IS300H for short journey

[solarpower]

Dear all,

I am considering buying Lexus IS300H and I currently have Golf 1.9 TDI. I am hoping you folks can illuminate me. My questions are:

1. I drive like 2-3 miles in start-stop traffic (max speed 30 mph) a couple of times a day. I am wondering would the IS300H batteries would last with this type of driving or they would die quickly? I I rarely do motorway driving, and my annual mileage will be around 6k to 7k miles. I tend to keep car for long time- historically ~8-10 years.
2. As I understand, IS300H drives initially in the EV mode. Is this true? Would I cover those distance in EV mode? How does this change in winter? What sort of mpg I can expect?
3. MPG is not my most important concern- I do not prefer usual cambelt changes, worn out clutches, brake pads etc. I assume they are negligible with IS300H. Right?
4. While I understand that a plug-in hybrid might be better for me but I hate the idea of charging car every day like mobile phones, and thus like the idea of self-charging hybrids (hence Battery concern in #1 above). I can't afford pure electric vehicles.

Thanks for helping me.

Solar

[matt8]

1. It'll be fine! I'd say the car suits this really.

2. Not true. You can force it to start in EV mode (e.g. moving off your driveway quietly in the mornings), but by default it won't. It wants to get the engine running. Experiences will differ in summer vs. winter.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, solarpower said:

MPG is not my most important concern- I do not prefer usual cambelt changes, worn out clutches, brake pads etc. I assume they are negligible with IS300H. Right?

The IS300h engine has a timing chain, not a belt. There isn't a clutch. The mechanical brakes aren't used that much if you are gentle on the brakes and allow the electric regenerative braking to do most of the work.

[Thackeray]

13 hours ago, solarpower said:

I drive like 2-3 miles in start-stop traffic (max speed 30 mph) a couple of times a day. I am wondering would the IS300H batteries would last with this type of driving or they would die quickly? I I rarely do motorway driving, and my annual mileage will be around 6k to 7k miles.

I can't think of a reason why slow town driving would be more detrimental to the hybrid Battery than motorway driving. The Battery doesn't see any indication of driving conditions - it simply calls for power from the engine whenever it needs charging. Driving conditions won't have any impact on that as far as I can see.

The hybrid Battery is guaranteed for 15 years now, as long as you get a hybrid health check done I think every year or 10,000 miles.

But short trips will have an impact on the mpg especially in the winter. I wrote a post about this a couple of years ago, which I'll link to below. This is a consistent pattern that fuel consumption tends to increase (lower mpg) in winter and gets better again in the summer.

 

[solarpower]

4 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

I can't think of a reason why slow town driving would be more detrimental to the hybrid battery than motorway driving. The battery doesn't see any indication of driving conditions - it simply calls for power from the engine whenever it needs charging. Driving conditions won't have any impact on that as far as I can see.

The hybrid battery is guaranteed for 15 years now, as long as you get a hybrid health check done I think every year or 10,000 miles.

But short trips will have an impact on the mpg especially in the winter. I wrote a post about this a couple of years ago, which I'll link to below. This is a consistent pattern that fuel consumption tends to increase (lower mpg) in winter and gets better again in the summer.

 

Matt, Colin and Thackeray, Thank you very much for your reply. I am considering buying a 2014-16 used IS300H with ~50k miles. With my kind of driving, do you think it will last for 8-10 years?  Based on your experience, is there anything that I should be worried about?

Thanks again gentlemen.

[matt8]

5 hours ago, solarpower said:

Matt, Colin and Thackeray, Thank you very much for your reply. I am considering buying a 2014-16 used IS300H with ~50k miles. With my kind of driving, do you think it will last for 8-10 years?  Based on your experience, is there anything that I should be worried about?

Thanks again gentlemen.

You're welcome!

I see no reason it won't last, these are well built cars. A regular service every 10K miles / year and you'll be fine.

I may consider changing my oil more frequently if I did so many short journeys.

For peace of mind, perhaps Lexus warranty is the way to go for you. You can extend for up to 10 years I believe.

