A long story and some questions ...

lookcho · December 1, 2019

This will be a long story, so please don't read it all if you don't want to waste your time 🙂 but if you can - answer the question!

I've had some cars throughout the years, but then in 2004 I stopped at Honda - I still love their engines, suspension and reliability based on simplicity .. but this is a story for another time.
Then about 5 years ago I had to come to the UK and bought a Mazda 323 for 300 - sold it for 180 ... 7 months later, but it did the job. Then I got a BMW E46 323 for another 700 (what a piece of ...); sold that a year later for 350 - did the job as well, though it costed me much more to keep it driveable.
At that point it was time for me to buy a better car and considering that I have to commute from Durham to Sheffield and Cambridge, I wanted something that is relaxing, safe and I can put my family in without fearing for their lives all the time. So I started looking for the car with ACC and enough power to make it easy. I ended up with a 2005/6 GS 430 with basically everything that can be imagined, including that automatic stop that actually saved my ***** twice when I was gonna be late for the break. A silver tank with creamy leather seats and a V8 with enough power for the daily chores 🙂 It was an insanely good bargain back then, because I also got if from its first owner, who was pedantic about maintenance to an acceptable level and excluding the rust and some small chips here and there the car was had no single flaw (ugh and the lumbar support of the driver seat).
Initially the whole thing was scary. I mean can I afford this? The fuel consumption was a bit higher than I was used to, the insurance was almost 1K, the tax was higher, the tires were bigger, the parts and consumables - may be expensive ... you probably know what I am speaking about.

After 3+ years with this Lexus I can say two things: This is the best car that I have ever had, and also this is the cheapest one to maintain! Don't get me wrong - I wanted it perfect so, best tires possible got changed twice during this 3 years; Timing belt, oil pump, water pump, alternator, Battery, radiator, spark plugs, exhaust, all brake disks and pads replaced with best non-sport I could find; polished the headlights and replaced their bulbs; and probably a dozen other things, that I did because I have the tools, need to release pressure and wanted to keep the beast in perfect shape ...

... And then two days ago a neighbor lady decided to crash into my car in the middle of the night and the insurance company will write it off ... So for Christmas I am completely screwed - my car is gone and I will be paid peanuts for something very valuable. There's no chance I can find anything similar for the money they will pay me.

Now I need to find a replacement and after a good investigation on what's on the market, I am lost. I want something that is not worse then the GS430 as consumption, ride, space - actually I'd need a bit more boot as the kids are now 2 and it will be beneficial. That however means the hybrids are not an option. It also must have ACC and I can not go down from V8 again - that's an addiction.

So here comes the question: It seems like my only solution is to go bigger with LS460 again fully packed. However, I have heard some rumors that the gearbox is its weakest link and (considering that this was the biggest problem of the GS) am worried about the rust on the chassis. What should I be careful with, and look for, except whether all the features are working, when I go to buy LS460? I can see it appearing from 5 to 13K (the older generation), where is the reasonable middle ground? Is there a model that I am missing and is a really good bargain?

Vlady · December 1, 2019

Quote

Iliya sorry to hear about your car, last June my neighbour car also rolled in into mine but the damage was not as bad as your and his insurance fixed my car but the fact is still there - very unpleasant feeling!

I really do hope you will find what you are looking for, good luck and keep us updated on your search.

And sorry I cant advice on LS as never had one!

Vlad

Vintagesixtysix · December 1, 2019

This is such a shame and I think many people on here (including myself) would be in the same boat where our cars are worth more to us than a right off value.

Is it structurally damaged?

Or just the fact that market value is now so low vrs repair?

What right off code is the insurance quoting?

Would it be viable to buy back / do a deal with insurance company and organise the repair yourself?

The stuff repairers can do nowadays is pretty remarkable....... and the parts are out there if you went used for some parts to keep the cost down.

Just a thought..

I’ll leave the LS question for those guys...... they’re the experts.

007M · December 1, 2019

Sorry to hear.

Ok as above, an option is get a price on buy back and see whether it's good value for u to seek the repair from a local garage or even strip the car for parts to sell.

lookcho · December 1, 2019

2 hours ago, Vintagesixtysix said:

This is such a shame and I think many people on here (including myself) would be in the same boat where our cars are worth more to us than a right off value.

Is it structurally damaged?

Or just the fact that market value is now so low vrs repair?

