Oops - what have I done! Bought RC200t

[dutchie01]

For a balanced view ( in my opinion) you can surf to Savagegeese review 2016 LexusRC200t goodbye.

[MartinH]

Link is here

[doog442]

On 2/8/2020 at 3:03 PM, MartinH said:

This was all very illuminating. I was toying with the idea of replacing my 07 Mk2 IS250 with Mk 3 200T. After reading the above, that idea goes in the bin.

Ignore ' the above '. There is some kind of element of 'fixation' ..so bad he went out and purchased one with the same power unit after years of slagging it off  Stockholm syndrome ? 

I owned an IS200t for two years. Its an extremely capable car for its class. As per the review you just linked it is one of the smoothest 4 pots out there that also comes with legendary Lexus reliability and build quality.

If you stuck it up against its immediate competitors for the years it was on sale in the UK it was bang up there, 0-60 in 6.1 if thats your thing, extremely smooth engine and pretty decent economy.  There was a suspicion of throttle lag but it was never an issue to me in sports mode. It's been addressed in later models.  

I thoroughly enjoyed my ownership and would have no hesitation in recommending the same power plant in the IS. 

I did back to backs with an IS250 at the same dealership ( a car that I'd previously driven for several months as a loaner) and the IS200t didn't let itself down so much so I bought one.   

 

Expect some kind of tirade to follow this post.

[MartinH]

Yes, the vid's narrator has a quite different take. The roads on which he drives are quite different than those in my hood. You may have heard that a 20 mph limit is to be installed throughout London. That is the reality, and as one who rides a bike as much as driving a car, I do not disagree. So the occasions on which one might engage Sport+ mode are relatively few and far between. I see there is a supposedly very rare Black Edition IS200T for sale on AutoTrader with a full-length panoramic roof, owned by a chap who says he is a Lexus tech, and at a good price. Yerbut...no Mark Levinson, boring dark interior, seats heated only, not cooled. Previous ownership makes one very choosy...

[Guest]

Linus has car-owner virus

Ber-dum tish. Thank you thank you

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[paulrnx]

I’ve been off the forum for some time. This is a funny thread. I remember how much Linda’s used to slag off the 200t. In fact he didn’t have much time for anything other than a 2nd gen IS250. I can’t take him seriously now because his judgement is clearly lacking 😂

[royoftherovers]

57 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I’ve been off the forum for some time. This is a funny thread. I remember how much Linda’s used to slag off the 200t. In fact he didn’t have much time for anything other than a 2nd gen IS250. I can’t take him seriously now because his judgement is clearly lacking 😂

If you means LINAS, then I think you will find him a much reformed and intelligible Member. Take note of what he says as not only is he knowledgeable and very well informed, he is more succinct than he ever was. You ignore him at you Peril !

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

I’ve been off the forum for some time. This is a funny thread. I remember how much Linda’s used to slag off the 200t. In fact he didn’t have much time for anything other than a 2nd gen IS250. I can’t take him seriously now because his judgement is clearly lacking 😂

Strange, because my opinion about the car has not changed even the smallest bit - hence the thread.

I have gotten myself very good deal, car was fully loaded and in right colour inside and out. The saddest thing is that everything I said about 200t was absolutely true. In fact I slightly surprised myself as at some point I even thought - "surely it cannot be that bad". Ohhhh boy... it is exactly that bad if not worse. Fuel consumption is certainly worse than anyone could imagine.

The reason why I ended-up getting 200t is well detailed in many of my posts (and as well I would have bought 300h if right colour, options, price would have been available). In summary, I thought I could not justify RC-F for daily driving, my IS250 was written-off by insurance and I always liked how RC looks. Only issue for me was the lack of engine options (350 would have been perfect) and at some point I simply decided that "I may be able to live with 200t/300h". In some sense it was necessity and not simply my choice, at that time this was the best option I could have. 

Now I know that was mistake and my plans are either upgrade to RC-F or LC when opportunity presents itself, or move to another brand as Lexus clearly does not have people like me in mind when they are putting together their range. 

[paulrnx]

I shall look forward to the highly entertaining reviews and reports of your ongoing ownership of a car you don’t like. 😀

[paulrnx]

Oops. Wrong thread. Post deleted. Sorry 😀

Edited October 31, 2020 by paulrnx
Wrong thread

[Linas.P]

22 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I shall look forward to the highly entertaining reviews and reports of your ongoing ownership of a car you don’t like. 😀

You can start from reading this thread then. Most of this is already covered.

As well, I never said I don't like the car, I just don't like the engine. It would be better with about any other engine including 250 from my old IS.

