Gs450 cut out and wont start again

[kim_gs]

How could we be sure that it was caused by insufficient cooling and not something else? Maybe a malfunction of the inverter.

I read that member Lwerewolf also replaced the inverter, but as far as I understood, it was caused by transmission fluid level being too low (https://priuschat.com/threads/inverter-blew-up-and-car-wont-start-no-ready-2007-gs450h.197632/)

[Alan64]

Cheers steve yes i will make sure the pump is working also as i agree no point in doing the job and it going again

[Alan64]

Il have a look at that tread also thanks kim

[Alan64]

So inverter is ordered now from nippon parts derb, fingers crossed when i get it my problems are over 

[Lwerewolf]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:19 PM, kim_gs said:

How could we be sure that it was caused by insufficient cooling and not something else? Maybe a malfunction of the inverter.

I read that member Lwerewolf also replaced the inverter, but as far as I understood, it was caused by transmission fluid level being too low (https://priuschat.com/threads/inverter-blew-up-and-car-wont-start-no-ready-2007-gs450h.197632/)

It's unknown what ultimately caused the overheat/blowup on my first inverter. My car throttles power under certain conditions, without codes:

-mg2 in high gear

-full throttle at 60kph (approx. lowest speed before it switches back to low gear)

-hot weather (20+ celsius - certainly throttles down to 150bhp uphill, yes it's in kickdown, no the TC light isn't flashing)

MG2 IGBTs reach 125+ celsius almost instantly (seen 140 with hybridassistant), and the inverter auto-throttles - you can read up on that on the openinverter forums, plenty of info.

The conditions above cause the most stress on the MG2 IGBTs - overgeared, at a relatively low RPM (therefore inverter in PWM mode = more heat).

The JDM and USDM 3rd gen gs450h use a 3.769 diff, the EU/AUS/Singapore/whatever one uses a 3.266. No other powertrain differences - same engines, inverters, transmissions, water pumps, etc. Could just be a case of engineering oversight, I guess. The JDM-only crown majesta 3.5 hybrid uses the same 3.266 diff, though... same with the 4th gen GS. No clue.

Inverter coolant changed probably several times already, coolant cap as well. Water pump is running - not sure if its performance is degraded, or how to check that - nothing in the manual other than "turbulence = ok (yeah lol whatever)". Inverter coolant temperature hits up to 60 on the hottest (40+ celsius) summer days, so I guess the radiator itself is fine.

Haven't blown my second inverter... yet. Have tried last summer (full throttle under those conditions, multiple times) - never ever tripped a code, the inverter overtemperature counter doesn't get set either. My first blowup... I think it occurred in exactly those conditions - full throttle at around 60kph after slowing down.

Plan so far - somehow acquire a 3.769 rear diff (or a 2005+ gs430 3.6-something... or maybe an is350 4.1), replace coolant again, add redline diesel water wetter (supposedly surfactants only), replace water pump as it's 10 years old anyways.

At any rate - GS inverter numbers should be interchangeable, but LHD models won't run with RHD inverters - and vice-versa.

Repairing the inverter - once these blow up, just forget about it. An overhaul would be replacing the main cap (the bottom of the inverter), but Toyota won't sell it to you as an individual component. RHD inverters are relatively common, LHD not so much... Consider yourself lucky 🙂

[Alan64]

Ok so replaced inverter and car is running fine, small noise from coolant pump maybee some air in the system, any handy ways to bleed this

 

Thanks

[steve2006]

16 minutes ago, Alan64 said:

Ok so replaced inverter and car is running fine, small noise from coolant pump maybee some air in the system, any handy ways to bleed this

 

Thanks

Some good news today then 😀 Glad it all worked out for you.

Sorry no idea about bleeding the coolant, I know on the engine coolant you remove the pressure cap and rev the engine to circulate the coolant and let any air bubbles out. Hybrids are a completely different animal.

Found this 

 

[Mihanicos]

Hi,

Remove the inverter radiator cap.