What right off code is the insurance quoting?

Would it be viable to buy back / do a deal with insurance company and organise the repair yourself?

The stuff repairers can do nowadays is pretty remarkable....... and the parts are out there if you went used for some parts to keep the cost down.

Just a thought..

I’ll leave the LS question for those guys...... they’re the experts.

There is structural damage although not too much and if curious I can show you some more detailed images ... it is repairable but will cost more than they will want to pay for it.

I have not yet received the quote and I will certainly not agree with it, whatever it is lol

Will investigate the buy back option in a bit more detail, thanks.

Vintagesixtysix · December 1, 2019

If you have already taken some photos then could be interesting for comments on how significant insurer thinks it is.

Dont go crawling around underneath if not.

If you do decide to get another quote for repair make sure they know it’s out of your pocket and not the insurers.

You may find there’s a reasonable ....possibly affordable difference 😉

And if possible get it looked at ASAP as the body shops will be racked and stacked if we have any significant icy weather.

lookcho · December 1, 2019

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Am4jSCPJNNzVHnD7

for the curious people 🙂 at first glance it looks like a bumper and it probably would have been if she hit straight ...

Vlady · December 2, 2019

Iliya, if I mas ask, how did that happen? What is your neighbours explanation?

lookcho · December 2, 2019

the car slipped 🙂

lookcho · December 2, 2019

Ok, as expected the insurance guys tried to trick me on step 1 - they declared the car to be sent for scrap and called me in 5:51 to tell me that I have 9 minutes to confirm it, but they can do nothing about it anymore ... the call then went south, so I will get it tomorrow ...

That brings the next question - where can I buy the panels? any chance to get them new from somewhere?

I am right now poking eBay for the second hand parts that are needed and will check with the local garages tomorrow whether it is reasonable to fix it and to what extent - worst case I strip it bare and make a trackday car from it (inefficient, but will be fun)

Bluesman · December 3, 2019

What a damn cheek these insurance companies have. Its your property to decide what to do with not them. They will register it as a Cat d car but then if your keeping the car for some time its not going to bother you. Good luck with it.

noby76 · December 3, 2019

sorry to hear.. sounds like she was doing some speed to cause this type of impact.. i have gone down from a MK2 GS430 with same engine as yours to a GS300 V6 and can asure you the difference in power delivery its not much between the two. the V6 is just as smooth as the V8, it sounds sporty on full throttle and mpg is better due to being direct injected.. I personally wont put my life dependant on ACC so prefer to use my foot brake when i get closer to a moving car than let the technology make that decision for me.. but that's me...

lookcho · December 3, 2019

16 hours ago, Bluesman said:

What a damn cheek these insurance companies have. Its your property to decide what to do with not them. They will register it as a Cat d car but then if your keeping the car for some time its not going to bother you. Good luck with it.

well, it is here, so I am investigating the options to restore it ... we will see - worst case I will sell it a parts seller.

5 hours ago, noby76 said:

personally wont put my life dependant on ACC so prefer to use my foot brake when i get closer to a moving car than let the technology make that decision for me.. but that's me...

I will never fully trust it, but that is not the point - the idea is to not have the constantly adjust to the variations of speak that the traffic is having and that reduces the annoyance. It is something like an usable CC. However, the automatic breaks, that stop the car at no more than 0.3G in case of an imminent collision, have saved my ***** at least twice, just because they react faster than you can.

The LS 460 question still stands 🙂 what should I be worried about?

lookcho · December 6, 2019

Hi again guys, I am looking at one LS460 on the market and I have a question:

What does a rattle in the front left side mean when accelerating uphill?

(also: should I put this question in the LS section?)

Malc · December 6, 2019

46 minutes ago, lookcho said:

should I put this question in the LS section?)

yes i think so, you will get Ls guys answers for sure

there's some quite recent thoughts about the Ls460 too

Malc

The-Acre · December 6, 2019

If it was me I would take the advice and not rely on ACC, and I would seriously look at the two Celsiors currently on eBay. One has been for sale for well over a year so bargaining room, the other (white one) has conventional suspension. Both have the same engine as your GS and very low mileage, plus a rust free underbelly!

lookcho · December 7, 2019

5 hours ago, The-Acre said:

If it was me I would take the advice and not rely on ACC

I won't even try to convince you 🙂 However, for me that is a MUST HAVE!

noby76 · December 9, 2019

i'm all for any in car technology that helps save lives... the question is how were we driving cars safely on the roads before the invention of Active Cruise Control in cars? although these technologies are are all well and good i personally feel like the somewhat remove some driver intuition senses which may be there if these driving aids was not present in the car.

