Incompatible music file causes hybrid error

[pkts]

This is an odd one. I wouldn't believe it myself if it hadn't happened to me.

 

I was testing the music files I could play on a USB stick in the car. One of the files was incompatible (not mp3). In accessory mode after 5 min of playing music the warning light comes on and display reads "hybrid system has stopped. Please put shift lever into P" and Operation of electrical items restricted. But the car was already in park...it wasn't even on (Ready). Turned it off, put it back into accessory mode, did it again after a few minutes. Took out USB stick, forgot about it for a few weeks.

 

Then I wanted to listen to music again and put the USB back in and turned the car on (Ready). Car started to move the seat and steering wheel closer and then immediately stopped and gave the same warning about hybrid system. I though maybe the Battery had gone flat since seat wouldn't move. Tried a couple of times, same thing. Then I took out the USB stick and it started no problem. I can't believe something like this could effect the electronics to such an extent ? But I can reproduce the error. I shudder to think what might happen if I put other incompatible things on the USB stick haha. This USB stick has been in the car for months with no issue, I just added some extra files to see if I could play other file formats.

[royoftherovers]

Ghosts, Virus, Rioja ?

[Thackeray]

That's a bit of a mystery. Is this an IS300h?

As the first suspect is the incompatible music files, have you tried removing them from the USB stick and tested without them?

Other mystery problems I've noticed on this forum have been caused by (a)wearing a smart watch and (b) placement of a wireless phone charger. Have you got either of these; or anything else that you're carrying or putting in the car that might be emitting radio waves/magnetic fields to cause problems?

The other thing that occurs to me is that using the Accessory mode is running down the Battery. So maybe it was lower than usual when you put it into Ready state. How many bars is it showing, assuming you can get it into the Ready state? And, of course, what's the state of the 12v Battery? This seems to be causing a lot of problems at the moment on little used cars.

[ColinBarber]

It has all the hallmarks of a low voltage aux Battery. 

What if you put the vehicle into Ready mode and then insert the USB key?

 

If this isn't a Battery issue then as the USB connector is directly connected to the AV system, which is on a separate bus to the vehicle's CAN bus, in theory it should not be possible to cause an issue on the hybrid system. Obviously there are devices that connect to multiple buses and act as gateways/firewalls and flaws in the system could allow unexpected things. Luckily the IS isn't directly Internet connected, this sort of flaw is gold to hackers and the potential start of an exploit.

[Jayw13702]

As soon as I started reading your description I thought of 12v Battery.

What age is your car? They have a 5-7 year lifespan and because they are so small they can discharge quickly.

I would get a voltmeter and measure the voltage across the terminals, 14.4v when the ready light is on, 12v when off and dropping if you have electrical items running, if it gets below 10v quickly then you have a dying Battery, however before replacing it I would have someone carry out a proper load test on it.

I genuinely thing the usb music file is a coincidence


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[200h]

if you are going to use the audio in your car always have the car in the ready state

the car will start & stop when needed to keep everything fully charged.

"Please put shift lever into P" and Operation of electrical items restricted. But the car was already in park."

this is a classic sign of the 12v Battery being low you can also have the dashboard lights flickering

on & off randomly , this happened to me a few years ago ,my Battery was so low i couldn't even

power down the system and had to let if stop by itself.

[pkts]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:44 PM, Thackeray said:

That's a bit of a mystery. Is this an IS300h?

As the first suspect is the incompatible music files, have you tried removing them from the USB stick and tested without them?

Other mystery problems I've noticed on this forum have been caused by (a)wearing a smart watch and (b) placement of a wireless phone charger. Have you got either of these; or anything else that you're carrying or putting in the car that might be emitting radio waves/magnetic fields to cause problems?

The other thing that occurs to me is that using the Accessory mode is running down the battery. So maybe it was lower than usual when you put it into Ready state. How many bars is it showing, assuming you can get it into the Ready state? And, of course, what's the state of the 12v battery? This seems to be causing a lot of problems at the moment on little used cars.

Yeah, it's a IS300h. I have had one other electrical issue where the windshield wipers got stuck in mid sweep while in auto mode when it was pouring (they were going on fastest setting). A restart of car didn't fix it but forcing it to manually sweep reset it and it hasn't happened again for 3-4 months. Based on a search on here, I assumed a relay was going bad.

The hybrid Battery was at 6 bars out of 8.

I'll try the USB stick again (without the incompatible file) today on my drive and report back. I don't have wireless charger attached and I don't have a smart watch. My phone had Bluetooth off and wasn't plugged into car. Only other thing plugged into USB was an Iphone charger that has been plugged in for 9 months. I usually have the same things in the car each day so can't think of anything else that would have caused it. I'm thinking the car operating system tried to load the incompatible file and it caused a bug, only weird part is why that spread to the hybrid part

 

[pkts]

On 5/10/2020 at 7:14 AM, ColinBarber said:

It has all the hallmarks of a low voltage aux battery. 

What if you put the vehicle into Ready mode and then insert the USB key?

