Run over pothole - result is a flat tyre!

[Vlady]

Received another email from council (more accurate from FOIreviews), looks like I am going to loose this fight as I can't prove that the Council knew about that pothole. 

I hit the pothole on 17th and it was fixed on 20th of December, apparently 2 people complaint about this pothole on 20th and Council fixed it the same day, I really doubt that they can react that quickly but this is the answer I have.

I have seen some reports online about that pothole but apparently these were made not directly to Council but through other firms (like fixmyroad etc).

I am very surprised Council didn't know about it but their records show they didn't, unless I was provided only with what they want me to see. 

So everyone please report these stupid potholes to your Local Council (no one else) as otherwise drivers like me won't get a chance to reclaim money back for the damage caused by the wonderful roads we have in UK!

[The-Acre]

14 minutes ago, Vlady said:

Received another email from council (more accurate from FOIreviews), looks like I am going to loose this fight as I can't prove that the Council knew about that pothole. 

I hit the pothole on 17th and it was fixed on 20th of December, apparently 2 people complaint about this pothole on 20th and Council fixed it the same day, I really doubt that they can react that quickly but this is the answer I have.

I have seen some reports online about that pothole but apparently these were made not directly to Council but through other firms (like fixmyroad etc).

I am very surprised Council didn't know about it but their records show they didn't, unless I was provided only with what they want me to see. 

So everyone please report these stupid potholes to your Local Council (no one else) as otherwise drivers like me won't get a chance to reclaim money back for the damage caused by the wonderful roads we have in UK!

Sorry to hear that.  The government have said they're going to put more money into roads and pot holes but I'm not holding my breath!  I do report bad ones but they still take ages to do anything.  What bugs me is the way they don't bother clearing all the stones and gravel from these holes when it gets strewn across the road.

[Vlady]

17 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

Sorry to hear that.  The government have said they're going to put more money into roads and pot holes but I'm not holding my breath!  I do report bad ones but they still take ages to do anything.  What bugs me is the way they don't bother clearing all the stones and gravel from these holes when it gets strewn across the road.

Phil I agree, it takes ages to for the council to do anything and in my case this was fixed the same day after 2 reports, very suspicious! It is hard to believe that there were no reports (it was a big pothole) and then one day 2 reports appeared and council fixed it straight away! Ideal world, huh?! 🙂

I think every government makes the same promise, every 4-5 years, when new elections are, to fix the roads, to invest more in the roads and then all happens the same, money being spent through private companies who take the money of the government and do not give a **** how good it was repaired, actually the worth it is fixed the quicker they need to come back to it and charge the council again! 

Road repairs should be controlled and fixed by council and not private companies! And not patched up but properly excavated, cleaned and then fixed.

And these stones Phil, it is common sense , isn't it? Just clean these, obviously they damage the new tarmac!

[08ISF]

The councils always try the "we didn't know about it " ploy to abdicate responsibility. What were the dates of the online postings? Before your incident? Generally when I report on Fix My Street it is sent to the council immediately so they cannot claim they didn't know. This is the beauty of using online 3rd parties to report it. It makes denial that much more difficult. I'd keep after them and if you can  provide evidence of a report prior to your incident then they should roll over. The other thing you might try is to ask for a copy of their inspection report for the road prior to the event. They won't be able to provide it because it won't exist.

 

[Vlady]

3 hours ago, 08ISF said:

The councils always try the "we didn't know about it " ploy to abdicate responsibility. What were the dates of the online postings? Before your incident? Generally when I report on Fix My Street it is sent to the council immediately so they cannot claim they didn't know. This is the beauty of using online 3rd parties to report it. It makes denial that much more difficult. I'd keep after them and if you can  provide evidence of a report prior to your incident then they should roll over. The other thing you might try is to ask for a copy of their inspection report for the road prior to the event. They won't be able to provide it because it won't exist.

 

Hi Graham, thanks for your input, yes, council will try anything to avoid responsibility, otherwise they would be paying anyone, I guess. What's pisses me off is that I have photos o the pothole, damage tyre and I still can't win it!

Inspection report I have says that the road to be checked 12 times a year (8 by car and 4 by foot, roughly every month), last time it was checked on 20th of November so the next time would be 20th of December (+/- 5 days) and I hit the pothole on 17th of December. Last inspection report (on 20th of November) says there were no defects on the road and between last inspection and the 20th of December there were no complaints from drivers about that bit, the only 2 they had was on 20th of December and it was fixed the same day, this is what I call service! 🙂

I do not know how to check if this road was reported before, all I could find that this (see below), it is dated as February but someone put a comment that this was reported for the last 6 months! I have sent this screenshot to the council and they didn't comment on it.

