came from China and are not as well engineered as the oem originals but at £20 for the pair I thought I would take a punt.

[Malc]

Guys and girls  I hope I'm not going to be too controversial here in raising this at this time

We all love cheapness and great value for money BUT in that, as we now see with China, there's a likely terrible price to pay

I'm not talking of Coronavirus coz the world is still " out " on that one prior to some sort of sensible investigation

BUT  I am deeply concerned for this latest proposal on Hong Kong, to effectively abandon the China and international agreement to protect the almost independence of HK and it's people at the time of the UK lease on that state coming to an end

Zero consultation now with the people of Hong Kong and a wanton disregard for " freedoms " of the millions of people there

I know that the UK itself never shone in glory around it's refusal to honour the Blue Passport of those citizens but that was all, to the then tremendous benefit, and wisdom of Canada ( at least ), in welcoming those effective refugees with open arms and now seeing Vancouver as a niche mini state and with tremendous ex Hong Kong persons energy, intellect wealth and vigour.

I for one will be seriously ensuring that where possible any influence I may have avoids trading with Chinese imports and production

Malc

 

If Monitors deem this inappropriate and remove it i will understand of course

 

[bernieeccles]

This post bears no relation to the header or am I missing something.

[Malc]

I simply took that from a prior post that I was reading and thought a little about the China suply issues for us members in the future

that's all folks

Malc

[Herbie]

9 minutes ago, Malc said:

I simply took that from a prior post that I was reading and thought a little about the China suply issues for us members in the future

that's all folks

Malc

So what did you buy for £20?

 

[Malc]

it was 

Ls400 Bonnet gas struts ...............................  that another member bought and there's some current stuff with this post in the Ls400 forum 

that's where I picked it up from and just got my mind wandering to the Chinese supply manufactured and supply chain that's currently with us

Malc

[Barry14UK]

The quality of Chinese goods can vary greatly.  They have the advantage of low labour costs and very large sales.  Also, much of their stuff is copied from external manufacturers.  The Government does little about this, in fact on a visit we were taken to a Government shop where it was obvious that the article I was interested in was an inferior copy of a well known brand.  But as regards mechanical parts, some I have purchased have been quite good whereas some are poor, so you buy knowing this.  At present there is a degree of resistance to buying Chinese goods because of what LED to the pandemic and because of the Chinese Government's attitude towards Hong Kong.  There are others that shun Chinese goods because of the human rights issues.  However, lower prices of Chinese goods is still going to be an overriding  consideration.

I remember how largely due to atrocities by the Japanese during the second World War many people avoided Japanese goods.  However,  over time people gradually overcame their reluctance  to buy Japanese goods as they offered a lot for the money and quality soon became good and in some cases exceptional. 

I don't expect there will be so many broad based improvements in Chinese products as with the Japanese manufacturers but I think reluctance to purchase will be outweighed by the price of their goods so these are only going to be slightly dented unless World Governments take a more interventionist stance.  

I 

[Malc]

1 hour ago, Barry14UK said:

take a more interventionist stance.  

I 

then that's usually tarrifs tarrifs and more tarrifs ......  conscience rarely works sadly

just look at the recent Saudi debacle with the murder of that journalist in the embassy ....  at the behest of a member of the Saudi royal family

and oil purchases from Saudi  go on as ever willy nilly

Govt consciences rarely have any lasting impact sadly  .......  and if they do then they lean towards stupid wars and all sense and reason then goes out of the window 

it's all so exasperating and does nothing for the fate of those poor citizens in HK right now who are likely to be totally shafted in the name of World Govt and commerce

 

My household will, where it knows it can, stop buying from China

Malc

[Garth-1]

Malc is right in raising a moral dilemma.  I have 2 German cars and 1 Japanese, all non-ULEZ compliant, so I intend to replace one of them next year with a ULEZ compliant car.  But I have recently started to think about (a) the barbaric Japanese cruelty in WW2 (b) the Germans killing us in WW2 (c) the present totatlitarian bullying of China, Should I rule out German brands, Japanese brands and Volvo?  Should I buy a car which poses no moral problems, such as a French one.  Would buying a British-made Japanese brand be acceptable?  (Civic, Corolla, Qashqai?).  Unfortunately Jaguar Land-Rover are too unreliable.  Would anyone else take account of moral considerations when buying a car?