[Thackeray]

6 hours ago, solarpower said:

With my kind of driving, do you think it will last for 8-10 years?  Based on your experience, is there anything that I should be worried about?

The first is a difficult question. What you're asking is will the car keep running for 16 years, reaching 120,000 miles by then? The answer, I suppose, is "we can't tell but probably yes", judging by the number of 16 year old Lexuses still around.For example, the HowManyLeft website shows that of around 32,000 IS200 cars registered in 2004, around 16,000 are still on the road or registered SORN. But what you also probably want to know is will it still be reliable or will it cost a lot to maintain. Anecdotally, the answer seems to be that Lexus is usually the most reliable brand in surveys.

I keep cars for a long time, too. So part of what attracted me to the hybrid IS300h was the fact that of things that might go wrong it has no gearbox, no starter motor, no alternator as such, no clutch; instead it has two electric motors. In my experience, electric motors last for ages without attention but whether that means the same for a hybrid car I have yet to find out.

Brakes, too, can get away with very little wear. After 50,000 miles, my brakes are around a quarter to one-third worn. That suggests they might last for 150,000 miles but we'll see, of course.

The cost of servicing at Lexus dealers is not cheap, though five-year-old cars get a discount. Service is due every year, unlike some German cars which might get away with every two years. One thing to bear in mind is that the IS300h 60,000 mile service is an expensive one because the spark plugs are replaced every 60,000 miles. The 100,000 mile service is expensive, too, but I can't remember what is done to increase the cost. But so far, I've had no extras charged when I've had the car serviced - unlike with German cars, where an extra unexpected £500 was fairly common.in my experience. More than once the Lexus dealer has also changed the windscreen wipers without charge. It doesn't cost them much to do this but it's nice that they do something without charge.

[solarpower]

2 hours ago, Thackeray said:

The first is a difficult question. What you're asking is will the car keep running for 16 years, reaching 120,000 miles by then? The answer, I suppose, is "we can't tell but probably yes", judging by the number of 16 year old Lexuses still around.For example, the HowManyLeft website shows that of around 32,000 IS200 cars registered in 2004, around 16,000 are still on the road or registered SORN. But what you also probably want to know is will it still be reliable or will it cost a lot to maintain. Anecdotally, the answer seems to be that Lexus is usually the most reliable brand in surveys.

I keep cars for a long time, too. So part of what attracted me to the hybrid IS300h was the fact that of things that might go wrong it has no gearbox, no starter motor, no alternator as such, no clutch; instead it has two electric motors. In my experience, electric motors last for ages without attention but whether that means the same for a hybrid car I have yet to find out.

Brakes, too, can get away with very little wear. After 50,000 miles, my brakes are around a quarter to one-third worn. That suggests they might last for 150,000 miles but we'll see, of course.

The cost of servicing at Lexus dealers is not cheap, though five-year-old cars get a discount. Service is due every year, unlike some German cars which might get away with every two years. One thing to bear in mind is that the IS300h 60,000 mile service is an expensive one because the spark plugs are replaced every 60,000 miles. The 100,000 mile service is expensive, too, but I can't remember what is done to increase the cost. But so far, I've had no extras charged when I've had the car serviced - unlike with German cars, where an extra unexpected £500 was fairly common.in my experience. More than once the Lexus dealer has also changed the windscreen wipers without charge. It doesn't cost them much to do this but it's nice that they do something without charge.

Thackeray, thank you- this is very insightful. Just wondering the expensive 60k service is by the miles or the 6th service if the car has not done 60k, assuming 10k service every year? 

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, solarpower said:

Thackeray, thank you- this is very insightful. Just wondering the expensive 60k service is by the miles or the 6th service if the car has not done 60k, assuming 10k service every year? 

Service is every 12 month or 10k miles, whichever comes first.

For the plugs it is 60k miles, not a duration so you can defer that part of the 60k service to whenever 60k miles comes up.