 

[Barry14UK]

Where we are in Devon when the Council gets round to 'repairing' pot holes, this is done by just depositing a spade(s) of asphalt type material and banging it down.  None of the adjacent fissures are cut  out before starting so very soon these begin to open up and lose contact with the repaired hole.  Because the repair is poorly done and without stones, this also breaks away so before very long we have a wider hole than ever before.  It's obvious that the 'C' virus impact on finances has forced Councils to cut back still further on road maintenance rather than what is seen as more vital areas.  Originally, the Road Fund was set up for maintaining roads and infra structure but the money just goes into the pot for competing interests.  The only way things will improve is if an adequate sum is ring fenced for the roads as was originally proposed.

Meanwhile, it is incumbent on all just as soon as they become aware to report pot holes.  These can not only cause damage to all road users but pose a serious risk of injury to cyclists and motorcyclists.

If you can establish the Council didn't respond in appropriate time you can take them to the small claims court.  I did this some years ago in fairly similar circumstances after initial denied Council responsibility but after I told them I was going to small claims court they paid up.  It was a not in Devon though.   

[RgrWynne]

18 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Where we are in Devon when the Council gets round to 'repairing' pot holes, this is done by just depositing a spade(s) of asphalt type material and banging it down.  None of the adjacent fissures are cut  out before starting so very soon these begin to open up and lose contact with the repaired hole.  Because the repair is poorly done and without stones, this also breaks away so before very long we have a wider hole than ever before.  It's obvious that the 'C' virus impact on finances has forced Councils to cut back still further on road maintenance rather than what is seen as more vital areas.  Originally, the Road Fund was set up for maintaining roads and infra structure but the money just goes into the pot for competing interests.  The only way things will improve is if an adequate sum is ring fenced for the roads as was originally proposed.

Meanwhile, it is incumbent on all just as soon as they become aware to report pot holes.  These can not only cause damage to all road users but pose a serious risk of injury to cyclists and motorcyclists.

If you can establish the Council didn't respond in appropriate time you can take them to the small claims court.  I did this some years ago in fairly similar circumstances after initial denied Council responsibility but after I told them I was going to small claims court they paid up.  It was a not in Devon though.   

My friend who is an engineer destroyed his tyre in a pothole in Devon 2 years ago. Being pedantic, he did everything by the book, photos, location ,date, time etc. He kept all the receipts for the new tyre and prepared to claim. Happily for him, our joint friend is a retired Council Highways and Borough Engineer of a large Council, so knows the law inside out and all the right questions to ask. So totally prepared he set about claiming with correspondence flowing back and forth, slam dunk , so he thought.

The end result after all of this, and I know some people will argue how unfair, which it is, and what else you should do, was total rejection of the claim and he got zilch. Bear in mind my friend had the best advice you could have, but in the end, claiming, in my opinion is a complete waste of your time. Put it down to experience, and move on.

[royoftherovers]

56 minutes ago, RgrWynne said:

My friend who is an engineer destroyed his tyre in a pothole in Devon 2 years ago. Being pedantic, he did everything by the book, photos, location ,date, time etc. He kept all the receipts for the new tyre and prepared to claim. Happily for him, our joint friend is a retired Council Highways and Borough Engineer of a large Council, so knows the law inside out and all the right questions to ask. So totally prepared he set about claiming with correspondence flowing back and forth, slam dunk , so he thought.

The end result after all of this, and I know some people will argue how unfair, which it is, and what else you should do, was total rejection of the claim and he got zilch. Bear in mind my friend had the best advice you could have, but in the end, claiming, in my opinion is a complete waste of your time. Put it down to experience, and move on.

A bit surprising Roger that such a clever man did not pursue via the Small Claims Track of the County Court ?

 

I informed Cheshire West and Chester Authority recently of a repair that needed attending to . I did it via the appropriate section of its website and received an instant acknowledgement along with an allocated reference number. That afternoon, the necessary work was ring marked and 2 days later, was completed.

So, it can be done Roger and those Authorities not complying with their responsibilities should be pursued. Just reporting and having all of the necessary documents and receipts comes to nought if the original complainant does not use the full force of the law.

[RgrWynne]

18 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

A bit surprising Roger that such a clever man did not pursue via the Small Claims Track of the County Court ?

 

I informed Cheshire West and Chester Authority recently of a repair that needed attending to . I did it via the appropriate section of its website and received an instant acknowledgement along with an allocated reference number. That afternoon, the necessary work was ring marked and 2 days later, was completed.

So, it can be done Roger and those Authorities not complying with their responsibilities should be pursued. Just reporting and having all of the necessary documents and receipts comes to nought if the original complainant does not use the full force of the law.

Hi John, thanks for your reply, but of course where you have a determined authority who has a very clever answer to every angle, which we deduced, the law is absolutely not the answer, unless of course you wish to waste time and money. There are specific procedures a local authority must go through, which covers them. We even used the freedom of information act to gain knowledge, and my friend still could not have won, because they had tacitly covered their tracks, nothing to do with being a clever man. In fact their were two very clever men, and that did not include me !!!

[royoftherovers]

20 minutes ago, RgrWynne said:

Hi John, thanks for your reply, but of course where you have a determined authority who has a very clever answer to every angle, which we deduced, the law is absolutely not the answer, unless of course you wish to waste time and money. There are specific procedures a local authority must go through, which covers them. We even used the freedom of information act to gain knowledge, and my friend still could not have won, because they had tacitly covered their tracks, nothing to do with being a clever man. In fact their were two very clever men, and that did not include me !!!

