Ceramic coating or wax/top coat for black car

Linas.P · December 3, 2019

Hello All,

Just wanted to check what are the current trends for ceramic sealants?

Secondly, what would be recommended premium wax or ceramic top-coat for black paint.

Reason for asking - I will take delivery of the car soon and looking forward for fully detailing it.Therefore, after detailing kind of want to keep the car that way for as long as possible. I have previously used Gtechniq and CQuartz products, back in the days when ceramic was just coming-out. They were "ok" in a sense that straight after application they would bead like crazy, but they would last 6 month at best and water beeding would be reduced significantly after few months. Further, they were not as slick as some less durable waxes. I know that nowadays there are a lot of new products and we have base coats and top coats and so on.

So what would be the best combo for long lasting protection and "ultimate" slickness. Could be product combo or single product, say ~ up-to £130.

Any opinions woudl be much appreciated.

olliesgrandad · December 3, 2019

Try chemical guys blacklight.

Lasts for ages and beads wonderfully. Oh and very easy to apply.

Have used it for several years and people comment on how it beads.

After car is washed I spritz with their hybrid V07 gloss protector.

leelacey17 · December 4, 2019

Hello All,
Just wanted to check what are the current trends for ceramic sealants?
Secondly, what would be recommended premium wax or ceramic top-coat for black paint.
Reason for asking - I will take delivery of the car soon and looking forward for fully detailing it.Therefore, after detailing kind of want to keep the car that way for as long as possible. I have previously used Gtechniq and CQuartz products, back in the days when ceramic was just coming-out. They were "ok" in a sense that straight after application they would bead like crazy, but they would last 6 month at best and water beeding would be reduced significantly after few months. Further, they were not as slick as some less durable waxes. I know that nowadays there are a lot of new products and we have base coats and top coats and so on.
So what would be the best combo for long lasting protection and "ultimate" slickness. Could be product combo or single product, say ~ up-to £130.
Any opinions woudl be much appreciated.

There are so many options out there now for you to look at as the market has really come on leaps and bounds. Think the biggest issue you have right now is the weather and if you have a garage that you can work in, reason being most ceramics of any description need to be kept dry until cured.

Is it a new car or just new to you? What car is it?

I personally use Tac Systems Moonlight which would be classed as a light ceramic, but still has 25% si02 but is very easy to apply as it is oil based. It can be layered and would generally last 9-12 months. If I had garage space to apply I'd do 3 or 4 coats as it will really add to the thickness. I've found that unlike my Lexus which picked up stone chips my current car has hardly any and I'm putting that down to the ceramic.

Obviously prep is key and this time of the year you may struggle getting anything ceramic based on due to them needing to cure, otherwise you will end up with water spotting.

Gyeon Can Coat is another light ceramic and very easy to use but only 10% si02.

The car will need to be clayed and IPA wipe down before application of any coating to aid it bonding correctly. If you are doing it inside a garage I'd recommend something like Carpro Essence as a polish as it will add massive gloss and is a primer for ceramics.

Another option to maybe get you through winter would be Wowo's Crystal Sealant which is due to be released shortly as they have been relaunching the company.

This is probably the strongest spray sealant outside of a ceramic and is multi use so can be used as a wheel sealant and also good on glass as a repellent. Think they relaunch on the 9th and I'm definitely getting more of this its brilliant stuff. This would easily see you through until spring time when the weather improves but as it's so strong it would need to be polished off.

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Linas.P · December 4, 2019

Thank,

Car is new to me... otherwise 3 years and 56k miles. The garage is the problem for me as well as it is kind of communal shared garage and working on my car there is not very comfortable, but I have done it in the past so probably my neighbors are coming into terms with it already. Problem is that it is not heated and ceramic coatings takes forever to cure. I have used Tac Systems silica wax and it basically failed to cure even overnight (or it was not good...)

Yes you right, my plan is to fully decontaminate the car. So it will be be at very least going through several washes, clay and perhaps even some wet-sanding to level touch-up done by dealer. Then I will do at least 3 stage correction - I have whole range of Menzerna and Koch Chemie, so not looking into getting more polishing products. Probably will skip KC P3.01 and use sonax perfect finish as it has no fillers in it. Or would it be too fine for ceramic? I tend to find even KC M3.02 does well with finishing, not as good as sonax or P3.01, but it that is sufficient before applying ceramic coating it would just save me time going over the car again with final finishing pass.

