Power Back Door (Tailgate) not working on 2010 (Series 3) RX450h

[alitech]

13 hours ago, Herbie said:

All three of those are electrical so if none of them are working it would suggest an electrical problem, maybe a fuse?

You need to do more diagnostic testing now. When you press any of the buttons can you hear a click as though power is getting to the lock/latch assembly but it's mechanically not releasing? If you can't hear any click then it may be that power isn't getting there so you need to test for 12V on the latch/lock/motor assembly connector.

 

I mean no offence here Ali but are you sure there's a battery in the engine bay? I thought all these cars had the 12V battery under the boot floor and I've never heard of one that has one in the engine bay - even the workshop manuals I have don't show a battery at the front.

I'm off to bed now but will check back tomorrow.

 

I cannot hear any clicking or motors moving at all. I have tried to listen. No beeps or anything. This is so troubling. I think there is a small latch that allows us to open the boot from inside?

 

No offence taken, I think i had my old Honda CRV in mind when I said that. I will have another look. I always beleived there were always 2 batteries in the car. I saw one in the boot so I assumed it was a secondary Battery. 

 

 

[Patrick 450]

Thanks Herbie, I really appreciate this information

A quick question for anyone, I attach a picture of the manual boot opener that is accessible from inside the car boot. To me it looks like there is a cable or something missing from the little silver lever, there is a hole in the middle of it and a bit of wear around the edge. Is there something missing that may have snapped or come off?

[Herbie]

Yep, I'd say there's definitely something missing there Patrick. The photo below shows mine. I think you'll now need to take off that trim to get access underneath it to see what's going on.

It's absolutely lashing down here at the moment so I'll try to get a better photo when it stops raining.

[Vadim]

3 hours ago, Patrick 450 said:

Thanks Herbie, I really appreciate this information

A quick question for anyone, I attach a picture of the manual boot opener that is accessible from inside the car boot. To me it looks like there is a cable or something missing from the little silver lever, there is a hole in the middle of it and a bit of wear around the edge. Is there something missing that may have snapped or come off?

Patrick,

no, the lock looks all right. We all have the lever like that (like something is missing) in RX450h. Probably it is so because the lock mechanism might be shared between different models, and the lever was attached to something in a different model.

[Vadim]

2 hours ago, Herbie said:

Yep, I'd say there's definitely something missing there Patrick. The photo below shows mine. I think you'll now need to take off that trim to get access underneath it to see what's going on.

It's absolutely lashing down here at the moment so I'll try to get a better photo when it stops raining.

Herbie,

Could you forward the materials to me please?

 

I have a dead tail gate, exactly as Nick’s case in the beginning of this topic. Dismantled and checked the door lock and PBD motor / ECU - all look good with no visual issues, fuses clear etc, but all with no luck so far.

[Vadim]

The source of the trouble:

door lock, PBD mechanism and ECU - all nice and clean

[Nigel Haslam]

On 1/29/2020 at 8:31 AM, Herbie said:

Just sent you the same message Mick.

Hi Herbie, I have also got the same issue with PBD. I had my car serviced and also had a new auxiliary 12v Battery fitted. 

This was done at a local garage and he powered the car up by a auxiliary 12v portable unit as he said he has always done to prevent any issues. 

We have not used the boot as my wife commutes to and from hospital for work and never any use needed for the boot but I was washing the car today and found I couldn't open read tailgate 🙄

[alitech]

Hi Herbie

Is there some material you can pass on to me as well? Is there something that I can do on my own?

By the way, thanks for helping the community.

 

Ali

 

[Herbie]

@alitech@Vadim@Nigel Haslam

Just sent you what info I have by private message guys, hope it helps.

[Herbie]

Something I've just thought of - have any of you with the power back door problems tried using Techstream to run active tests or to see if it throws any light on things?

[Vadim]

9 hours ago, Herbie said:

Something I've just thought of - have any of you with the power back door problems tried using Techstream to run active tests or to see if it throws any light on things?

Yes, tried that, the Techstream in my case shows error “U0230 Lost Communication with Rear Gate Module“.

[Vadim]

Found some docs on testing the PBD unit connection on Toyota Venza for the above error:

http://www.tovenza.com/lost_communication_with_rear_gate_module_u0230_-1268.html

These may well apply to RX.

[Walus]

@Herbie, 

Same thing here boot does not open and no lights in there either, no two beeps etc. All was fine yesterday. Car started fine today too. Could you please send the info on how to diagnose the fault? Thank you.

[alitech]

Is it just me or is this issue happening for a lot of people all of a sudden? Its like these power rear door mechanisms all had a day of judgement this week in 2021.