 

If this isn't a battery issue then as the USB connector is directly connected to the AV system, which is on a separate bus to the vehicle's CAN bus, in theory it should not be possible to cause an issue on the hybrid system. Obviously there are devices that connect to multiple buses and act as gateways/firewalls and flaws in the system could allow unexpected things. Luckily the IS isn't directly Internet connected, this sort of flaw is gold to hackers and the potential start of an exploit.

I agree, I though it was the 12V Battery also. Perhaps it was just a coincedence...the car had been sitting for 4 days which is usual...I normally drive every day or other day. Now I'm thinking perhaps I should just replace the 12V soon. Agreed on the thinking that there would be separation between USB and the hybrid system ! Definitely good no connection to the internet haha

[pkts]

16 hours ago, Jayw13702 said:

As soon as I started reading your description I thought of 12v battery.

What age is your car? They have a 5-7 year lifespan and because they are so small they can discharge quickly.

I would get a voltmeter and measure the voltage across the terminals, 14.4v when the ready light is on, 12v when off and dropping if you have electrical items running, if it gets below 10v quickly then you have a dying battery, however before replacing it I would have someone carry out a proper load test on it.

I genuinely thing the usb music file is a coincidence


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It's a 2013 so getting up there but I got it a year ago and am not sure if the Battery was replaced. I also thought of the 12V Battery. I've never used a voltmeter...I'll look it up and see the price and what's involved in using it. Might be good insurance against a flat Battery

 

Is this a good choice of voltmeter ?

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/AstroAI-Digital-Multimeter-Voltage-Tester/dp/B01ISAMUA6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TNQVDXCFJ2UT&keywords=voltmeter&qid=1589156228&sprefix=voltmeter%2Caps%2C296&sr=8-1

[pkts]

15 hours ago, 200h said:

if you are going to use the audio in your car always have the car in the ready state

the car will start & stop when needed to keep everything fully charged.

"Please put shift lever into P" and Operation of electrical items restricted. But the car was already in park."

this is a classic sign of the 12v battery being low you can also have the dashboard lights flickering

on & off randomly , this happened to me a few years ago ,my battery was so low i couldn't even

power down the system and had to let if stop by itself.

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. Dashboard lights haven't been flickering yet

[Jayw13702]

It's a 2013 so getting up there but I got it a year ago and am not sure if the battery was replaced. I also thought of the 12V battery. I've never used a voltmeter...I'll look it up and see the price and what's involved in using it. Might be good insurance against a flat battery
 
Is this a good choice of voltmeter ?
 
https://www.amazon.com.au/AstroAI-Digital-Multimeter-Voltage-Tester/dp/B01ISAMUA6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TNQVDXCFJ2UT&keywords=voltmeter&qid=1589156228&sprefix=voltmeter%2Caps%2C296&sr=8-1

I would bet you’re still on your original 12v and that is now showing signs of ageing.

Yes that voltmeter will do the job, connect the red and black probes as they are in the picture. Then turn the dial anti-clockwise until it is sat as the 20v selector (about 11 o’clock in that picture) and the put the red probe on the Battery + terminal and the black on the -
Press the power button twice and do not put your foot on the brake, so the ready light is not on. Make sure you have all the accessories switched off (radio/climate etc)
Now take a voltage reading and see if it is holding/dropping slowly.
Now turn one item on, I normally start with the radio. Check the voltage and see how quickly it drops.
Then turn the lights on or heated rear window, these are heavier voltage items and so should cause a bigger voltage drop.

Your Battery should be anything between 12.5-14.4v at the start of the test, even with these items running I wouldn’t expect to see it drop below 10.5-11v if it does then the Battery may be on its way out

Hope that helps


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[pkts]

13 hours ago, Jayw13702 said:

I would bet you’re still on your original 12v and that is now showing signs of ageing.

Yes that voltmeter will do the job, connect the red and black probes as they are in the picture. Then turn the dial anti-clockwise until it is sat as the 20v selector (about 11 o’clock in that picture) and the put the red probe on the battery + terminal and the black on the -
Press the power button twice and do not put your foot on the brake, so the ready light is not on. Make sure you have all the accessories switched off (radio/climate etc)
Now take a voltage reading and see if it is holding/dropping slowly.
Now turn one item on, I normally start with the radio. Check the voltage and see how quickly it drops.
Then turn the lights on or heated rear window, these are heavier voltage items and so should cause a bigger voltage drop.

Your battery should be anything between 12.5-14.4v at the start of the test, even with these items running I wouldn’t expect to see it drop below 10.5-11v if it does then the battery may be on its way out

Hope that helps


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Thanks so much for explaining that. I'll post with the results once I get the voltmeter. I watched a video where they recommended also starting the car at the end of the test to see how much the Battery voltage drops but perhaps it's not necessary with a hybrid ?

[Jayw13702]

Thanks so much for explaining that. I'll post with the results once I get the voltmeter. I watched a video where they recommended also starting the car at the end of the test to see how much the battery voltage drops but perhaps it's not necessary with a hybrid ?

No, because a hybrid engine isn’t started by a starter that draws a large current.