In terms of actual products I am not necessary looking for 1 stage application or "lite" product, but there is a point to consider about curing as it could be a bit difficult in unheated garage. Therefore, I have actually considered Moonlight as easily curing product, just wanted to check if there any other "full ceramic" products which would be recommended.

I guess the other option I have is to do just quick maintenance detail now to last during the winter (with like Moonlight) and then do proper detail in like May when temperatures gets warm enough for proper ceramic coat. What would you recommend as proper long lasting ceramic base coat?

Linas.P · December 4, 2019

22 hours ago, olliesgrandad said:

Try chemical guys blacklight.

Lasts for ages and beads wonderfully. Oh and very easy to apply.

Have used it for several years and people comment on how it beads.

After car is washed I spritz with their hybrid V07 gloss protector.

Actually I haven't tried anything else from Chemical guys, except of polishing pads (hex and quantum) - might give a try for shampoo.

First_Lexus · December 5, 2019

I had a gTechniq Crystal Serum ceramic coating applied to my NX by a recommended professional shortly after delivery.

Having never had a coating before, but knowing my way around detailing (I used to show MINIs) I was curious. 18 months on and I've only had to top up the finish occasionally with Gyeon Wetcoat or C2v3. It really is impressive, albeit I'm careful with the dilution of the Bilt Hamber snowfoam which can be aggressive.

When it was done I was assured it would last 2 years and 3-4 years if maintained properly. It has certainly saved me a lot of time and the finish is still excellent.

leelacey17 · December 5, 2019

Thank,
Car is new to me... otherwise 3 years and 56k miles. The garage is the problem for me as well as it is kind of communal shared garage and working on my car there is not very comfortable, but I have done it in the past so probably my neighbors are coming into terms with it already. Problem is that it is not heated and ceramic coatings takes forever to cure. I have used Tac Systems silica wax and it basically failed to cure even overnight (or it was not good...)
Yes you right, my plan is to fully decontaminate the car. So it will be be at very least going through several washes, clay and perhaps even some wet-sanding to level touch-up done by dealer. Then I will do at least 3 stage correction - I have whole range of Menzerna and Koch Chemie, so not looking into getting more polishing products. Probably will skip KC P3.01 and use sonax perfect finish as it has no fillers in it. Or would it be too fine for ceramic? I tend to find even KC M3.02 does well with finishing, not as good as sonax or P3.01, but it that is sufficient before applying ceramic coating it would just save me time going over the car again with final finishing pass.
In terms of actual products I am not necessary looking for 1 stage application or "lite" product, but there is a point to consider about curing as it could be a bit difficult in unheated garage. Therefore, I have actually considered Moonlight as easily curing product, just wanted to check if there any other "full ceramic" products which would be recommended.
I guess the other option I have is to do just quick maintenance detail now to last during the winter (with like Moonlight) and then do proper detail in like May when temperatures gets warm enough for proper ceramic coat. What would you recommend as proper long lasting ceramic base coat?

Moonlight still needs a 6 hour cure time and cant get wet so its difficult this time of year. Personally I'd do a maintenance wash with a clay etc and use a very good sealant like the one I suggested or if you can keep it dry then a couple of layers of moonlight.

Your options with ceramics are huge but I'd stick with ones from tac or gyeon as they are the market leaders. What used to be only available to professional detailers are now available to us and have become much more user friendly to use. Most ceramics tend to like toppers and moonlight can be used as one as well

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Lwerewolf · December 5, 2019

Water beading does not mean protection. I'd be more concerned with swirl protection - both from the coating or whatever, and the wash method. I'm pretty sold on ONR but I have a silver metallic car so I don't think I can give you any proper opinion on that 😄

I'd check the car upon delivery - if it needs polishing, either do everything at once, or wait until the weather allows a full decon/polish (well, the polish does decon 😄 ) and then coat it with whatever you'd like. In the meantime, your choice of "heavy duty" sealant + a spray of Sonax BSD or whatever after every winter wash 🙂

Linas.P · December 7, 2019

I guess colour was more important in case if I would wax to top-up. My experience with older gen of consumer grade ceramics is that you can still get better water beading from natural waxes, so I am looking more for protection from ceramics and less of slickness/beading.

I was under impression that market has moved nowadays and it is possible to do both with single ceramic application (I just don't know what that is - hence the thread).

In short if there is a perfect product which can both protect and provide good self-cleaning/water beading properties - I would like to know what that is.
If there are no such single product, then I would be looking at ceramic basecoat for protection and then whatever comes on top for self-cleaning/water beading.