Anyway, I am none the wiser. I don't know what techstream is and I have seen the material from you Herbie, many thanks for that. 

I am at a loss currently. If anyone has been able to figure out whats going on, please do share. 

 

 

[Walus]

Went to the car and unlocked it. The rear gate went up with a press of a button as it should, then 5 seconds later the lights in the boot went off and the gate would not close (other than manually). Went for a 10 minute drive, stoped and opened and closed the gate twice with the dash button. Came back open the gate once again and the lights in the boot went off and gate wouldn’t close. Intermittent for sure, but where to look for a fault?

Looks like a dodgy ground to me.

[Herbie]

42 minutes ago, Walus said:

@Herbie, 

Same thing here boot does not open and no lights in there either, no two beeps etc. All was fine yesterday. Car started fine today too. Could you please send the info on how to diagnose the fault? Thank you.

Just sent it to you by private message Tom. It's not a solution but will hopefully get you nearer to finding one.

[Andrewdb]

This is so annoying! I have tried everything, apart from checking the fuse because I can't get it out. Tailgate doesn't open either manually or automatically, no beeps. Don't want to take it to Lexus, no income at the moment. Any help appreciated. 

[Walus]

10 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Just sent it to you by private message Tom. It's not a solution but will hopefully get you nearer to finding one.

Thanks Herbie. Seems like a common issue with the RX. I would have thought that someone has found a solution to this already. 

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, alitech said:

Is it just me or is this issue happening for a lot of people all of a sudden? Its like these power rear door mechanisms all had a day of judgement this week in 2021.

 

1 hour ago, Walus said:

Thanks Herbie. Seems like a common issue with the RX. I would have thought that someone has found a solution to this already.

There certainly seems to be some weird cosmic thing going on with all these tailgates going faulty in the samw way and at the same time. There has to be something common to all of them.

So far, @Vadim has got most insight into the problem by using Techstream to see what's going on.

He discovered that he has a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) of U0230 - Lost Communication With Rear Gate Module.

The workshop manual does give quite a lot of information on troubleshooting this code but we could really do with other people to use Techstream to see if others have the same U0230 code or if they have something else.

Certainly, the symptoms all seem to correlate and that makes me think that it can't be a broken or damaged wire, or something physical in that sense. Surely half a dozen or more cars can't all have broken wires or faulty connectors all at the same time? Unlikely, to say the least.

However, something that does seem to be affecting lots of us at the same time is failed or failing (lower than normal voltage) 12V batteries and also the wet/cold weather.

The workshop manual states:

So, first thing to do is check the standing Battery voltage at the Battery terminals. While you're in there I'd also suggest checking the luggage area fuses as per this page. and also check for water ingress/dampness around the power back door lock/latch/motor assembly (have a look at Vadim's photos earlier in this topic) and also around the tailgate lift motor and ECU, both of which I think are situated under the headlining on the left-hand side.

I don't want to tempt fate but my tailgate is working as normal so I can't do anything here to further the cause. I really think that the most useful thing though is for more results from Techstream so please, if you have it or are willing to get it, please post your results in here so that we can see if a pattern emerges.

And finally, no one died and made me boss, so if you have any better ideas or think I'm talking rubbish, please shout out and let's see what we can do to beat this thing.

[Walus]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

 

There certainly seems to be some weird cosmic thing going on with all these tailgates going faulty in the samw way and at the same time. There has to be something common to all of them.

So far, @Vadim has got most insight into the problem by using Techstream to see what's going on.

He discovered that he has a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) of U0230 - Lost Communication With Rear Gate Module.

The workshop manual does give quite a lot of information on troubleshooting this code but we could really do with other people to use Techstream to see if others have the same U0230 code or if they have something else.

Certainly, the symptoms all seem to correlate and that makes me think that it can't be a broken or damaged wire, or something physical in that sense. Surely half a dozen or more cars can't all have broken wires or faulty connectors all at the same time? Unlikely, to say the least.

However, something that does seem to be affecting lots of us at the same time is failed or failing (lower than normal voltage) 12V batteries and also the wet/cold weather.

The workshop manual states:

So, first thing to do is check the standing battery voltage at the battery terminals. While you're in there I'd also suggest checking the luggage area fuses as per this page. and also check for water ingress/dampness around the power back door lock/latch/motor assembly (have a look at Vadim's photos earlier in this topic) and also around the tailgate lift motor and ECU, both of which I think are situated under the headlining on the left-hand side.

I don't want to tempt fate but my tailgate is working as normal so I can't do anything here to further the cause. I really think that the most useful thing though is for more results from Techstream so please, if you have it or are willing to get it, please post your results in here so that we can see if a pattern emerges.