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[pkts]

Thanks, makes sense. I guess that means less wear and tear on the 12V Battery 👍

[Herbie]

14 hours ago, Jayw13702 said:

Your battery should be anything between 12.5-14.4v at the start of the test

Not quite.

12.7V is fully charged and you'll never see anything as high as 14V unless the engine is running and the alternator is spinning, or in the case of hybrids like ours, the READY light is on.

[Jayw13702]

Thanks, makes sense. I guess that means less wear and tear on the 12V battery [emoji106]

Yes, that’s why they are tiny in comparison to a normal car Battery


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[Steven Lockey]

lol, as a programmer this sounds like a classic case of 'uncaught error' syndrome. 

So to explain, you have to remember quite how dumb computers are. They know nothing and investigate nothing. 
The AV equipment throws an error, however most likely that error was never expected to be thrown so it wasn't included
in the error spec that the main hybrid system picks up. 

The hybrid computer basically receives an error that isn't in it's list of known errors. It's got no idea where the 
error came from or what has caused it. So what you've got is basically the Lexus version of 
"Something went wrong" generic error message. Generally this advises an immediate shutdown like this 
just in case its something really serious.

As for the other options suggested here, for various reasons I'd say they are unlikely. 
Viruses are OS reliant, the system the lexus AV uses is too niche to try and hack and
doesn't give you any access worth anything. Most you can do is shut the car down by sending errors.
The Battery voltage suggestion doesn't make much sense if you were able to restart simply by
unplugging the USB. Most likely here was as soon as you restarted it was trying to read the song
off the USB if it was plugged in and regenerating the exact same error. The power draw from reading
a USB is extremely minimal.

[pkts]

I got the voltmeter. Became pretty obvious very quickly that my Battery is on its way out. WIthout turning anything on, I measured and got 12.2. Turning on twice without foot on brake had it quickly going down to 10, 9...by the time i went back to the dash, hybrid warning was on. I didn't even get to turning on radio or lights although I forgot to turn off auto wipers and it swept once. I also have partial easy entry so seat and wheel moved. With everything off, Battery bounced back to 10 fairly quickly and back up to 11 within 15 min so hopefully I'll be ok to drive for next few days.

 

Glad I posted this issue on here, voltmeter seems like cheap insurance. I'd guess that the usb incompatible file does cause some kind of surge in voltage needed in the USB but with how low powered USB, seems hard to believe that could effect the Battery that much. Once my Battery is well charged again I'm going to see if the issue happens again with incompatible file removed.

 

What's a reasonable price for the dealer to replace Battery ? I'd prefer they do it but not if it's ridiculously overpriced. If I get it replaced at somewhere other than Lexus, I assume it won't invalidate the hybrid Battery warranty (only warranty I have left on a 2013) ?

[200h]

for a quick confirmation

if you could get hold of another Battery and hook it up to yours

then try turning the  car on and play the music and see what happens

if it works as it should then for certain you know the culprit

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, pkts said:

If I get it replaced at somewhere other than Lexus, I assume it won't invalidate the hybrid battery warranty (only warranty I have left on a 2013) ?

No, it won't. The hybrid Battery is a separate entity to the 12V Battery so it would be like saying that work on the brakes would invalidate the steering warranty.

[pkts]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:22 AM, Steven Lockey said:

lol, as a programmer this sounds like a classic case of 'uncaught error' syndrome. 

So to explain, you have to remember quite how dumb computers are. They know nothing and investigate nothing. 
The AV equipment throws an error, however most likely that error was never expected to be thrown so it wasn't included
in the error spec that the main hybrid system picks up. 

The hybrid computer basically receives an error that isn't in it's list of known errors. It's got no idea where the 
error came from or what has caused it. So what you've got is basically the Lexus version of 
"Something went wrong" generic error message. Generally this advises an immediate shutdown like this 
just in case its something really serious.

As for the other options suggested here, for various reasons I'd say they are unlikely. 
Viruses are OS reliant, the system the lexus AV uses is too niche to try and hack and
doesn't give you any access worth anything. Most you can do is shut the car down by sending errors.
The battery voltage suggestion doesn't make much sense if you were able to restart simply by
unplugging the USB. Most likely here was as soon as you restarted it was trying to read the song
off the USB if it was plugged in and regenerating the exact same error. The power draw from reading
a USB is extremely minimal.

Interesting ! I've gone back and forth on the cause of this but it seems very likely now that my Battery is going bad and I mistook correlation for causation. Today I had trouble starting the car without the USB stick in it and the car finally started on the third try (same number as when I pulled the USB stick out and tried again). I think I read another post saying that the first attempted start gets pressure up in the brake fluid and less Battery power is required on subsuquent starts so maybe that's why it works on the third try ??

 

Once I get the Battery replaced I will be plugging in the bad USB stick and seeing if it causes any issues still

[pkts]

10 hours ago, 200h said:

for a quick confirmation

if you could get hold of another battery and hook it up to yours

then try turning the  car on and play the music and see what happens

if it works as it should then for certain you know the culprit

I'll def do that when I get the Battery replaced.