Thanks Roger, clearly you and the other two very clever men were outsmarted or outwinked or outflanked etc. It must have been both difficult and frustrating for all of you.

The Small Claims Track does however provide the Man on the Clapham Omnibus to have his day without incurring much time or effort.

Another time perhaps?

[Vlady]

20 hours ago, RgrWynne said:

Hi John, thanks for your reply, but of course where you have a determined authority who has a very clever answer to every angle, which we deduced, the law is absolutely not the answer, unless of course you wish to waste time and money. There are specific procedures a local authority must go through, which covers them. We even used the freedom of information act to gain knowledge, and my friend still could not have won, because they had tacitly covered their tracks, nothing to do with being a clever man. In fact their were two very clever men, and that did not include me !!!

Roget, this is how I feel - disappointed and furious. I honestly thought it will never happen to me as I consider myself a careful driver and even sometimes think that other drivers that follow me thinking I am drunk but all I do is avoiding potholes (on some of the roads) or slowing down significantly when I know the road ahead is in bad condition.

I thought I covered everything, I took photos, I kept the damaged tyre (still have it), I kept all the receipts and still can't win it. I even got my neighbor to go with me to show that pothole and he took some photos too, so I even have a witness but Council says they were not aware of the road damage at that location, I have seen their latest report (almost a month before I hit it) and it does say nothing i.e no damage could be seen at that time.

What surprises me is that it was reported (according to council) on 20th of December by 2 drivers and the pothole was fixed the same day, how can it be!?

Anyway, I would keep on them but I do not know how to check if that particular pothole was reported to Council prior me hitting it.

[08ISF]

If they are denying, the only thing I can suggest is do a Google search on "Potholes report" This will show up a number of  independent online sites where you can report potholes. Go through each of them and see if your pothole was reported by anyone prior to you hitting it. Most of these report immediately to the council so even if the council's own records have been "amended" they can't change what is on the reporting sites servers. You will find that there are also some ambulance chasing lawyers out there who might take up your case but you will have to use your own judgement about whether to go this route.

If you can find any evidence that they knew about the pothole before your incident, I would  make copies of it and then threaten the Small Claims procedure ( does this work in Scotland?)

Faced with the possibility of having to go to court and employ solicitors (£££)  they might just decide it's worth paying out.

 

Good luck

 

Graham

[royoftherovers]

23 minutes ago, 08ISF said:

If they are denying, the only thing I can suggest is do a Google search on "Potholes report" This will show up a number of  independent online sites where you can report potholes. Go through each of them and see if your pothole was reported by anyone prior to you hitting it. Most of these report immediately to the council so even if the council's own records have been "amended" they can't change what is on the reporting sites servers. You will find that there are also some ambulance chasing lawyers out there who might take up your case but you will have to use your own judgement about whether to go this route.

If you can find any evidence that they knew about the pothole before your incident, I would  make copies of it and then threaten the Small Claims procedure ( does this work in Scotland?)

Faced with the possibility of having to go to court and employ solicitors (£££)  they might just decide it's worth paying out.

 

Good luck

 

Graham

Graham is right Vlad. Pusue it with vigour as he suggests and if appropriate pursue through The Sheriffs Court in Scotland.

Too many Authorities bully people, but they think twice when the Court`s papers drop on their doorstep.

[Vlady]

Thanks gents for support. Do you think I need to contact Sheriff Court first or I better send an email to Council saying that if they don't want it peacefully then I will be contacting the court?

As Graham suggested I will try to find more reports online and see if there is anything regards that road.

Many thanks everyone!

 

[royoftherovers]

24 minutes ago, Vlady said:

Thanks gents for support. Do you think I need to contact Sheriff Court first or I better send an email to Council saying that if they don't want it peacefully then I will be contacting the court?

As Graham suggested I will try to find more reports online and see if there is anything regards that road.

Many thanks everyone!

 

Vlad,

You need to satisfy yourself that you have a case to pursue.

Have a read of this first. https://www.councilclaims.co.uk/highway-authority-duties/

[Vlady]

8 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Vlad,

You need to satisfy yourself that you have a case to pursue.

Have a read of this first. https://www.councilclaims.co.uk/highway-authority-duties/

Will do John, thank you.

[RgrWynne]

4 hours ago, Vlady said:

Thanks gents for support. Do you think I need to contact Sheriff Court first or I better send an email to Council saying that if they don't want it peacefully then I will be contacting the court?

As Graham suggested I will try to find more reports online and see if there is anything regards that road.

Many thanks everyone!

 

Good luck Vlad, I sincerely hope you get something and will watch out for your report. I’m afraid councils are very wise to these situations and doubt threats will work. You have to dot every i and cross every T to win, and they know that. It is not as straightforward as it is made to sound, but it would be wrong if me to not give you my support, as each case is different.