And finally, no one died and made me boss, so if you have any better ideas or think I'm talking rubbish, please shout out and let's see what we can do to beat this thing.

It seems to me that the issue is rather systematic and therefore can be fixed. The Techstream code results would certainly help in confirming that. I don’t have it so a multimeter will have to do. 
My initial angle on this is that it could something to do with a dry joint at the ECU board. Either the ground is floating (unlikely as the board should be grounded in multiple points) or lack of/intermittent power supply. My bet is on the latter. If this is somewhere at the input to the board it should be easy to fix, if it is at one of the ICs, it is a completely different game. Either way the tailgate motor would have to come out for that.

I would also rule out the 12V supply from the auxiliary Battery. I had issue with flat Battery before so that the car would not power up, yet the tailgate would open just fine (manually). 

 

[Spacewagon52]

The common thread of this thread seems to be the 12V Battery draining. A low Battery seems to cause no end of issues with faults appearing. The common issue causing all these Battery problems is lockdown and lack of use. 

Keeping the Battery topped up seems to be very important. 

I believe I read on here somewhere you should only use a smart charger. 

Is the 12v Battery in the RX 400 and 450h an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) like the Prius? 

[ColinBarber]

18 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Is the 12v battery in the RX 400 and 450h an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) like the Prius? 

400h no, 450h yes.

[ColinBarber]

5 hours ago, Walus said:

Went to the car and unlocked it. The rear gate went up with a press of a button as it should, then 5 seconds later the lights in the boot went off and the gate would not close (other than manually). Went for a 10 minute drive, stoped and opened and closed the gate twice with the dash button. Came back open the gate once again and the lights in the boot went off and gate wouldn’t close. Intermittent for sure, but where to look for a fault?

Looks like a dodgy ground to me.

If the ECU were in the tailgate itself I'd agree that a dodgy ground/wiring could be the cause. But it is in the roof, with fixed wiring so not sure how multiple people can all suddenly get poor wiring, and Vadim's pictures don't suggest water ingress at the motor/ECU is the cause.

Given that error U0230 is produced then it can really only be one of two things:

ECU isn't powered up - three fuses need to be checked:

• 30A PBD
• 10A ECU-B No.1
• 10A ECU-IG1 No.1

If the fuses are ok, then voltage at the ECU needs to be checked. Possibly the ECU has developed a fault through the Battery failing, or incorrect Battery charging.

Those who have a fault - did you charge up your old Battery? What charger and mode did you use?

 

Secondly the CAN MS communication bus has a problem - if it were on the main branch then you would have issues with mirrors and steering wheel tilt etc. so it is possibly just on the branch going to the power door ECU - that would need to be resistance checked to make sure you see 60 ohm to indicate both 120 ohm terminators are connected. If water is in the connection where it branches, a different resistance should be seen.

[Walus]

39 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

If the ECU were in the tailgate itself I'd agree that a dodgy ground/wiring could be the cause. But it is in the roof, with fixed wiring so not sure how multiple people can all suddenly get poor wiring, and Vadim's pictures don't suggest water ingress at the motor/ECU is the cause.

Given that error U0230 is produced then it can really only be one of two things:

ECU isn't powered up - three fuses need to be checked:

• 30A PBD
• 10A ECU-B No.1
• 10A ECU-IG1 No.1

If the fuses are ok, then voltage at the ECU needs to be checked. Possibly the ECU has developed a fault through the battery failing, or incorrect battery charging.

Those who have a fault - did you charge up your old battery? What charger and mode did you use?

 

Secondly the CAN MS communication bus has a problem - if it were on the main branch then you would have issues with mirrors and steering wheel tilt etc. so it is possibly just on the branch going to the power door ECU - that would need to be resistance checked to make sure you see 120 ohm to indicate both 60 ohm terminators are connected. If water is in the connection where it branches a different resistance should be seen.

I had an issue with a Battery 2 months ago. Replaced it, charged anew one in the car, and the fault only developed now. Highly unlikely that a Battery is an issue here. If charging or low Battery has caused this issue it would first of all be permanent not intermittent, and second of all it would surface right after. 

[ColinBarber]

 

12 minutes ago, Walus said:

I had an issue with a battery 2 months ago. Replaced it, charged anew one in the car, and the fault only developed now. Highly unlikely that a battery is an issue here. If charging or low battery has caused this issue it would first of all be permanent not intermittent, and second of all it would surface right after. 

Agreed, more likely is moisture with the recent weather, which could also explain the intermittent nature that some people are experiencing. But why this year rather than previous ones - weather hasn't been that bad. If it is age, I don't recall this being reported before with the oldest 2009 models.

Possibly a combination of the weather and cars not being driven so moisture builds up.