@Thackeray the 100k miles service is expensive because the engine and hybrid inverter coolant is first changed at 100k miles, and then every 50k miles thereafter.

[solarpower]

5 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Service is every 12 month or 10k miles, whichever comes first.

For the plugs it is 60k miles, not a duration so you can defer that part of the 60k service to whenever 60k miles comes up.

@Thackeray the 100k miles service is expensive because the engine and hybrid inverter coolant is first changed at 100k miles, and then every 50k miles thereafter.

Thank you Colin- how does the car drive in snow? Do you need to change to winter tyres as in BMWs?

[ColinBarber]

It is rear wheel drive so you do need to be careful. Winter tyres do really help but I never bothered for the 4 years I had my 300h.

[Paul Brooksbank]

I bought an IS300h at the end of December 2019, a 63 plate with 22,800 on the clock. Having owned both Honda and Mazda previously, the Lexus feels far better built than the others, and they are pretty well screwed together! 

The mileage I do is fairly similar to yours and I'm having no issues at all, with no Battery problems and on the coldest days I was getting 38 mpg around town and suburban. The Honda Civic gave me 28 to 32. On a long motorway run to St Albans on a very cold January day I got 58 mpg at almost warp speeds, the Civic gave me 48 mpg at best. 

Currently in lock down conditions I'm only doing the across town run and I'm on 44.5 mpg. Bear in mind that I'm running the F Sport which has wider tyres, hence a little less mpg than the standard saloon.

I have no issues with thoroughly recommending any Lexus to anybody. My colleagues who run German stuff, and that's all it is, are somewhat kicking themselves right now and every single one of them who've ridden in the Lexus has been totally gob smacked. Buy the IS, it's the only car I've ever owned where I'm impressed every time I do so much as click the seatbelt on. 

[Easterlily]

On 4/14/2020 at 10:06 PM, solarpower said:

Dear all,

I am considering buying Lexus IS300H and I currently have Golf 1.9 TDI. I am hoping you folks can illuminate me. My questions are:

1. I drive like 2-3 miles in start-stop traffic (max speed 30 mph) a couple of times a day. I am wondering would the IS300H batteries would last with this type of driving or they would die quickly? I I rarely do motorway driving, and my annual mileage will be around 6k to 7k miles. I tend to keep car for long time- historically ~8-10 years.
2. As I understand, IS300H drives initially in the EV mode. Is this true? Would I cover those distance in EV mode? How does this change in winter? What sort of mpg I can expect?
3. MPG is not my most important concern- I do not prefer usual cambelt changes, worn out clutches, brake pads etc. I assume they are negligible with IS300H. Right?
4. While I understand that a plug-in hybrid might be better for me but I hate the idea of charging car every day like mobile phones, and thus like the idea of self-charging hybrids (hence Battery concern in #1 above). I can't afford pure electric vehicles.

Thanks for helping me.

Solar

Without reading what the other members have answered I figured I'd give you my thoughts on the car and your questions.

First of all, the hybrid drive on the Lexus is very very clever. Its built in the way that you have to make very few actions on your own and makes its own decisions regarding Battery charge, temperature, mileage and fuel consumption. My regular daily drive is 2km road of varied 60km/h, 6km highway varied 80-110km/h and finally 1km of 50km/h, and the reverse when going home from work. Usually the final drive after highwaydriving is about 90% electric. I live in Sweden so during the winter season the car takes some time to heat up and you cannot drive electric during this process. My avarage consumption during the winter was 6.7L/100km. Now in the summer, the heat of the sun (15C ambient) usually is enough to drive electric from the start. The petrol engine only starts if you make a high acceleration or if the charge is low. (Occassionaly I guess it would start if you havnt used the car for a while just to make sure its good to go if you need to punch in). During the summer season i avarage 5.8L/100km. Note that both of these numbers have other routes included but id say 75% of the cars usage is according to above.

