Refused Insurance

Phooey · May 13, 2020

September 2017 I had a motorcycle accident where a taxi cut across me and took me side on. Result was bike was right-off and I sustained leg injuries. I obviously claimed against his insurance and they admitted liability from the outset.

Now I have received the payout, why I decided to treat myself to my new Lexus, and this morning went to change insurance over to my new is300h that I shall collect tomorrow. They quoted nearly double the current policy and car so I decided to do an online comparison and would you believe it, my current insurer came out cheapest. A few pound cheaper than my Volvo (current car). So I called insurers and they couldn't match! They suggested I cancel the current policy and purchase the online comparison quote and they wouldn't charge the cancellation fee because I am going to take out a new policy.

Current policy cancelled I go back online and click the purchase button. 'Ooops! It looks like you already have a policy with us. Please call blah blah'

So now I am back on the phone and I am told, 'it could take up to a year for my current cancelled policy to be invisible to comparison sites! What a load of bo***cks!

I want to speak to someone else but of course, isolation means I have to go back into the loop and wait again. They decide to start from scratch as if it's a new policy - which of course it is. Give them all my details, identical to online comparison site and they refuse to insure me because my claim paid out more than £25k

Back to comparison site quotes and next quote which was actually £1 more all same details, and they accepted.

Now I am left with having to declare that I have had a motor insurance declined! Does anyone know how this may affect me in the future. To say I am livid at this moment is an understatement!

Thackeray · May 13, 2020

57 minutes ago, Phooey said:

they refuse to insure me because my claim paid out more than £25k

57 minutes ago, Phooey said:

Now I am left with having to declare that I have had a motor insurance declined!

I don't know the answer to this but I wonder what the definition is of "refuse to insure" or "decline insurance" or whatever it is they say in the application questions.

At first glance, it doesn't look as though they refused to insure you - they offered you a price to switch to your new car, which you didn't like the look of.

You then cancelled your policy and sought a new quote from them. At this point they declined to offer you a quote. I wonder if declining to offer a quote and refusing to insure are the same things - they might amount to different actions. It might be that it would be withdrawing the insurance that you currently have in force is what amounts to refusing to insure.

Can someone who understands these things provide a clarification of these points?

Phooey · May 13, 2020

28 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

I don't know the answer to this but I wonder what the definition is of "refuse to insure" or "decline insurance" or whatever it is they say in the application questions.

You then cancelled your policy and sought a new quote from them. At this point they declined to offer you a quote. I wonder if declining to offer a quote and refusing to insure are the same things - they might amount to different actions.

That is an interesting point. Actually, I only had the payout a couple of weeks ago so when I initially took out the policy last November, I didn't know what the payout would be so declared the claim and that I didn't know the payout value.

The lady on the phone didn't use the phrase 'refused insurance' just that because the payout was in excess of £25k they were unable to give me a quote.

I would welcome info from the knowledgeable and also, does this mean that I can NEVER get insurance from this particular company? In a couple of years I will not be required to declare the accident but will I still need to say I was 'refused' a quote?

EDIT: One point I might add that I have just thought about. Before I called my current provider I did an online comparison and they came out the cheapest and I declared all including the settlement value. They knew the value yet still provided an online quote. It was only when I rang that the difficulty in matching this online quote occurred (I suspect as a result of a mid term quote) that generated a 'start from scratch' and subsequent issue!

Malc · May 13, 2020

in my simple non professional opinion I would say

You have not been refused insurance at all ... they have simply declined to quote ............ two very very different legal concepts to my mind

Malc

Phooey · May 13, 2020

23 minutes ago, Malc said:

in my simple non professional opinion I would say

You have not been refused insurance at all ... they have simply declined to quote ............ two very very different legal concepts to my mind

Malc

Hopefully you are right, Malc. It is difficult to believe that insurance would be declined because I made a successful claim against a negligent driver.