Loosen the air bleed plug [6mm] at the front driver's side and connect the air bleed hose. Insert the other end of the hose into the filler tank and drain the coolant. Refit the bleeder plug, tighten to 1.5 Nm. no more, risk of deformation.

Find the hose which connects to a pipe going down and making a 90 degree bent at the bottom of the engine. This pipe is held in position by a a drain plug. Release it and drain the coolant. Tighten it to 13 Nm.

At the bottom of the engine, there is another drain 10mm plug. release it and drain the coolant. Tighten to 39 Nm.

Collect and measure the total amount drained. RHD capacity is 2.8 litres.

Loosen the 6 mm bleeder plug and connect the hose. keep the other end of the hose next to the filler tank.

Add coolant until the coolant in the tank is at the maximum and the same level with bleeder hose. Hold the hose next to the tank. Remove the hose and tighten the plug to 1.5 Nm, no more.

Connect the techstream or a similar scanner and operate the active test on the pump. Add coolant to the max level of the tank while operating the pump for about 3 minutes and stop for 1 minute. If the water pump operates for more than 5 seconds without enough water, it will stop for 15 seconds and restart. Excessive coolant will cause an overflow.

Keep adding coolant for 1 minute and stopping for 1 minute. When there are no more air bubbles and the sound of the pump is quiet, the air bleeding is complete.

Make sure that you have added more coolant than the amount drained. Driving the car with air in the circuit, it will display trouble codes.

To eliminate the remotest possibility of air being trapped put the car heater on full and with the engine running  squeeze the heater water hoses one at a time. With the radiator cap removed, observe that every time the heater hose is squeezed,  the water level in the radiator rises and falls.  Also make sure you can feel hot coolant in the hoses indicating circulation.This expels all air from the coolant in the heat exchanger

Test drive the car and drive slowly for a few minutes. Stop and check the coolant level. Drive  for longer time and keep checking.

Make sure you check the coolant level every time the engine cools down. If you need to add coolant it means that you still had air in the system or you have a leak. 

It is of paramount importance to eliminate all air from the system. Trapped air impairs the coolant circulation resulting in insufficient cooling of the electronic components thereby shortening their life and eventually leading to a failure. It also causes engine temperature rise.

 

Chris.

 

 

 

[Malc]

3 hours ago, Alan64 said:

Ok so replaced inverter

new or 2nd hand ?  the prices new looks eyewateringly expensive

Malc

[steve2006]

I’ll tell you something Chris....you’re  the main man when it comes to hybrid knowledge, what do you do for a living and where in the world are you located?

[Lwerewolf]

The info is coming off of the workshop manuals, that should give you a hint 🙂

[Alan64]

Cheers lads, the inverter was a second hand unit, 400 pound shipped to me the car is running fine which is great news and thanks to everybody for there advice on here

[Mihanicos]

Hi Steve,

I have studied Electrical Engineering at the University of Leeds and worked in England for some time with Electricity Generating Boards and Babcock and Wilcox. Electronics has been my lifetime hobby and mechanical engineering my passion.

 All my life I repair and maintain my own cars, any tools or equipment I need I buy, irrespective of cost. I never go to the dealers for anything. I can do a full engine overhaul strictly to the manufacturer's specifications. Mechanical, hybrid and electric cars all obey the laws of physics and electricity.

When I write a post here, it must be precise, accurate and correct. One cannot rely on memory to give the right information and guidance to other people. Wrong information and guidance may result in damages whose cost will be born by their recipients. I always look up the repair manual of the manufacturer which I bought from Lexus, irrespective of how simple or complicated the work involved happens to be. For me the repair manual is a guide. However, knowledge of the principles of operation of the various parts and experience is the key to pinpoint an electrical or mechanical fault and subsequently carry out repairs.

I am here to learn from other learned members, like Socrates said about 2500 years ago, " All I know is that I know nothing ".

I have recently retired and I now live in Cyprus.

 

Chris.