Future for Petrol/Diesel/ Hybrid cars

[noby76]

as it stands, Petrol and petrol Hybrid still dominates in the British new car market sales.. below are figures.. as you can see, petrol cars still take up a 66% market share of all new cars registered in UK for 2019 and Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicles (MHEV) had a % change of over 500% when compared to its 2018 figures.. this proves  people are still not sold on 100% electric cars yet as figures stands.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/britain-uk/2019-half-year-britain-best-selling-car-brands-and-models/

[Malc]

someone's just raised a separate thread

Driving through a Flood

and catastrophic results for him with his hybrid 

Malc

[noby76]

8 minutes ago, Malc said:

someone's just raised a separate thread

Driving through a Flood

and catastrophic results for him with his hybrid 

Malc

i can understand why Internal Combustion Engine technology have lasted so long.. even F1 drivers are not sold on thier 1.6 litre hybrid electric engines they prefer the high revving non hybrid V6, V8 and V10's raw engines

[malcolmw]

Despite having had Lexus hybrids for our everyday car for years now, I bought the V8 LC500 (after test driving the hybrid version) to replace my Aston DB9. Why? well, you just can't beat the noise and feel of a big N/A engine. Like the F1 guys mentioned, all electric might be fast but is not exciting. I am an old traditionalist though!  

[m4rkw]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:26 AM, Barry14UK said:

However, would you be deterred from buying a new car in the next three or so years time realizing it may suffer very heavy depreciation when you change?  There is also the strong possibility that owners of IC cars will be further penalized by Government.  Remaining manufacturers could find it uneconomical to continue to produce IC cars as demand drops off.   

Anybody had any thoughts on this subject?

New cars already depreciate heavily. I wouldn't buy one for this reason alone, and as well as this new cars are also packed full of expensive technology. Any of those computers failing is a huge repair bill. If I were to ever buy a new car it would be as close to the base model as possible, fewer things to break and cost me money. But in all likelyhood I will stick with older cars built around 2006 before everything started getting crazy.

[m4rkw]

On 12/4/2019 at 4:51 PM, Malc said:

someone's just raised a separate thread

Driving through a Flood

and catastrophic results for him with his hybrid 

Malc

If you read that thread in full the consensus is that driving through water had nothing to do with the engine failure.

[Malc]

56 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

that thread in full

yes i quite agree, a lots happened with that thread since i posted on 4th December, some 2 weeks ago ...............  hindsight is brilliant 

Malc

[m4rkw]

My bad! Should have looked at the dates 🙂

[Shepherd]

I cannot see the UK up its infrastructure that rapidly to support fast charging that will be required if all cities started banning ICE cars. And we can forget about the fast charging coming to home within next 10 years or so as the infrastructure change requirement is even bigger (I am told). 

I think Toyota/Honda are onto something with the Hydrogen FC technology and just waiting for the current experiment to fail completely before they start to licence this technology to other car manufacturers. By the way, the new Mirai for 2020 looks decent.

[dutchie01]

Things have spiralled into a true Christmas bonanza for Tesla in The Netherlands.. Fiscal stimulation will change as from jan 01 and taxing wil go from 4 to 8% on EVs ( ICE 22%).

this has created a sales explosion never seen before and everybody of course needs to have their car registered and delivered before 31/12. So far Tesla delivered 18000 cars this year and until years end 12000 model 3s need to follow. 

This is done in a military style operation. Per ship 3750 cars. Boat arrives from the states on monday is unloaded and cars stay on quay where they are cleaned and polished. All this on the monday. Next day owners turn up report in portacabin are handed papers, keys and licence plate and drive off. Cars are not even fully charged. This takes 2 days. Thursday next boat arrives and it repeats itself. No dealers nor showroom, no middle man, no service and still everybody happy.......

of course all this is caused by fiscal stimulation, if cars are very cheap people will come in droves. However if EVs were not liked due to allsorts of reasons the situation would be different i guess. I personally liked humming along on batterypower in my IS and i can only hope the next IS will also be offered in full EV. 

