IS250 LPG

james250 · February 24, 2020

I came across some really old threads that discuss the possibility of LPG conversion on the IS250 and everyone was saying it's not possible because of the direct injection. Has the options changed now since then? reason I ask is i've seen on fleabay some examples of IS250's with LPG conversions which seems odd considering i've read it's not possible.

Bluesman · February 24, 2020

3 minutes ago, james250 said:

I came across some really old threads that discuss the possibility of LPG conversion on the IS250 and everyone was saying it's not possible because of the direct injection. Has the options changed now since then? reason I ask is i've seen on fleabay some examples of IS250's with LPG conversions which seems odd considering i've read it's not possible.

Best thing to do is to contact a conversion company and see what they have to say.

Britprius · February 24, 2020

It is possible to convert to LPG, but as with the GS450H some petrol has to be injected to keep the injectors cool. This means although less petrol is used you still use some even when running on LPG making the conversion less effective on fuel savings, and needing to do more miles before breaking even on installation costs.

John.

Linas.P · February 24, 2020

Consideration is fairly simple - how much fuel your car use, how much it will cost to install the LPG kit + complexity and how many miles you do.

IS250 is already fuel efficient car for displacement, most gains are when you equip non-injected car with DI LPG - it is no so much difference in fuel, simply leap in engine injection technology. IS250 is already DI, so not only there isn't much saving to be made, but as well there is additional complexity.

The cost of LPG kit varies, but for IS250 it will be complex and expensive + as mentioned it cannot even properly run on LPG or it will cause damage to injectors.

How much miles you do - if you do enough miles to justify cost of the kit then you already better of on diesel and if you do not do much miles, then the LPG kit will never cover it's own cost... so why bother.

Finally, I appreciate there are cars which can really benefit from LPG (mainly do to option of having DI in older car), like LS400, 430, GS430... they have very strong and still relatively simple port injected engines. So not only the car will run better, but it might even use less fuel + because they use quite a bit of fuel the breakeven point could be much sooner.

In car like IS250 LPG is just waste of time and money... and why would anyone even consider it on GS450h is beyond me... or logic.

Britprius · February 25, 2020

Linas.

The great majority of LPG conversions are done on cars with large engines because these are the vehicles that can make the greatest savings. I have driven a Prius that was converted, and that returned cost wise the equivalent of 110 MPG.
As far as converting a GS450h is concerned why not if Prius economy figures can be obtained. It maybe that some performance will be lost, but how much of the performance of the 450H can you use in normal use. I fail to see the logic of not converting if in use the car does even moderate millage if the problem of the injectors can be overcome.
To me diesel is not an option. I am driving a new rental Mercedes C class diesel at the moment "while my car is in the body shop", and find the constant drone gives me a headache. Add to this the terrible turbo lag, and diesel smell that lingers on your cloths every time I fill the car up is not my idea of driving pleasure. It also returns no better MPG than my 450H.

John.

Linas.P · February 25, 2020

As I have said already (and it seems we agree here) - larger, more thirsty, simpler and older engines makes more economical sense for LPG conversion.

I am not really that worried about performance, especially considering that it is possible to make so that performance is not lost - the simple fact is that LPG is cost saving measure. If LPG does not save the cost considering original installation, then it makes no sense. Again - the more economical and complex the car is, the less it will benefit from LPG, and once it goes into figures of 10s of thousands miles the questions should be asked - are you planning to keep the car forever? What if your annual mileage? How many years it will take?

Prius example is just silly - what is normal claimed MPG on it... something like 97MPG? Obviously, I appreciate that "real" MPG is going to be like 60, but still the question remains - how many miles you need to do just to cover cost of LPG system. Further prius is relatively simple car with small 4 banger - not comparable to larger and more complex v6s.