RgrWynne · May 13, 2020

I think you need to be extremely careful here, it is not about opinion, it will rely on professional fact. I think if I were you I would consult a reputable broker who can advise, there is no point in having invalid or insurance that will seek to avoid paying out on a claim ( which they almost certainly will ) Good luck , Roger

wharfhouse · May 13, 2020

Interesting situation but I would have thought it would be classed as the insurance company have declined to offer you a quote for a new policy when they had all of the information to hand? You cancelled your existing policy which is all well and good - had the insurance company cancelled it that may be different in that they would then have been refusing to continue to insure you. However, when you asked for an amendment to your existing policy for the new vehicle they offered you a price (so didn't refuse to insure you), although higher than you wanted to accept. After you cancelled the existing policy and then asked for a new policy they declined at this point which is the same as many insurance companies do through the online comparison sites - you put all your details in and then some insurance companies decline to offer a quote and the others give you a quote which you can choose from - otherwise you would see a price for every insurance company that is on the platform and clearly that does not happen. However, as stated above, this is just a personal opinion and I am not a legal person and asking a broker the question (as they must have insurers who decline to quote and others who quote) would be a sensible move.

When I have amended a policy mid-term for a change in car I have always found the remaining term cost much more than if I pro-rata a new policy. I have generally bitten the bullet and paid the additional amount for the remaining term simply to avoid any headaches but always then reviewed it on renewal, either getting the existing insurer to lower their quote or moving to a new insurer. When I was looking for house insurance one year I rang some companies and one of those declined to quote but others were happy to quote against the same details. This must happen regularly if getting quotes over the phone.

Phooey · May 13, 2020

10 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Interesting situation but I would have thought it would be classed as the insurance company have declined to offer you a quote for a new policy when they had all of the information to hand? You cancelled your existing policy which is all well and good - had the insurance company cancelled it that may be different in that they would then have been refusing to continue to insure you. However, when you asked for an amendment to your existing policy for the new vehicle they offered you a price (so didn't refuse to insure you), although higher than you wanted to accept. After you cancelled the existing policy and then asked for a new policy they declined at this point which is the same as many insurance companies do through the online comparison sites - you put all your details in and then some insurance companies decline to offer a quote and the others give you a quote which you can choose from - otherwise you would see a price for every insurance company that is on the platform and clearly that does not happen. However, as stated above, this is just a personal opinion and I am not a legal person and asking a broker the question (as they must have insurers who decline to quote and others who quote) would be a sensible move.

When I have amended a policy mid-term for a change in car I have always found the remaining term cost much more than if I pro-rata a new policy. I have generally bitten the bullet and paid the additional amount for the remaining term simply to avoid any headaches but always then reviewed it on renewal, either getting the existing insurer to lower their quote or moving to a new insurer. When I was looking for house insurance one year I rang some companies and one of those declined to quote but others were happy to quote against the same details. This must happen regularly if getting quotes over the phone.

I suppose the simplest way is to ring them, the company concerned, and ask them if they have 'declined insurance' this constitutes declining insurance for future years?

wharfhouse · May 13, 2020

3 minutes ago, Phooey said:

I suppose the simplest way is to ring them, the company concerned, and ask them if they have 'declined insurance' this constitutes declining insurance for future years?

That would make sense - you would hope they could advise you.

ColinBarber · May 13, 2020

Refused insurance means a claim rejected, the company cancelled the policy mid-term or they refused to offer you a renewal on an existing policy.

Not providing a quote for a new policy doesn't count - if it did we would all have a problem as there are always a couple of companies that don't provide a quote at the bottom of the price comparison websites 😉

NemesisUK · May 13, 2020

From GoCompare website

Refuse insurance
If you’ve been refused insurance, it means you’ve either had a claim rejected, or your insurer has refused to offer you a renewal quote.

Your insurer might refuse to renew your policy, either because its criteria has changed or they’re no longer able to offer you cover.

But you could also be refused insurance, or refused a renewal because of non-disclosure, leading to your insurance being voided or cancelled.

If you’ve ever had insurance refused you have to declare it when you take out new insurance.

https://www.gocompare.com/car-insurance/guide/declarations-and-non-disclosures/

But a slightly different slant from MSE website..

I tried to get M&S home insurance and was turned down. The operator said that a note had come on her screen to make sure customer understands that this is not a refusal to insure but a decline to quote.