[Malc]

I think the WW11 dilemmas have now been resolved with various global ( USA ) Marshall Aid  etc funding at the time made to those nations ( and the UK )  especially in recompense for the damage done by us / Allies  .....  the others had no money to pay for their own regeneration of course !

BUT that's past, the current dilemma, if one thinks it to be just a dilemma, is very real for the people and freedom of the Hong Kong populace in general

just for info .............India is now firmly preventing China influence in proposed businesses in India and will possibly make this retrospective too .......  it's all trying to stop the purposeful  world domination by China

Malc

[The-Acre]

A difficult one this. A few years ago we were encouraged to reconsider when buying cheap clothes from India, Bangladesh and other countries, but as it was pointed out, if we stop buying then the really poor people that manufacture the goods suffer most as their jobs disappear  We were called to contact the shops selling the items and ask them to pay the manufactures more and raise the price we pay.  Sadly I don't recall it happening.  Will the poorest people in China suffer more if the west stopped buying the goods.  Certainly after watching the documentary from China some while ago I would never buy an apple product! 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

Certainly after watching the documentary from China some while ago I would never buy an Apple product! 

Why would you single out apple when nearly every other tech company uses the same two or three assembly companies that employ the workers?

[The-Acre]

20 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Why would you single out Apple when nearly every other tech company uses the same two or three assembly companies that employ the workers?

Simply because apple was the company in the documentary, and the biggest.

[Malc]

apple and others could wisely transfer production capacity to the world's largest democracy ( India ) until at least the China regime brings more global sense to the table and stops bullying to death the freedom and the people of Hong Kong

I'm really concerned that China is really quite intent on stupid world domination and a simple turning of the screw on Hong Kong even more, thinking covid etc as a diversion will stop the world from taking notice and action ....  it's a slippery slope and I know we cannot do a great deal to help freedoms 

BUT

we can stop supporting the rtegime by turning our spending power elsewhere

Reading yesterday that Tesla is negotiating with China for Tesla world domination of a new type of Battery product supply ......  hope it's not catching this mullarkey

Malc

[RgrWynne]

I totally agree with the views and sentiment over the treatment of Hong Kong. China are actually breaking legally binding treaties , which is one of the most sacrosanct controls that exist in this World order. It is up to the United  Nations to act, but I doubt they will show any teeth. I do think this whole situation is going to get ugly, not helped of course by Trump, who isolates his allies, just at the time he needs them. Whilst I will now try going forward to avoid buying anything Chinese, the reality as Barry points out, is that price for many buyers will be the overriding consideration. 
I think the good thing on the horizon, which has already started, is that production is starting to move from China to Vietnam. Nike have moved all of their production away from China, and would you believe wage costs in areas of Vietnam are 1/10th of those in China ( so I am informed) , but for how long I don’t know. 
India is going to be the one to watch, I hope. 
This is all heavy stuff for a Bank Holiday but I have enjoyed the opinions and this is mine, Cheers, Roger

[scudney]

Is China really doing anything that England/Britain or America didn't do at some point in their history?slave trade,deliberately drugging its own people,destabilizing governments of other countries etc etc,simple answer is no it's not,does one agree with it?I don't but we live in a hypocritical world. A lot of what we all buy comes from China and will continue to do for the foreseeable future,so do you cut off your nose to spite your face 🤔

[royoftherovers]

34 minutes ago, scudney said:

Is China really doing anything that England/Britain or America didn't do at some point in their history?slave trade,deliberately drugging its own people,destabilizing governments of other countries etc etc,simple answer is no it's not,does one agree with it?I don't but we live in a hypocritical world. A lot of what we all buy comes from China and will continue to do for the foreseeable future,so do you cut off your nose to spite your face 🤔

A lot of what we once bought John, was made in Birmingham

Then it was made in Taiwan and now China.

