Strange sound from wheels when on full lock

[Solo Man]

Does anyone know what the odd knocking/hard clicking noise is when turning on full lock? Its as if the tyres are catching mud flaps (which I don’t have!).

[Upex]

I had similar, was ball joints. Easy diy, but check parts well, as I ended up with lower arms that I didnt need, as checked wrong drawings 🤦‍♂️

[johnatg]

There's probably nothing wrong. The steering geometry goes all to pot at full lock and one or both tyres have to not follow a perfect curve so they slip - what you hear is the tyres scraping on the road surface. (It's usually just the 'inside' one - ie right hand tyre on a right hand turn and vice versa)

My IS250 did it, as does my GS300h, but worse.

Search Google for Ackermann steering - you'll find articles which explain it and why the geometry can go wrong at extreme steering angles.

[Hangie]

It is just your summer tyres getting too hard at current low temperatures.

You can change to winter ones (all-seasons might work too) or just wait till it get warmer.

 

[superatticman]

Is this known as 'crabbing?' my gs250 does it from time to time.

[NemesisUK]

My RC does it during the colder days.

Many marques do it, including Mercedes and Porsche....

[royoftherovers]

My Merc does it too, occasionally.

[superatticman]

Is actually a big issue with the Mercedes GLC models. A guy who runs my local body shop owns one and has even tried to get Mercedes to take it back as being unfit for purpose. 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2017-01/mercedes-dealer-refuses-to-accept-ruling-of-motor-ombudsman-over-glc-crabbing-issue/

[rayaans]

My RX did it too. Essentially a car wants to go straight when the accelerator is pressed even if the steering wheel is turned full lock.

On the RX the front tyres had <3mm tread, bought new tyres and it resolved

[Solo Man]

Thanks all. Very interesting. By the sound of it, the best I can do is not use full lock! My previous car was an IS250 which had a very tight lock. I could almost do a u-turn on a side road, but I had no such issues! Heh ho.

[NemesisUK]

The fashion for wide, ultra low profile tyres doesn't help the situation.

[rich1068]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:53 AM, johnatg said:

Search Google for Ackermann steering - you'll find articles which explain it and why the geometry can go wrong at extreme steering angles.

 

On 1/20/2020 at 10:12 PM, NemesisUK said:

My RC does it during the colder days.

Many marques do it, including Mercedes and Porsche....

 

20 hours ago, superatticman said:

Is actually a big issue with the Mercedes GLC models. A guy who runs my local body shop owns one and has even tried to get Mercedes to take it back as being unfit for purpose. 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2017-01/mercedes-dealer-refuses-to-accept-ruling-of-motor-ombudsman-over-glc-crabbing-issue/

 

16 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

The fashion for wide, ultra low profile tyres doesn't help the situation.

The Mercedes situation is eye opening. Not sure how many of you are on Twitter but there's a video from Matt Prior of Autocar in a £75k GLC63 maneuvering in a car park and it sounds like something's going to fall off 

 Related-ish: I think it's real shame about Mercedes. Anyone who still believes they're a premium brand is just kidding themselves.

[Texas]

Suffering the same here! I know it's not a fix but try not to use full lock if the noise un-nerves you! Don't think it's that detrimental to tyres for the amount of times it's gonna happen but still any sound like that it can't be good!

paul m.

[Cotswold Pete]

Just to throw in a thought, I had same issue with my LS, but new shocks stopped it.

 

[Hangie]

22 hours ago, superatticman said:

Is actually a big issue with the Mercedes GLC models. A guy who runs my local body shop owns one and has even tried to get Mercedes to take it back as being unfit for purpose. 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2017-01/mercedes-dealer-refuses-to-accept-ruling-of-motor-ombudsman-over-glc-crabbing-issue/

I won't agree with it. It is not car which is not fit for purpose but summer tyres, and solution is easy just buy tyres which are fit for winter/low temp. It is the same like going hiking in flip flops and complain that track is too rough 🙂

UK is one of those countries were peoples don't bother with winter tyres but it still get cold from time to time hence we got those issues here. In Germany everyone is on winter tyres hence no problem there.

If you got that issue on winter tyres and with no extreme cold (like below -20C) I would then say it is a car fault.

[Hangie]

1 hour ago, Cotswold Pete said:

Just to throw in a thought, I had same issue with my LS, but new shocks stopped it.

 

Faulty shocks/springs can contribute to that but I doubt few years old car will have issue with those 🙂

[rich1068]

2 hours ago, Hangie said:

I won't agree with it. It is not car which is not fit for purpose but summer tyres, and solution is easy just buy tyres which are fit for winter/low temp. It is the same like going hiking in flip flops and complain that track is too rough

Nah, not having that. A £75k car that makes that noise on the factory fit wheels and tyres and mainly seems to affect rhd vehicles? I'd park that in front of the showroom doors, put a disklok on it and leave it there until someone agreed to take it back. It's wholly reasonable to expect your car not to make that noise when you park. It's fashion over engineering, proper lowest common denominator stuff and the manufacturer/dealer should be held to account.

[royoftherovers]

7 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Nah, not having that. A £75k car that makes that noise on the factory fit wheels and tyres and mainly seems to affect rhd vehicles? I'd park that in front of the showroom doors, put a disklok on it and leave it there until someone agreed to take it back. It's wholly reasonable to expect your car not to make that noise when you park. It's fashion over engineering, proper lowest common denominator stuff and the manufacturer/dealer should be held to account.

Quite right Richie.

[rich1068]

I've returned new cars after very long battles with manufacturers/dealers. I fully appreciate how bloody arrogant they can be.

[royoftherovers]

9 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

I've returned new cars after very long battles with manufacturers/dealers. I fully appreciate how bloody arrogant they can be.

Crooks, Rogues, Smarmy would not be inappropriate words to describe most of them !

[rayaans]

23 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Nah, not having that. A £75k car that makes that noise on the factory fit wheels and tyres and mainly seems to affect rhd vehicles? I'd park that in front of the showroom doors, put a disklok on it and leave it there until someone agreed to take it back. It's wholly reasonable to expect your car not to make that noise when you park. It's fashion over engineering, proper lowest common denominator stuff and the manufacturer/dealer should be held to account.

Although most manufacturers do recommend winter tyres which removes the problem during the winter which is when it happens most.

[superatticman]

1 hour ago, rich1068 said:

Nah, not having that. A £75k car that makes that noise on the factory fit wheels and tyres and mainly seems to affect rhd vehicles? I'd park that in front of the showroom doors, put a disklok on it and leave it there until someone agreed to take it back. It's wholly reasonable to expect your car not to make that noise when you park. It's fashion over engineering, proper lowest common denominator stuff and the manufacturer/dealer should be held to account.

Agreed. The German prestige manufacturers are the worst offenders. Often totally failing to acknowledge engineering failings in their products. There were shades of this in my old E60. Appallingly engineered components that naturally only fail when the car is a good few years past its road test and review. A car that got 5/5 new will become a 3/5 for second hand ownership all things considered. 

However as for the 'crabbing' on the GS. At the very least my Lexus dealer acknowledged it can happen on certain tyres. My car only has 30k on and suspension etc is still in excellent condition. The day before I took it in for a service I'd actually spent around 15 mins and around 50 turns on full lock to replicate it without success. So it really is a minor, minor issue that only springs up under certain conditions. 

[Dapprman]

Mine started doing it as well - though tbh it may well have just been when the temperature was ~0 and I was just pulling backwards off the drive.  I've a service due shortly so have asked Hatfield Lexus to look at it.  Not happened again since the new year started.