Toyota seems late to the party but especially Lexus seems suited for electrification. NVH, image it all seems to fit. Here is hoping...

 

[Malc]

silence is not always golden with EV and the electric bit of hybrid

last year on a cruise visiting Bremen I witnessed hearing some ducks being crushed to death by a German electric soundless car in the city centre 😐

[Barry14UK]

It's not only ducks, many people don't hear or become aware of noiseless vehicles, often because they are preoccupied by their phones, (experienced it first hand), are hard of hearing or for various other reasons.  There was some talk about making it a requirement that all 'silent' vehicles should emit some form of sound as a warning to reduce risk to others.  I don't know how much progress has been made on this because it would clearly require wide agreement.  However, I don't see this stopping the advance of vehicles without a conventional combustion engine.  The aforementioned apart, going to a race meeting would lose a lot of it's impact to watch noiseless vehicles racing round a track and what about all the chainsaws and agricultural  equipment powered by petrol/diesel of a size currently powered by petrol/diesel but these are other issues for consideration.

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

It's not only ducks, many people don't hear or become aware of noiseless vehicles, often because they are preoccupied by their phones, (experienced it first hand), are hard of hearing or for various other reasons.  There was some talk about making it a requirement that all 'silent' vehicles should emit some form of sound as a warning to reduce risk to others.  I don't know how much progress has been made on this because it would clearly require wide agreement.  However, I don't see this stopping the advance of vehicles without a conventional combustion engine.  The aforementioned apart, going to a race meeting would lose a lot of it's impact to watch noiseless vehicles racing round a track and what about all the chainsaws and agricultural  equipment powered by petrol/diesel of a size currently powered by petrol/diesel but these are other issues for consideration.

The person in charge of the vehicle is its driver.

It is the driver whose responsibility it is, is to be aware of other road users, which includes pedestrians.

Apply some common sense and use your horn intelligently if necessary and allow for the fact that they are oblivious of you for whatever reason.

[dutchie01]

May i suggest two different horns, one for normal road use and another one for dreaming pedestrians or children not aware of the silent and approaching car?

This second horn should of course be more silent as it should only be heard from a short distance.

In order to save our feathered friends maybe it would be best if the sound of a duck in despair would appear after pushing the button?

[Mincey]

On 12/4/2019 at 3:57 PM, malcolmw said:

Despite having had Lexus hybrids for our everyday car for years now, I bought the V8 LC500 (after test driving the hybrid version) to replace my Aston DB9. Why? well, you just can't beat the noise and feel of a big N/A engine. Like the F1 guys mentioned, all electric might be fast but is not exciting. I am an old traditionalist though!  

Flat right foot in an IS300h is nothing compared to flat right foot in an IS250. I miss that roar....

[Barry14UK]

7 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

The person in charge of the vehicle is its driver.

It is the driver whose responsibility it is, is to be aware of other road users, which includes pedestrians.

Apply some common sense and use your horn intelligently if necessary and allow for the fact that they are oblivious of you for whatever reason.

The import of the first sentence is obvious and the second correct.  As regards the third, some people step into the road without giving any indication they might do so.  (They do this even with cars that can be heard, so more likely to do this with cars they don't hear coming). You surely wouldn't want to drive everywhere on the horn as they do in some countries!  In any event,  unless you are driving at walking pace in town, if anybody steps out immediately  in front of you you will hit them.  (I have done speed/reaction/stopping/distance tests with Police and have  nearly 60 years driving experience with cars, motor cycles and bicycles).  There are times and places in London where due to congestion progression at near walking pace is the norm but imagine doing this continually with nothing in front of you in case a pedestrian stepped stepped out, the honking would be from the build up of traffic behind you with the possibility of dangerous overtaking through frustration.  Also, there are plenty of drivers out there in the real world whose reactions are not as sharp as the best.   If it was as simple as you say, the fitting of audible warning to compensate for lack of engine noise would not be under consideration would it? 

[Barry14UK]

13 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

May i suggest two different horns, one for normal road use and another one for dreaming pedestrians or children not aware of the silent and approaching car?