The diesel stinks?!. ohhhh yes.. because the LPG have a smell of the roses... If one cares about driving please, then certainly straight petrol is least offensive option.. I wanted to say electric, but there are other issues with that. So my point remains - considering average vehicle if one does so many miles that LPG makes sense over petrol, then the answer is - diesel. If one does not do many miles, then system will never pay for itself which defeats fundamental purpose of fitting it. I guess there are always exceptions - like city taxi using diesel is not great, even if it does a lot miles - so perhaps hybrid or electric is be best option.

Further how about:

Reduced size of the boot
Potential risk of fire - yes I know "properly" set-up LPG is "safe", but no one can deny risk is higher than factory fitted petrol... or indeed factory fitted LPG.
Difficult to find filling station
Difficult to fill
Reduced reliability... in general, you adding complex fuel system on another complex fuel system which is not factory installed
The smell of farts... and yes I know every LPG owner will say "properly" set-up system doesn't leak and there is no smell, but that is like cat or dog owners saying their pet does not have any smell... yes it does! Just a nature of the thing.

In summary it is very simple - there are cars which can benefit from LPG, but IS250 is not one of them. Perhaps the answer is - choose the right size/engine displacement and fuel type car for your needs, or even have multiple cars to get best of both options.

Britprius · February 25, 2020

The Prius I drove is now a taxi driven by a friend. It returns over 120 mpg in cost terms against 65 mpg as a normal Prius hybrid. He has calculated this saving pays for all service, and replacement costs of consumables such as tyres. It also paid for the conversion in it's first year of use. He had considered a plug in Prius, but this would need regular charging to gain any real advantage, and not possible under his circumstances.
As far as boot size reduction is concerned the LPG tank is in the spare wheel well, and is also where I would fit a tank in the 450H. This loss of spare wheel does not worry me as my car is 14 years old, and the spare has never been on the car. I do carry a small compressor, and an aerosol sealing kit.
As far as the Prius taxi goes if he has a puncture with passengers in the car he is not aloud to change the wheel using the spare and continue the journey anyway. One of the strange rules governing taxi's. So loosing the spare is not a problem.

I live in a rural area where gas filling is readily available so no problem there, and there are no problems with filling with gas.
While I agree the exhaust does smell this does not entre the car, and does not smell on you hands, and cloths every time you fill up as with diesel. Diesel exhaust smells just as bad as LPG.
Reliability is very good, but I agree anything can go wrong, but you can always switch back to petrol if needed.
I know anything can be proved by statistics, but Scandinavia where LPG use is common, and is used for there buses has had no increase in fires in vehicles due to the use of LPG. This cannot be said for countries with no LPG installation regulations. The safety of LPG is borne out by insurance premiums that in general are no higher for LPG, and can be cheaper for converted cars.

Again I agree there is a point where LPG conversion is not worth the cost, but that does not apply to every vehicle. It is more dependent on the use of the vehicle than the vehicle itself.

John.

Bluesman · February 25, 2020

Got to pick you up on some of your points Linas.

Reduced size of the boot. These days carrying a spare is not necessary with a can of puncture repair it will always get you out of difficulties.
Potential risk of fire - yes I know "properly" set-up LPG is "safe", but no one can deny risk is higher than factory fitted petrol... or indeed factory fitted LPG. There's no more risk of fire than there is with petrol fueled cars. As you know I and the wife have driven LPG converted cars for well over 25 years and in all that time we have never heard of a car going up in flames because of LPG but have seen lots of petrol driven cars go bang. You can also stand on a petrol tank and dent it, you could try doing it on an LPG tank and you will hurt yourself long before you have even put a scratch in the paintwork.
Difficult to find filling station. You soon find your local filling stations, when you travel further a field you can either do a quick check on your computers or ask your Satnav to find you the nearest one, of course in Europe it sold at lots more stations and on my frequent trips I used to make to the Czech Republic there was never a time when I ran out of LPG because I couldn't find a filling station.
Difficult to fill. If my wife can fill my LS and her Fiesta without moaning its difficult then filling is not a problem.
In all the 25 plus years we have driven converted to LPG cars we have never been let down by the LPG system breaking down. You must do your homework first if you are going to have a car converted make sure you get the best people to do the conversion and if you are buying a car already converted then get the system checked out by someone who knows what they are doing. All that done, Happy Motoring.

rich1068 · February 25, 2020

That's all very well but what about Linus' fart point? Eh? Come on Mike, spill the beans. As it were.