I didn't really understand the difference at the time, but comments on this thread explain it.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1312865/what-does-refused-insurance-actually-mean

Phooey · May 13, 2020

20 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

From GoCompare website

Refuse insurance
If you’ve been refused insurance, it means you’ve either had a claim rejected, or your insurer has refused to offer you a renewal quote.

Your insurer might refuse to renew your policy, either because its criteria has changed or they’re no longer able to offer you cover.

But you could also be refused insurance, or refused a renewal because of non-disclosure, leading to your insurance being voided or cancelled.

If you’ve ever had insurance refused you have to declare it when you take out new insurance.

https://www.gocompare.com/car-insurance/guide/declarations-and-non-disclosures/

But a slightly different slant from MSE website..

I tried to get M&S home insurance and was turned down. The operator said that a note had come on her screen to make sure customer understands that this is not a refusal to insure but a decline to quote.

I didn't really understand the difference at the time, but comments on this thread explain it.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1312865/what-does-refused-insurance-actually-mean

Thanks, Peter. I eventually managed to get hold of my ex-wife's brother who works for LV and has done for some 12 years. He says that I have not been refused insurance just that they have not been able to provide a quote which is not the same thing!

Sounds like the same as you are saying! I hope! lol

colin79666 · May 13, 2020

As above I'd think you are on ok ground (but I'm not a legal expert). After all anyone under 50 who ever used a comparison site would have to put refused down just because Saga didn't give a quote! In your case it wasn't a refusal to renewal either, totally new policy on a different car that they just wouldn't quote for taking all the current facts into account.

Phooey · May 13, 2020

15 minutes ago, colin79666 said:

As above I'd think you are on ok ground (but I'm not a legal expert). After all anyone under 50 who ever used a comparison site would have to put refused down just because Saga didn't give a quote! In your case it wasn't a refusal to renewal either, totally new policy on a different car that they just wouldn't quote for taking all the current facts into account.

They couldn't quote me due to the size of the payout from my motorcycle accident. So I am thinking, if that were the case you would have every serious accident victim essentially feeling criminalised by refusing to insure!

I am going to call them in the morning just to clarify. Piece of mind and all that!

Barry14UK · May 13, 2020

You have sought advice here and fro somebody who worked for LV for 12 years (not an office junior) and the overall opinion is that you were not refused insurance. What are you going to say in future if the insurers say they see it as a refusal? By asking them you could be inviting the 'wrong' answer in the circumstances.

Insurance companies can interpret things differently, for example, I received a NIP for doing 36mph in a 30mph area but this was not proceeded with as I opted for an awareness course offered as an alternative. On renewing my insurance, one company I asked informally about this stated this should nevertheless be recorded against me whereas another company said this was not necessary so they didn't need to know.

NemesisUK · May 13, 2020

Insurance companies can interpret things differently, certainly. They also share information and I'd imagine if one were to 'refuse' cover others would be aware? It would raise questions as to why and perhaps as to why the 'refusal' wasn't declared?

I think clarification from the company should be sought as to the actual meaning of their action

Phooey · May 13, 2020

22 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

You have sought advice here and fro somebody who worked for LV for 12 years (not an office junior) and the overall opinion is that you were not refused insurance. What are you going to say in future if the insurers say they see it as a refusal? By asking them you could be inviting the 'wrong' answer in the circumstances.

Insurance companies can interpret things differently, for example, I received a NIP for doing 36mph in a 30mph area but this was not proceeded with as I opted for an awareness course offered as an alternative. On renewing my insurance, one company I asked informally about this stated this should nevertheless be recorded against me whereas another company said this was not necessary so they didn't need to know.

I thought if you opted for the course then you did not need to declare it because your license has not been endorsed!

What I intend to do is call the company who 'refused' to ask if this is a refusal or just unable to quote.

Phooey · May 13, 2020

8 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Insurance companies can interpret things differently, certainly. They also share information and I'd imagine if one were to 'refuse' cover others would be aware? It would raise questions as to why and perhaps as to why the 'refusal' wasn't declared?

I think clarification from the company should be sought as to the actual meaning of their action

That is what I am going to do. I'd rather know for certain than risk having my insurance cancelled and not renewed which a definite refusal.