[paulrnx]

In your very first post you listed everything you didn’t like and the one thing you did like. Others suggested you only liked the look of the car and you agreed. You must admit you have been pretty vocal in the past about the engine and gearbox and then I read this thread and find out that you’ve only gone and bought one and then proceeded to tell everyone how the only thing you liked about the car was the look of it. Are you sure you’ve made the right decision Linas?

[Linas.P]

13 hours ago, paulrnx said:

Are you sure you’ve made the right decision Linas?

vs.

18 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I have gotten myself very good deal, (because) car was fully loaded and in right colour inside and out. 

The reason why I ended-up getting 200t is well detailed in many of my posts... In summary, I thought I could not justify RC-F for daily driving, my IS250 was written-off by insurance and I always liked how RC looks. In some sense it was necessity and not simply my choice, at that time this was the best option I could have. 

Now I know that was mistake and my plans .... 

Have you even looked at my post? or is it TLDR? if so just say it... 

Yes I like the looks and many other things about the car, yes I hate the engine because it is c*** engine and should have never been put in any car. So yes engine is bad, the car is mostly good. 

[royoftherovers]

Have you even looked at my post? or is it TLDR? if so just say it... 

 

TLDR is what please Linas ?

[J Henderson]

Too Long; Didn't Read

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

Too Long; Didn't Read

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
 

Fair do`s John. He is getting better, but is prone to the occasional meander. We are working on in !

[Linas.P]

I still believe that depending on the complexity of the topic it may need more words and explanation. This means that very complex topic my need entire 600 page  research paper to cover. Now I appreciate that nobody have time to read 1 page, never mind 600.... and as some of you have rightly highlighted - I sometimes deviate from topic at hand. 

However, in this particular thread I feel I was fairly clear - first post was rather long because it had to cover many topics, the purchase experience, the condition of the car, what I actually got and most complex of all - how did I decide to buy the car with the engine which I have criticised so much. The rest of the responses I think were pretty specific and on topic. 

That said I am surprised when people ask me the question which was answered literally in post above 😁

Actually, I probably need to do follow-up "long term" ownership update. Although in a year I just recently covered my 3000th mile in the car... 

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I still believe that depending on complexity topic may need more words and explanation. This means that very complex topic my need entire 600 page  research paper to cover. Now I appreciate that nobody have time to read 1 page, never mind 600.... and as some of you have rightly so highlighted - I sometimes deviate from topic at hand. 

However, in this particular thread I feel I was fairly clear - first post was rather long because it had to cover many topics, the purchase experience, the condition of the car, what I actually got and most complex of all - how did I decide to buy the car with the engine which I have criticised so much. The rest of the responses I think were pretty specific and on topic. 

That said I am surprised when people ask me the question which was answered literally in post above 😁

Actually, I probably need to do follow-up "long term" ownership update. Although in a year I just recently covered my 3000th mile in the car... 

I will do my very best, would have sufficed, Old Buddy !

[Linas.P]

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Actually, I probably need to do follow-up "long term" ownership update. Although in a year I just recently covered my 3000th mile in the car... 

@paulrnxSo.... lets start with the bad:

Engine is absolute disaster! I already explained intricacies with short power band, gearing, noise, but to add to it - fuel consumption is ridiculous! I really genuinely believed that trade-off between 2.5L V6 and 2.0L 4LT was that you loose linearity, sound and response, but you get slightly better fuel economy. Short answer - NO... ok maybe when just cruising on motorway... NO... maybe in some circumstances like in laboratory whilst moving through vacuum - NO! During lock-down I didn't commute to work, so ~90% of 3000 miles were on motorways which were completely empty and I just sat on cruise control all the time. Can you guess what is my MPG? I just going to give figure for comparison - in same conditions IS250 would have done 38-44MPG. As well I would add that RC-F MPG is literally better on average.

Indicator switches/stalks (as well affects IS mk3 and GS mk4). Not much to say there - Lexus tried, failed and gone back to proper indicators. I may look into retrofitting them, but honestly I neither plan to keep the car long enough, nor I love it enough to do it.

Cruise control - it is the same "analog" system Lexus/Toyota fitted in their cars probably since 1998. It was sort of acceptable in my IS250 (but it was 2008 car, not 2016). What is the problem with the system? Basically on most cruise controls, 1 click goes up by 1miles (sometimes 5), double-clicks goes to next round number and if you hold it then it will go up/down until you release it. RC (and older Lexus) does not have "rounding" but, in theory small adjustments should work (they worked on my IS250), but on RC they don't work - when you click once sometimes speed does not change at all, sometimes it changes by 2 or 3 or even 5 miles. Secondly, RC200t does not stick to the set speed - I mean single purpose of cruise control is to keep constant speed and it fails to do it! Just last week I was driving through roadworks with 50MPH limit and it was embarrassing, car at times would get as slow as 46MPH (I set it to 52!) and on the other times it would approach 56MPH (56 actually = 50). I suspect this again all to do with engine and gearbox, on the incline car simply does not have enough power to keep the speed and starts slowing down, then it changes the gear down starts accelerating and the blows past the set-speed. The speed varied on IS250 as well, but it would vary by 1 mile at most - not 6! Either way, this should not be the case. Just to *****-me off even further I got 2017 NX as loaner and cruise control works perfectly - has 1 mile adjustments, double-click to next limit and keeps the speed perfectly (the stalk looks the same). I am thinking maybe I need to ask Lexus to check it, maybe it is faulty?