ACC could malfunction at any time and fail to sense a car ahead, and thus not preventing a collision but the human eye focusing ahead when driving will never fail to spot or sense a collision about to happen. how close one was behind the car ahead, how fast one was travelling and ones reaction time could come into question. but the human eye focusing ahead when driving will never malfunction. it will always detect a possible collision even at a longer range before ACC detects this.

regarding the LS460, no car should rattle when travelling up hill. best to go inspect and test drive it and you can be the judge...

lookcho · December 9, 2019

58 minutes ago, noby76 said:

i'm all for any in car technology that helps save lives... the question is how were we driving cars safely on the roads before the invention of Active Cruise Control in cars? although these technologies are are all well and good i personally feel like the somewhat remove some driver intuition senses which may be there if these driving aids was not present in the car.

ACC could malfunction at any time and fail to sense a car ahead, and thus not preventing a collision but the human eye focusing ahead when driving will never fail to spot or sense a collision about to happen. how close one was behind the car ahead, how fast one was travelling and ones reaction time could come into question. but the human eye focusing ahead when driving will never malfunction. it will always detect a possible collision even at a longer range before ACC detects this.

You are invoking the troll in me! 🙂

Noby, how were we driving before the power steering, the abs, the traction, the stability control, the cruise control, the breaking assist, the active suspension, etc.... They all remove the driver intuition (all of my trackday cars, and my first 3 street cars, have been and will be with none of those), yet I can promise you that without half of those you will be quite unhappy. ACC is no different - let me explain, because you obviously have not had one of those ...

When you are driving on the motorway you have 3 options:

1. pedals, in which case your concentration goes to that and your right foot is on the throttle. Unless you drive with both legs, which I highly doubt, in case of an emergency you need about half a second at best to react and position your foot on the break pedal, and then because your foot is not there and you are rushing for it, you usually overdo it and that on its own, with a high probability can result in the rear car ramming you, not to say what happens if you are actually not on a straight at that point.

2. you drive with CC, in which case your foot is on (or near) the break most of the time, but your concentration is divided between the pedals, the wheel and the buttons - to match the speed the car in front (that is one control more than needed and especially with the behavior of the trucks here, leads to unhealthy annoyance on a long trip). Then when that car in front accelerates faster than you can click buttons, your annoyance moves your foot off the break pedal to press the throttle ... this is when bad things happen.

3. you are driving with ACC, which keeps its distance from the car in front much better than you and compensates for speed changes reasonably. In the mean time your foot is on the break and you can react much faster and more adequately than in the other two cases. You are not distracted by speed fluctuations and can concentrate on the important things.

Then come the next two features:

Is your concentration really better than that of the electronics, after driving the most annoying road possible for 5 hours? No it isn't, electronics will always be more reliable than human for simple tasks. I know about at least two people that have died or killed someone else because they fell asleep (even if just for a second) behind the wheel - one crashed in the car in front, with a bit too much speed difference and killed his passenger, the other just hit a truck and was smashed by the one behind ...

More importantly, the ACC in Lexus of that generation comes with collision avoidance breaking system, which although doing only up to 0.3G of breaking, can still reduce your speed enough in the right moment and give you time to press the breaks - been there, done that. Keep in mind, that on a motorway, you are traveling your breaking distance before you hit the breaks.

I am not speaking about trusting the ACC here, exactly the opposite - trust nothing in a car, but use the max available.

noby76 · December 9, 2019

i think if you read my comments again i did mentioned i'm all for safety driver aids in a car. and i'm in no was dis regarding ACC and its safety capabilities... i personally put my trust in my eyes to do the road condition monitoring and my right foot to do the stopping before i put it in the hands of ACC... but this is not taking anything away from it being a safety driving aid feature..

noby76 · December 9, 2019

I guess in more cases than not, the Human eye and right foot will make a better call..