Now to your first question. I would say your driving route would most like make a good use of the Lexus hybrid drive. The thing to have in mind is that the hv Battery will probaby not have enough charge for doing electric all the time and the petrol engine will run more or less each drive to keep Battery level up. In my driving style I prefer to make a quicker acceleration up to the speed limit. If this limit is ~60km/h or less, once ive reached the speed i release the accelerator. This makes the car understand that you no longer need the petrol engine and if its not needed for any other reason it shuts down. Now I press the accelerator again and keep it withing the ECO zone of the tachnometer. This makes sure the car stays in electric mode. If bellow 50 km/h you can engage the EV-mode which forces the electric mode for as long as it can before the petrol engine have to take over, or you shut down the car. During this mode you can pass the ECO zone to some extent and you can actually accelerate quite fast without using the petrol engine at all. If the car thinks running EV mode would not be adequate due to low Battery or any other reason, it will tell you so and prohibit the mode. With this said, I think the car is smart enough to last you a long time with the type of driving you do. From what Ive learned the actual worst scenario for a hybrid is long way commute where speeds surpass 70km/h and higher. This eliminates most use of your electric motor and you would probaby do better with a diesel or a regular petrol and save the money the hybrid would cost you.

2nd question: When initiating the ignition button the car starts up all the electric components and the electric motor. It does not start in EV-mode per se and most of the time you cant select the EV-mode at this early state as the car wants to control this until the car heats up. With this being said, you can still, if the car is warm when started, make a long way without the petrol engine starting up. You mustnt expect a hybrid of this kind to make your whole commute completly electric as its not how the drive is meant to be driven. If this is what you are looking for, a plug in hybrid is more for the job. However, the Lexus hybrid will make the best it can to keep your mpg down and as said you will barely have to mind it at all. No external charging, no need to put it in certain modes etc. Finally, apart from the petrol engine, the hv Battery gets most of its charge from the ECB (electronic braking). This is probably the only thing you can do to help the hybrid do an even better job. Its hard to explain without trying it out but basically when you let go of the accelerator the car uses the momentum to regenerate Battery. Even more if you press the brake to a certain extent, the ECB takes even more of your cars momentum and slows you down while charging at the same time. To this point the regular disc brakes havnt been used at all, and you can deccelrate to 0 using the ECB if you start pressing the brakes very early before a traffic light for example. You can see this process on the technometer where there is a charge zone. If you keep pressing the brake after the technometer shows its charging at maximum, the regular wheel brakes engages and you slow the car down even further (although losing the potential charge you could have recieved and losing it as heat just as regular cars). Apart from this, i feel ive already answered this question above.

Your third question is about reliability and although i am the third owner of my Lexus and dont have a complete knowing of the cars history, I do know that the cars feel very sturdy and ive only noticed a few problems so far. You can check my other active forum topic regarding my two issues, one being a weird AC related noise and the other being a strange handbrake behaviour. However these are in my opinion only minior issues and dont bother me. Reading through the mechanics and service history, nothing strange has happened. The HV Battery was replaced when the car reached 5 years. I think the 300H is just as reliable as any other Lexus, or Toyota for that matter - but I guess only time will tell as im still quite new with the car.

I hope I could give you some insight with the car and please ask me if I didnt answer anything clearly.

 

[Easterlily]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:30 PM, solarpower said:

Thank you Colin- how does the car drive in snow? Do you need to change to winter tyres as in BMWs?

 

On 4/15/2020 at 10:48 PM, ColinBarber said:

It is rear wheel drive so you do need to be careful. Winter tyres do really help but I never bothered for the 4 years I had my 300h.

The car have a SNOW-mode that you can activate if you expect slippery roads. To my understanding It sharpens up the cars assistance systems like the ESC and make them trigger earlier than normal. Also it makes the car feel very cumpsy and slow requiring you to really floor the pedal to make a go, thus limiting the risk of you overaccelerating and slip down into the ditch. Living in Sweden and being forced to change to winter tyres during dec-april, id say this mode is not really that useful for me as the studded wheels do a great job on their own, its a good thing for those living in the more southern countries who make occasional trips up north, or have a month of so of snow.