Boot closing - it really seems to me like Lexus could have included electronic closing at this price point. It is not helped by the fact that struts are so potent I have to slam the boot very hard to close it. IS250 was not perfect, but it would simply unlatch when opened and was balanced well enough that you can open it with small finger, for closing - it would as well close with very little force and little press would latch it locked.

---------

Actually, I didn't much new that surprised me in a good way (except 1), but general list is below:

It looks stunning

It has all options which were available on this car

It is very rare and has presence above it's class (~BMW 4-Series) = to 6-Series BMW (even approaching 8-series), MB E-Class... people simply don't know what it is and what to think about it. If I park it next to £100k BMW 8 most people would not be able to tell which cars is "cool" or even more expensive... Certainly, nobody would guess it costed less than £20k.

It is unusual/original - people don't know if the car is slow or if it is fast (I am sure they assume it is very fast). Point is - it attracts a lot of positive attention.

It has most of conveniences I need in the car, phone connects automatically, music starts playing automatically, seats/mirrors/steering wheel adjust automatically, light adjust automatically. So you literally don't need to do anything when getting into the car - keep keys/phone in the pocket, everything is keyless/wireless. What else do you need from Luxury car?!

It is very practical with folding rear seats. I never understood why Lexus decided not to give IS folding rear seats, but RC for that reason alone actually turned out to be more practical car. I been in IKEA - it did better than RC. We even fitted 2 bicycles inside (took of wheels and they fitted) and went for hiking/cycling with my girlfriend. I couldn't do that with IS, so was surprised.

---------

Few points which are neither here nor there:

People complain that rear is cramped, leg-room/headroom is bad. Just reality of having coupe, my answer is: "this is not a taxi!"😁

I still use my phone as navigation, Lexus sat-nav and voice commands are next to useless, but hey! I knew it before buying. Android auto would be perfect thought - could be retrofitted for full Android infotainment system, but car just isn't worth £800 investment.

The driver seat failed and there is story with brakes, but I don't hold it against the car or the brand - kind of maintenance thing.

---------

In summary, what this car is missing to be perfect (and I mean not "better", but perfect):

1. Different engine - 450h or 350 would be perfect, better power, better fuel economy, more responsive, better sounding... 200t has no redeeming features in comparison. Not much else to say here.
2. Equipment in line with same model year SUVs, if they simply take tech they have in NX of same year it would be great car. I still don't understand why same priced and same year NX is just so much better equipped and up-to date?! Why NX has new and perfectly working cruise control, where RC does not. NX gets electronic boot closing, 360 degree camera, electronic/automatic parking brake/button, wireless charging for phone, glass roof - it even has proper indicator stalk! I guess this is all because RC was based on IS tech, but still one would not expect such discrepancy within the same brand. 

P.S. @royoftherovers - sorry mate, this one had to be long 😅

 

[royoftherovers]

11 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

So.... lets start with the bad:

Engine is absolute disaster! I already explained intricacies with short power band, gearing, noise, but to add to it - fuel consumption is ridiculous! I really genuinely believed that trade-off between 2.5L V6 and 2.0L 4LT was that you loose linearity, sound and response, but you get slightly better fuel economy. Short answer - NO... ok maybe when just cruising on motorway... NO... maybe in some circumstances like in laboratory whilst moving through vacuum - NO! During lock-down I didn't commute to work, so ~90% of 3000 miles were on motorways which were completely empty and I just sat on cruise control all the time. Can you guess what is my MPG? I just going to give figure for comparison - in same conditions IS250 would have done 38-44MPG. As well I would add that RC-F MPG is literally better on average.

Indicator switches/stalks (as well affects IS mk3 and GS mk4). Not much to say there - Lexus tried, failed and gone back to proper indicators. I may look into retrofitting them, but honestly I neither plan to keep the car long enough, nor I love it enough to do it.