As for decontaminating before polishing - I always do that. Otherwise (depending how much contamination there are) you maybe be just swirling the point for sometime with the same contamination before actually getting to any results + will require cleaning the pads more than necessary. So decontaminating just saves time in long run and allows to achieve better results quicker + less consumables like pads and polishing compounds.

Problem I have now - I kind of decided to go "quick polish + Moonlight" route until spring, but I cannot find moonlight for sale - out of stock everywhere or £50.

leelacey17 · December 7, 2019

I guess colour was more important in case if I would wax to top-up. My experience with older gen of consumer grade ceramics is that you can still get better water beading from natural waxes, so I am looking more for protection from ceramics and less of slickness/beading.
I was under impression that market has moved nowadays and it is possible to do both with single ceramic application (I just don't know what that is - hence the thread).

In short if there is a perfect product which can both protect and provide good self-cleaning/water beading properties - I would like to know what that is.

If there are no such single product, then I would be looking at ceramic basecoat for protection and then whatever comes on top for self-cleaning/water beading.
As for decontaminating before polishing - I always do that. Otherwise (depending how much contamination there are) you maybe be just swirling the point for sometime with the same contamination before actually getting to any results + will require cleaning the pads more than necessary. So decontaminating just saves time in long run and allows to achieve better results quicker + less consumables like pads and polishing compounds.
Problem I have now - I kind of decided to go "quick polish + Moonlight" route until spring, but I cannot find moonlight for sale - out of stock everywhere or £50.

In2detailing are stockest of moonlight. Normally very good service.

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leelacey17 · December 7, 2019

I guess colour was more important in case if I would wax to top-up. My experience with older gen of consumer grade ceramics is that you can still get better water beading from natural waxes, so I am looking more for protection from ceramics and less of slickness/beading.
I was under impression that market has moved nowadays and it is possible to do both with single ceramic application (I just don't know what that is - hence the thread).

In short if there is a perfect product which can both protect and provide good self-cleaning/water beading properties - I would like to know what that is.

If there are no such single product, then I would be looking at ceramic basecoat for protection and then whatever comes on top for self-cleaning/water beading.
As for decontaminating before polishing - I always do that. Otherwise (depending how much contamination there are) you maybe be just swirling the point for sometime with the same contamination before actually getting to any results + will require cleaning the pads more than necessary. So decontaminating just saves time in long run and allows to achieve better results quicker + less consumables like pads and polishing compounds.
Problem I have now - I kind of decided to go "quick polish + Moonlight" route until spring, but I cannot find moonlight for sale - out of stock everywhere or £50.

I would call in2detailing up and ask about ceramics as the list is endless. Imran is the guy who runs it and is very knowledgeable and very helpful. I can list lots different ceramic coatings but he will know far more than me.

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Linas.P · December 8, 2019

funny enough video just came out testing these products:

leelacey17 · December 9, 2019

funny enough video just came out testing these products:

Good timing. Made up your mind as to what you will go for?

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Linas.P · December 9, 2019

I will go for Moonlight to get me through the winter and will probably go for CQ.UK in spring as a base coat and maybe mix it with Gyeon Skin as top coat. Finally, I could still use Moonlight as a maintenance top-up.

So that is my plan in nutshell... unless some new products will come out and disturb what is currently available.

SH20 · April 23, 2020

Although I have just used GTechniq Crystal Serum Light and use GTechniq C2v3 as a top up on solid black paint (Lexus ES300h) the most important tool in the box for me is a really good LED Inspection light used immediately before any final application is completed. You will never see ultra fine scratches after full preparation and correction no matter what branded products you use without an inspection lamp. I know nobody comes up to your car with an inspection light to forensically examine the paint and all cars detailed really well will look great especially at dusk when the sun is about to go down but applying very expensive wax or a ceramic coating and knowing you left some defects behind before you locked them in would drive me nuts. As one YouTube detailer once said , there is no such thing as a 100% paint correction and you should never ever try to pursue one as the only thing that will happen is that you will chase and chase yourself around the car till you eventually burn through. Always aim for perfection but be realistic.

If you had seen my brand new black car back in August 2019 after the Lexus dealer "prepared my car" prior to collection you would have beaten those people about the head with a bat. I will allow the dealer to fit the number plates only next time after the PDI. I will take it away and remove all the white protective film etc myself.