom-re-opening/

In those months they've moved another 1500 units, and deliveries are (anecdotally, based on what I'm seeing on owners groups - but remember that March, June, September and December are big delivery months for Tesla with the way they do things) higher for June. 

There is every chance that in 2020 the model 3 alone will out-sell all Lexus models combined in the UK. When model Y arrives and starts taking RX and NX buyers away then maybe they will begin to understand...

Like @ganzoom, our Model 3 has gained, since we got it in August:

• Increased peak charge speed from 100 to 170kW 
• Increased power 5%, 0-62 from 5.6 to 5.2
• Sentry mode, 4-channel dashcam

Whenever I go out I have the choice between our 2015 GS450h and our Model 3 SR+. I prefer the model 3. 

Lexus, please please please please hurry up and give us some cars with the following:

• 50kWh+ Battery packs with 200kW+ motors
• >125kW charge rates. 50kW in the UX300e is pathetic in 2020. 
• A decent infotainment system with over-the-air updates

One note on ganzoom's post - SpaceX and Tesla are two separate companies. They have the same CEO, and they share one other employee (Charles Kuehmann, material scientist). Of course, they do work closely together on a number of things, but they are different companies.

[Overland]

47 minutes ago, i-s said:

The numbers speak for themselves.

Lexus UK sales 2020 Jan-May (all 10 current models): 4612 (https://media.lexus.co.uk/2020/06/lexus-vehicle-sales-figures-1990-2019-2/)

Tesla UK model 3 sales in March 2020 alone: 4718.  (https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/06/4718-tesla-model-3-sales-in-march-help-push-uk-ev-market-share-to-record-7-3/) 

Although April and May were very bizarrely impacted months for car sales, model 3 was the best selling car in the UK for both months:

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/new-car-registrations-april-2020-decline/

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2020/06/uk-new-car-sales-down-89-0-in-may-as-click-and-collect-sparks-hope-ahead-of-showroom-re-opening/

In those months they've moved another 1500 units, and deliveries are (anecdotally, based on what I'm seeing on owners groups - but remember that March, June, September and December are big delivery months for Tesla with the way they do things) higher for June. 

There is every chance that in 2020 the model 3 alone will out-sell all Lexus models combined in the UK. When model Y arrives and starts taking RX and NX buyers away then maybe they will begin to understand...

Like @ganzoom, our Model 3 has gained, since we got it in August:

• Increased peak charge speed from 100 to 170kW 
• Increased power 5%, 0-62 from 5.6 to 5.2
• Sentry mode, 4-channel dashcam

Whenever I go out I have the choice between our 2015 GS450h and our Model 3 SR+. I prefer the model 3. 

Lexus, please please please please hurry up and give us some cars with the following:

• 50kWh+ battery packs with 200kW+ motors
• >125kW charge rates. 50kW in the UX300e is pathetic in 2020. 
• A decent infotainment system with over-the-air updates

One note on ganzoom's post - SpaceX and Tesla are two separate companies. They have the same CEO, and they share one other employee (Charles Kuehmann, material scientist). Of course, they do work closely together on a number of things, but they are different companies.

I can only agree with you.

Said and defined with no doubt that I love my IS300H MY2017 and that I have another year to stay with her, with pleasure as since the beginning this is my most appreciated design, next may I will face the worst case: 

1. pay 15.000€ and keep the car (I am sure it will last for another 10 years and maybe during this time, my passion for car design, technology and Japanese car will decrease)
2. give back the car and continue to pay per drive a new Lexus (but what?)
3. give back car and keep the 15.000€ in my pocket to pay the deposit for a tesla model 3 or ... who know?

It's early to think about it? I don't know, for sure the lack of a new IS or another model of Lexus modern, advanced and in touch with the need of the new market put me in the position of thinking.

Also, it is important to say that I don't see at the moment (or I am not so much interested) to come back to German cars, even if electric and absolutely not any type of Korean, Italian or European car.
 

[dutchie01]

Cris i fully agree. I really would like to stick to the brand but i left already currently driving a Volvo. After an IS250 and 300H i wanted to stay with Lexus but did not want another 300H and could not find another model to my liking. Tried the NX but found it underpowered, tried an XC 40 and that was that. Now again in 1.5 yrs it will be time to change vehicle and yes i would like to come back to Lexus. But what model? The position in the market has changed for Lexus. 10yrs ago the 250 was a car that stood out from the competition with buildquality and especially NVH. Those were the usp of Lexus but no longer. Apart from beeing exclusive i struggle in finding what Lexus stands for nowadays, what does it offer the competition can or does not offer, no idea really. As i dont like the German brands i will be eying Tesla as well.