Come to think of it, maybe not all european sold Lexuses have the SNOW mode and perhaps its a feature only found on nordic sold vehicles, but I figured id let you know anyway.

[ColinBarber]

12 minutes ago, Easterlily said:

Come to think of it, maybe not all european sold Lexuses have the SNOW mode and perhaps its a feature only found on nordic sold vehicles, but I figured id let you know anyway.

UK ones do have snow mode, and as you say probably more useful to us as the majority of owner won't fit winter tyres, and certainly not studded ones.

[holiday]

Hi congratulations on thinking of getting a lexus. You can’t go wrong on buying a reliable car.

I would suggest that you buy a service plan from the dealership as everything will be covered on additional items such spark plugs etc. It will be a lot cheaper we have saved over £200 compared to pay as you go and you won’t get a bill of £400 etc.

In addition I would also get an extended warranty on the 2 4 1 deal. You get 2 free MOTs on the plan and it’s unlimited miles. This will also include roadside assistance for you and another person and it’s AAs top package and it’s personal cover.

That’s what I would do 

[ColinBarber]

5 hours ago, holiday said:

I would suggest that you buy a service plan from the dealership as everything will be covered on additional items such spark plugs etc. It will be a lot cheaper we have saved over £200 compared to pay as you go and you won’t get a bill of £400 etc.

This is untrue. The service plan fully accounts for the price of the services it covers and is the same price as getting them done as you go at today's prices. If additional work is required, it is an extra cost with either option. The only thing the service plan does is allow you to spread payments and price protects you against price increases of pay as you go services.

[holiday]

19 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

This is untrue. The service plan fully accounts for the price of the services it covers and is the same price as getting them done as you go at today's prices. If additional work is required, it is an extra cost with either option. The only thing the service plan does is allow you to spread payments and price protects you against price increases of pay as you go services.

Our dealership in Leicester always provides us with a 20% discount on our plans and we don’t need to buy anything extra for the service departments. Hence we save money on it compared to doing it pay as you go.

furthermore, we get 10% off additional works if it’s not covered by warranty or a service schedule. 

[Nick W858]

On 14 April 2020 at 9:06 PM, solarpower said:

Dear all,

I am considering buying Lexus IS300H and I currently have Golf 1.9 TDI. I am hoping you folks can illuminate me. My questions are:

1. I drive like 2-3 miles in start-stop traffic (max speed 30 mph) a couple of times a day. I am wondering would the IS300H batteries would last with this type of driving or they would die quickly? I I rarely do motorway driving, and my annual mileage will be around 6k to 7k miles. I tend to keep car for long time- historically ~8-10 years.
2. As I understand, IS300H drives initially in the EV mode. Is this true? Would I cover those distance in EV mode? How does this change in winter? What sort of mpg I can expect?
3. MPG is not my most important concern- I do not prefer usual cambelt changes, worn out clutches, brake pads etc. I assume they are negligible with IS300H. Right?
4. While I understand that a plug-in hybrid might be better for me but I hate the idea of charging car every day like mobile phones, and thus like the idea of self-charging hybrids (hence battery concern in #1 above). I can't afford pure electric vehicles.

Thanks for helping me.

Solar

Hi Solar - I think you have had your questions answered. I bought my IS a 2014 model with 28k on the clock last year - if replaced a 22 year old LS400 with around 300k miles on the clock and if I wanted it too I would bet the IS will last the same time so long as regular servicing is carried out. I have also owned two ISFs both higher mileage 90k plus and my wife has a 2011 RX450h with over 130k on the clock - all these vehicles have been supremely reliable. As others have said, mpg will vary but for me it is very impressive. I did use winter tyres as I have the old wheels and tyres from my old LS - I didn't really need them this year but for me and where I live, I view winters as essential. Overall a very understated and underrated car - I have had all the prestige German stuff but the Lexus is very much my preferred option. Buy one and you will not be disappointed.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, holiday said:

Our dealership in Leicester always provides us with a 20% discount on our plans and we don’t need to buy anything extra for the service departments. Hence we save money on it compared to doing it pay as you go.

furthermore, we get 10% off additional works if it’s not covered by warranty or a service schedule. 