https://www.lexusofatlanticcity.com/precautions-dynamic-radar-cruise-control/

PRECAUTIONS: DYNAMIC RADAR CRUISE CONTROL

May 26th, 2018 by Lexus of Atlantic City

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PRECAUTIONS: DYNAMIC RADAR CRUISE CONTROL

Dynamic Radar Cruise Control(9) is a system primarily for driving on expressways and highways. With regard to traffic conditions on general roads, there are cases where it will not operate appropriately and could lead to an accident. In these situations, do not use Dynamic Radar Cruise Control. Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (9) operation is dependent on the millimeter-wave radar’s ability to detect a preceding vehicle, as well as the detectability of the preceding vehicle itself. While driving, the driver will need to continually pay attention to the distance between vehicles with the leading vehicle and surroundings, and decelerate and accelerate themselves to ensure the distance between their vehicle and preceding or following vehicles is safe. Situations such as a broken, dirty, ice, rain, snow, film, or sticker-covered front Lexus emblem blocking the radar, all may affect Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (9) operation.

IN THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, DYNAMIC RADAR CRUISE CONTROL (9) MAY LEAD TO AN UNEXPECTED ACCIDENT, SO DO NOT USE THE SYSTEM:

1. Bad weather conditions, such as rain, fog, snow or a dust storm

• When the system judges the weather to be bad, there are cases where it automatically turns OFF

2. Raindrops, snow, ice, road debris, or film/metal coatings on the millimeter-wave radar sensor (badge or cover)

• If the system detects filth, it may automatically turn OFF

Other:

• Roads with a lot of traffic or around a sharp curve
• Slippery road surfaces, such as icy or snowy roads
• Steep Inclines
• Traffic conditions leading to frequent acceleration and deceleration
• When leaving lane while on an expressway, etc.
• When the vehicle is being towed

IN THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, THE SYSTEM IS NOT ABLE TO ACCURATELY DETECT LEADING VEHICLES AND MAY NOT BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN APPROPRIATE DISTANCE BETWEEN VEHICLES:

1. When the leading vehicle is pulling an empty trailer, etc., making rear surface area very small (including motorcycles)
2. When vehicle angle or stance changes dramatically due to load, changes to suspension, tire pressure, etc.

IN THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, DETECTION OF THE LEADING VEHICLE MAY BE DELAYED OR MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE:

• When a leading vehicle cuts in front of your vehicle at a close distance
• Motorcycle driving at the edge of the lane

IN THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, THE SYSTEM MAY INADVERTENTLY OPERATE OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DETECT THE LEADING VEHICLE:

1. In a curve or when the lane width is narrow; if a vehicle from another lane is recognized as that of your lane
2. When the leading vehicle is driving at the edge of the lane and is not in the detection area

Other:

• When the leading vehicle leaves the sensor detection area, such as at a curve
• When the leading vehicle leaves the sensor detection area due to steering input

THE SYSTEM WILL NOT OPERATE IN THE FOLLOWING CONDITION:

• If the opposing object is a stopped vehicle or a leading vehicle with a speed dramatically slow compared to your own vehicle

This section is abbreviated and does not include all precautions or limitations.
Refer to a Lexus Owner’s Manual for a more comprehensive description of system operation, precautions and limitations.

Britprius · December 9, 2019

On 12/3/2019 at 12:23 AM, Bluesman said:

What a damn cheek these insurance companies have. Its your property to decide what to do with not them. They will register it as a Cat d car but then if your keeping the car for some time its not going to bother you. Good luck with it.

I am going through this process at the moment also. As yet I do not know if my car will be written off, but I feel it is very likely, and my car will get a Cat N rating.
Insurance damage categories have changed. Cat C and D have gone, and we now have Cat S and N.
Cat S is for structurally damage, but repairable, and Cat N is for no structural damage, and repairable

John

lookcho · January 10, 2020

noby76, you can read the same thing for the other systems 🙂 The ABS section of the manual explicitly says "You should not trust it or depend on it, as it will not work on mud, snow, ice..." (will make you a photo at some point)

Although I would love to continue this discussion, private may be better place as I already bought an LS460 with all bells and whistles.

The only question is what to do with the GS.

From the first 1K miles I can say that the car is amazing and even more boring than the GS .. and much faster .. and those systems are better ... The lane control is definitely worse than that of the brand new Volvo S90 that I had from the insurance company, but otherwise this car is soooo much better and scarier!

Anyway, thanks everyone!

Oh btw. The insurance company will pay me 2800 of which they will take 320 for the buyback of the GS430!