As Roger has indicated it may move to Vietnam and India or indeed elsewhare..

The factories of the World left U.K. and are now doing the rounds.

As far as the U.N. is concerned, I think that it is toothless. It was a fat lot of use in Bosnia for instance and with the Global Powers as was and is having the power of veto, will remain so.

As far as China is concerned my view is that it is unstoppable militarily and economically (although can be matched in both ).It is so important that the Western and supportive nations stand together to stand up to bullying tactics.

It`s demise will in my view come from within its own boundaries or from natural catastrophe.

[Malc]

25 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

It is so important that the Western and supportive nations stand together to stand up to bullying tactics.

that's the essence of it too I think

BUT we know in our hearts that western nations are useless at doing anything cohesively straightforward

AND this Hong Kong issue is today, right now and I really want to stop China somehow just riding roughshod over the people of HK

As I mentioned before, I shall try for my household to just STOP buying anything Chinese forthwith

Malc

[Malc]

1 hour ago, scudney said:

Is China really doing anything that England/Britain or America didn't do at some point in their history?

but China also did all this many thousands of years prior to Britain doing this stuff  ....  I discount the USA as it's just an offshoot of British Colonialism until independence just a few short years ago in world timeliness 

once upon a time Philadelphia was the third biggest city in the British Empire after Dublin and London 

Malc

[LexIS200Sport]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:03 AM, Garth-1 said:

Malc is right in raising a moral dilemma.  I have 2 German cars and 1 Japanese, all non-ULEZ compliant, so I intend to replace one of them next year with a ULEZ compliant car.  But I have recently started to think about (a) the barbaric Japanese cruelty in WW2 (b) the Germans killing us in WW2 (c) the present totatlitarian bullying of China, Should I rule out German brands, Japanese brands and Volvo?  Should I buy a car which poses no moral problems, such as a French one.  Would buying a British-made Japanese brand be acceptable?  (Civic, Corolla, Qashqai?).  Unfortunately Jaguar Land-Rover are too unreliable.  Would anyone else take account of moral considerations when buying a car?

Well, there's always Hyundai & Kia. Don't think South Korea ever invaded anyone in their history.

[RgrWynne]

I don’t think North Korea would totally subscribe to the sentiment of your viewpoint , but do understand them to be a peaceful nation 

[Malc]

13 minutes ago, LexIS200Sport said:

no moral problems, such as a French one

wot   !!!!  you never heard of Bonaparte or  Hastings in 1066    .............................  Wellington at Salamanca  Spain

The French colonialism in Vietnam before the USA  "  liberated  " them from the Chinese .....  or not 

sorry, I'm beginning to jest at my own post here, I KNOW all us nations are as bad as each other BUT the Chinese this time do seem to be taking some really really totally unacceptable strides in CRUSHING  the peoples of Hong Kong

Malc                 

[LexIS200Sport]

Umm... not sure I quoted that statement above, @Malc  😉

 

[Malc]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:03 AM, Garth-1 said:

no moral problems, such as a French one

how odd, I just highlighted and hit the quote button, as i have now and it popped with your name attached, how odd

Malc

[noby76]

Don't you just love a "click Bait" I seem to fall for it every time..

[Malc]

heaven only knows what's going on with China right now  .......  not just the tragedy that's emerging from Hong Kong

heard today that both Macau and Taiwan are about to be treated to much more Chinese influence and control ( takeover ) with China just amassing a further 5000 troops on the border with India at Sikkim ?

Chinese goods for me can just stay where they come from methinks

Malc