Malc · May 14, 2020

14 hours ago, Phooey said:

because I made a successful claim against a negligent driver

who was insured by, well, an insurance company and it's the industry itself that is, once again, protecting it's own

Total lack of good faith on their part

Uberrimae fidei is a twoway street BUT the other side don't seem to recognise that for sure ....... like with many a business facing melt down in this covid crisis sadly

Malc

Phooey · May 14, 2020

OK, I just rang the company concerned and directly asked the question.

After she stopped laughing, she gave a resounding NO! I have not been refused insurance and I do not have to declare such. They have just not been able to offer cover based on my circumstances. A huge relief. She said her little laugh was because I sounded so worried about nothing.

It does show how confusing the entire field is though.

RgrWynne · May 14, 2020

8 minutes ago, Phooey said:

OK, I just rang the company concerned and directly asked the question.

After she stopped laughing, she gave a resounding NO! I have not been refused insurance and I do not have to declare such. They have just not been able to offer cover based on my circumstances. A huge relief. She said her little laugh was because I sounded so worried about nothing.

It does show how confusing the entire field is though.

Well that is a relief although I would make sure you have her name, time and date and content of call. I am always very nervous theses days of insurance companies because the only time you find out whether they are any good Is when you claim. You can also be certain that they will use every loophole to avoid a payout. Likewise you must always be crystal clean in the honesty of the information you give or them, particularly where travel and health insurance is concerned.
I am pleased there would appear to be a happy ending to this, cheers, Roger

Phooey · May 14, 2020

4 minutes ago, RgrWynne said:

Well that is a relief although I would make sure you have her name, time and date and content of call. I am always very nervous theses days of insurance companies because the only time you find out whether they are any good Is when you claim. You can also be certain that they will use every loophole to avoid a payout. Likewise you must always be crystal clean in the honesty of the information you give or them, particularly where travel and health insurance is concerned.
I am pleased there would appear to be a happy ending to this, cheers, Roger

Thanks Roger. I got her name and I'll not forget the day or time. As they make a big deal about ALL of their calls being recorded for training purposes, they'll find it difficult to change their minds. If the call suddenly disappears they'll be in trouble. I once worked for a company who claimed all of their calls were recorded. They weren't and when someone asked for a copy of a particular call they found themselves in court.

Malc · May 14, 2020

So good your mind is now at peace with all this ...... do make a note of the time and day of your confirming call though as when push comes to shove they might well deny they ever said that or perhaps state that the person you spoke with did NOT have the authority to say what she said

I'm going through this right now with a supposed reputable travel protection business that is just wriggling itself out of it's obligations ..... and i just didn't think to keep that note of date and time sadly .........

just take care ..... covid issues are pushing otherwise " honest " businesses and people into lacking the " utmost good faith " aspect that's been paramount in many businesses for ever

Malc

Phooey · May 14, 2020

3 hours ago, Malc said:

So good your mind is now at peace with all this ...... do make a note of the time and day of your confirming call though as when push comes to shove they might well deny they ever said that or perhaps state that the person you spoke with did NOT have the authority to say what she said

I'm going through this right now with a supposed reputable travel protection business that is just wriggling itself out of it's obligations ..... and i just didn't think to keep that note of date and time sadly .........

just take care ..... covid issues are pushing otherwise " honest " businesses and people into lacking the " utmost good faith " aspect that's been paramount in many businesses for ever

Malc

Thanks. I have time and date so if they deny saying it they have the recording to deliver what was actually said. As for not having the authority, I believe that the law is on my side here since I made every effort to clarify the situation and her response was clear and unambiguous.

ColinBarber · May 14, 2020

20 hours ago, Phooey said:

I thought if you opted for the course then you did not need to declare it because your license has not been endorsed!

I did a speed awareness course a number of years ago and at the time there was only one insurance group that asked if you had been on a course and penalised you for it. You have to answer truthfully to any question you are asked - but most insurance companies don't ask.

The instructor at the time made us aware of this and said just don't use that group of companies (Admiral group) - if anything they should give you a discount as your knowledge and awareness would be much better than someone who hadn't had a refresher since they passed their test.