Cruise control - it is the same "analog" system Lexus/Toyota fitted in their cars probably since 1998. It was sort of acceptable in my IS250 (but it was 2008 car, not 2016). What is the problem with the system? Basically on most cruise controls, 1 click goes up by 1miles (sometimes 5), double-clicks goes to next round number and if you hold it then it will go up/down until you release it. RC (and older Lexus) does not have "rounding" but, in theory small adjustments should work (they worked on my IS250), but on RC they don't work - when you click once sometimes speed does not change at all, sometimes it changes by 2 or 3 or even 5 miles. Secondly, RC200t does not stick to the set speed - I mean single purpose of cruise control is to keep constant speed and it fails to do it! Just last week I was driving through roadworks with 50MPH limit and it was embarrassing, car at times would get as slow as 46MPH (I set it to 52!) and on the other times it would approach 56MPH (56 actually = 50). I suspect this again all to do with engine and gearbox, on the incline car simply does not have enough power to keep the speed and starts slowing down, then it changes the gear down starts accelerating and the blows past the set-speed. The speed varied on IS250 as well, but it would vary by 1 mile at most - not 6! Either way, this should not be the case. Just to *****-me off even further I got 2017 NX as loaner and cruise control works perfectly - has 1 mile adjustments, double-click to next limit and keeps the speed perfectly (the stalk looks the same). I am thinking maybe I need to ask Lexus to check it, maybe it is faulty?

Boot closing - it really seems to me like Lexus could have included electronic closing at this price point. It is not helped by the fact that struts are so potent I have to slam the boot very hard to close it. IS250 was not perfect, but it would simply unlatch when opened and was balanced well enough that you can open it with small finger, for closing - it would as well close with very little force and little press would latch it locked.

---------

Actually, I didn't much new that surprised me in a good way (except 1), but general list is below:

It looks stunning

It has all options which were available on this car

It is very rare and has presence above it's class (~BMW 4-Series) = to 6-Series BMW (even approaching 8-series), MB E-Class... people simply don't know what it is and what to think about it. If I park it next to £100k BMW 8 most people would not be able to tell which cars is "cool" or even more expensive... Certainly, nobody would guess it costed less than £20k.

It is unusual/original - people don't know if the car is slow or if it is fast (I am sure they assume it is very fast). Point is - it attracts a lot of positive attention.

It has most of conveniences I need in the car, phone connects automatically, music starts playing automatically, seats/mirrors/steering wheel adjust automatically, light adjust automatically. So you literally don't need to do anything when getting into the car - keep keys/phone in the pocket, everything is keyless/wireless. What else do you need from Luxury car?!

It is very practical with folding rear seats. I never understood why Lexus decided not to give IS folding rear seats, but RC for that reason alone actually turned out to be more practical car. I been in IKEA - it did better than RC. We even fitted 2 bicycles inside (took of wheels and they fitted) and went for hiking/cycling with my girlfriend. I couldn't do that with IS, so was surprised.

---------

Few points which are neither here nor there:

People complain that rear is cramped, leg-room/headroom is bad. Just reality of having coupe, my answer is: "this is not a taxi!"😁

I still use my phone as navigation, Lexus sat-nav and voice commands are next to useless, but hey! I knew it before buying. Android auto would be perfect thought - could be retrofitted for full Android infotainment system, but car just isn't worth £800 investment.

The driver seat failed and there is story with brakes, but I don't hold it against the car or the brand - kind of maintenance thing.

---------

In summary, what this car is missing to be perfect (and I mean not "better", but perfect):

1. Different engine - 450h or 350 would be perfect, better power, better fuel economy, more responsive, better sounding... 200t has no redeeming features in comparison. Not much else to say here.
2. Equipment in line with same model year SUVs, if they simply take tech they have in NX of same year it would be great car. I still don't understand why same priced and same year NX is just so much better equipped and up-to date?! Why NX has new and perfectly working cruise control, where RC does not. NX gets electronic boot closing, 360 degree camera, electronic/automatic parking brake/button, wireless charging for phone, glass roof - it even has proper indicator stalk! I guess this is all because RC was based on IS tech, but still one would not expect such discrepancy within the same brand. 

P.S. @royoftherovers - sorry mate, this one had to be long 😅

 

All is forgiven old son. Your heart has bled. Your conscience is clear.And that I hope is the last we will hear of it !

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

All is forgiven old son. Your heart has bled. Your conscience is clear.And that I hope is the last we will hear of it !

Likely... unless I find something more, new or exciting to share 🤐

[royoftherovers]

Just now, Linas.P said:

Likely... unless I find something more, new or exciting to share 🤐

Time for bed said Zebedee.

[Linas.P]

Just now, royoftherovers said:

Time for bed said Zebedee.

nahhhh... to young for that. And when working from home it is enough to wake-up 8:45 and turn on PC, so I can afford staying late

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

nahhhh... to young for that. And when working from home it is enough to wake-up 8:45 and turn on PC, so I can afford staying late

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[paulrnx]

Hope you enjoy your car Linas. It's certainly a lovely looking car and well spec'd as you've said. Enjoy! And look forward to the RCF in time of course 😊