Bluesman · February 25, 2020

2 hours ago, rich1068 said:

That's all very well but what about Linus' fart point? Eh? Come on Mike, spill the beans. As it were.

I thought that in polite company it would be best to ignore the statement as well as I didn't have a clue about what Linas meant.

Britprius · February 26, 2020

In my opinion LPG fumes smell no worse than those of diesel exhausts, but the LPG is far less polluting.

John.

Bluesman · February 26, 2020

18 hours ago, rich1068 said:

That's all very well but what about Linus' fart point? Eh? Come on Mike, spill the beans. As it were.

3 Reasons Your Car Smells like Rotten Eggs

No one likes the lingering presence of an unpleasant or particularly potent smell. When driving, smelling a strong scent like that of sulfur — or “rotten eggs” — is often an indicator of a serious issue.

The smell comes from the small amount hydrogen sulfide, or sulfur, within the fuel. Hydrogen sulfide is usually converted into odorless sulfur dioxide. However, when something breaks within the vehicle’s fuel or exhaust system, it can inhibit this process and create the smell.

The byproducts and deposits causing the smell are left over from the incomplete combustion of gasoline being burned and can be traced to multiple system failures. Should the smell only occur briefly after using the engine at high revs, there is no serious issue to be concerned about. A lingering sulfur smell, however, needs to be investigated. Listed below are 3 reasons your car smells like sulfur.

1. Broken Catalytic Converter

The most likely culprit for a rotten egg smell, the catalytic converter is part of the vehicle’s emissions system. When gasoline reaches the catalytic converter, the converter transforms the trace amounts of hydrogen sulfide into the odorless sulfur dioxide. It is designed to reduce harmful emissions by “converting” exhaust gases, like hydrogen sulfide, into harmless gases. A broken or jammed catalytic converter cannot properly process the sulfur gases and will cause your car to smell like rotten eggs.

Should your catalytic converter be the cause of the smell, you need a new catalytic converter. If your converter is inspected and shows no signs of physical damage, another vehicle component has caused it to fail and needs repair.

2. Failing Fuel Pressure Sensor or Worn Out Fuel Filter

The fuel pressure sensor regulates the use of fuel in a vehicle. Should a fuel pressure regulator fail, it ends up clogging the catalytic converter with too much oil. Too much oil prevents the converter from processing all exhaust byproducts, which then exit the vehicle through the tailpipe and produce the rotten egg odor. An excessive amount of byproducts can also build up within the catalytic converter and cause it to overheat, also contributing to the smell.

In this case, a fuel pressure regulator problem can be fixed by replacing the regulator or fuel filter. A worn out fuel filter leads to the same problems caused by a bad fuel pressure sensor — an influx of sulfur deposits burned up in the catalytic converter.

3. Old Transmission Fluid

If you’ve missed one-too-many transmission flushes, the fluid may begin to leak into other systems and unleash a rotten egg smell. Typically only an occurrence in manual cars, changing transmission fluid as suggested by your car’s manufacturer can often solve the problem. Any leaks that appeared will need addressing as well.

Removing the Rotten Egg Smell

The best way to remove the smell of rotten eggs from your car is to replace the faulty part causing the smell. This could be a catalytic converter, fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter, or even old transmission fluid. Once the appropriate part gets replaced, the smell should disappear.

It’s important to take notice of all off or bad smells surrounding your vehicle. In addition to sulfuric odors, smoking or burning smells can indicate serious issues like an overheating engine, a fluid leak, or worn-out brake pads. Always seek the advice of an expert mechanic when it comes to diagnosing and repairing vehicle components.

Thank you to "Your Mechanic" https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/3-reasons-your-car-smells-like-rotten-eggs