This second horn should of course be more silent as it should only be heard from a short distance.

In order to save our feathered friends maybe it would be best if the sound of a duck in despair would appear after pushing the button?

There was a time when some cars had what was termed Town and Country horns.  These came as standard on several Fiat 130's I had in the nineteen seventies.  They comprised the normal type of horn and twin air horns powered by a compressor with a flip over switch for changing from one to the other.  You could also buy air horns from  accessory factors,  some even having several trumpets that played part of a tune when activated, the first few notes of Colonel Bogey was one I recall but I think these may have been banned and the Twin air horns dropped out of fashion.  However. as intimated in my previous post, I don't think horns (of whatever type) are the answer , 

[twolexii]

On 11/30/2019 at 7:58 PM, Malc said:

or maybe I should just keep my gas guzzling ( 30mpg on a good day )  4ltr limo and never sell it ......  oh yes, that means I'm not building a brand new car and all the toxicity that involves ....  and not polluting the environment with scrappage of my dear old gal 

Malc

Totally agree.

My wife loves her 2013 3L Diesel auto Touareg and won't hear of it being replaced. At only 67k it's depreciated £33k in the 7 years we've owned it and as it's just run-in, why sell it? Particularly as it now only does 6k a year at an average of 32mpg. It's not ULEZ compliant in London but is never used there, public transport off-peak is far more pleasant. Her criteria for an EV is a Touareg with 500 miles real-world range, for recharge overnight at home in Sussex. I don't see that being available until the late '20s. 

My view: I wanted to create a convenient, personal, car club: the '03 SC430, '07 LS600h L RSR and '08 GS450h more than meet that goal and are valued at less than a new, drivethedeal-discounted, base-model 1.5 petrol TSI Golf, being far more interesting to this hobbyist. And they're all 3 London ULEZ-compliant.         

[royoftherovers]

7 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

The import of the first sentence is obvious and the second correct.  As regards the third, some people step into the road without giving any indication they might do so.  (They do this even with cars that can be heard, so more likely to do this with cars they don't hear coming). You surely wouldn't want to drive everywhere on the horn as they do in some countries!  In any event,  unless you are driving at walking pace in town, if anybody steps out immediately  in front of you you will hit them.  (I have done speed/reaction/stopping/distance tests with Police and have  nearly 60 years driving experience with cars, motor cycles and bicycles).  There are times and places in London where due to congestion progression at near walking pace is the norm but imagine doing this continually with nothing in front of you in case a pedestrian stepped stepped out, the honking would be from the build up of traffic behind you with the possibility of dangerous overtaking through frustration.  Also, there are plenty of drivers out there in the real world whose reactions are not as sharp as the best.   If it was as simple as you say, the fitting of audible warning to compensate for lack of engine noise would not be under consideration would it? 

Thank you Barry.

If you read my last sentence again

"Apply some common sense and

use your horn intelligently if necessary and

allow for the fact that they are oblivious of you for whatever reason"

 

You will note that nowhere have I said or implied anything that warrants your final question. .

[Barry14UK]

15 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Thank you Barry.

If you read my last sentence again

"Apply some common sense and

use your horn intelligently if necessary and

allow for the fact that they are oblivious of you for whatever reason"

 

You will note that nowhere have I said or implied anything that warrants your final question. .

John,

Sensible use of a horn is something most of us try do I am sure, as well as anticipate potential hazards.  Also, there are times when it is illegal to use a horn as you will be aware. Furthermore, drivers of hybrid vehicles will know that at times they proceed in a silent way and will be inaudible to pedestrians and to road users.

So with respect, your suggestions do not adequately address the vulnerability of oblivious pedestrians and how they can be made more aware.  This is seen as a problem sometimes beyond the control of drivers, so the obvious answer is some sort of sound being emitted by silent vehicles, although you make no mention of this.  In fact there are already requirements for lorries backing up to have bleepers and they are also used on fork lift trucks for example. 

 In view of this, I think it was perfectly reasonable and pertinent to add the final sentence to my previous post to which you seem to have taken exception.

Now found this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48815968