That's a great deal but unfortunately it is very much dealer specific, it isn't policy of Lexus GB or most dealers.

[ganzoom]

We've have owned our IS300H since 2015 and it's done 27k in that time.

The only thing we have replaced in that time is one set of tyres, and the key fob Battery.

The car is serviced every year, originally on a service pack with main dealer now at the local independent.

The IS300H is the most reliable car we have ever owned, it's never even needed any oil between services.

Personally I wouldn't bother with any warranty, that's why you are buying a Lexus, if you want to see unreliable go and buy a BMW or a Tesla!  

We were thinking of replacing it, but £10/year VED, a true 45-50mpg all year round, and barely £200/year for service+MOT makes for very good longterm ownership, now planning to keep it pretty much forever.

Someone mentioned snow, we seem to be warming up in the UK, what snow our IS has seen it had dealt with fine. The IS300H has the most aggressive TC system Ive driven in any car, despite been RWD the chances of you spinning out due to over steer in any condition is exactly 0. You can literally mash the throttle mid turn on fresh snow and the you will still not loss control. It drives more like a FWD car in snow than RWD. Plug in hybrids actually make little sense in any situation. If you are doing small miles your fuel bill will be tiny, and the reliability of the Lexus drivetrain will save you so much more stress/money compared to any plugin hybrid from BMW/Audi etc.

From the hassle free ownership experience point of view the IS300H really has been top of the class for us, and we owned plenty of Honda/Nissan's, you cannot really go wrong with these cars.

[solarpower]

5 hours ago, ganzoom said:

We've have owned our IS300H since 2015 and it's done 27k in that time.

The only thing we have replaced in that time is one set of tyres, and the key fob battery.

The car is serviced every year, originally on a service pack with main dealer now at the local independent.

The IS300H is the most reliable car we have ever owned, it's never even needed any oil between services.

Personally I wouldn't bother with any warranty, that's why you are buying a Lexus, if you want to see unreliable go and buy a BMW or a Tesla!  

We were thinking of replacing it, but £10/year VED, a true 45-50mpg all year round, and barely £200/year for service+MOT makes for very good longterm ownership, now planning to keep it pretty much forever.

Someone mentioned snow, we seem to be warming up in the UK, what snow our IS has seen it had dealt with fine. The IS300H has the most aggressive TC system Ive driven in any car, despite been RWD the chances of you spinning out due to over steer in any condition is exactly 0. You can literally mash the throttle mid turn on fresh snow and the you will still not loss control. It drives more like a FWD car in snow than RWD. Plug in hybrids actually make little sense in any situation. If you are doing small miles your fuel bill will be tiny, and the reliability of the Lexus drivetrain will save you so much more stress/money compared to any plugin hybrid from BMW/Audi etc.

From the hassle free ownership experience point of view the IS300H really has been top of the class for us, and we owned plenty of Honda/Nissan's, you cannot really go wrong with these cars.

Ganzoom, thank you. Out of curiosity where do you get service and MOT for £200 per year. I thought the Lexus minor serivce costs £395 and major costs £595.

 

[Charlie Alder]

Hello to you all and trust you are keeping well. A question for Easterlily. In your post you say the HV Battery was replaced after 5 years. Why was this?  The life expectancy of the Battery is much longer than 5 years or am I missing something.

[matt8]

50 minutes ago, solarpower said:

Out of curiosity where do you get service and MOT for £200 per year.

Local independent (not dealership).

My annual service costs around £120 and I have a cheap local MOT place doing no pass no fee, charging £15.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Charlie Alder said:

Hello to you all and trust you are keeping well. A question for Easterlily. In your post you say the HV battery was replaced after 5 years. Why was this?  The life expectancy of the battery is much longer than 5 years or am I missing something.

I don`t think he means HV Battery, he means 12v Battery.

The HV Battery is warranted by Toyota/Lexus for 15 years subject to certain conditions.