RX450h brake fluid replacement or not at major service

[Passerby]

Hi

I have just received my 2010 450h back after a Lexus major service as part of their essential care schedule. The schedule which can be downloaded from the Lexus UK site for a 450h specifies brake fluid replacement (every two years) which coicides for most owners with the major service interval. The paper-work from the dealer just specifies "check brake fluid and replace as required" at the major service. A nice saving on mechanics time and fluids by Lexus - is this a local franchise tweak to make a bit of extra cash or is this a widespread change ?

I do appreciate that a basic test will indicate the amount of water in the brake fluid in the reservoir, just wish they would be up front on their web site if they are going to change the spec of a service

[jumbojake]

brake fluid must be changed every two years, so that would line up with a major service... I had the same from a dealer, I found over £400 later they hadn't changed it (still dark fluid, and undisturbed dust on the reservoir cap) ... I called them up on it, but was just shouted at down the phone by a very angry mechanic... won't be going back there again!

The fluid absorbs moisture, you can see the fluid is old, as new fluid is clear, gets darker with age.. on a hybrid you really need to look after the brakes... they don;t get used as heavily as with normal cars, so need to know they work when you really need them!

[Barry14UK]

2 hours ago, Passerby said:

Hi

I have just received my 2010 450h back after a Lexus major service as part of their essential care schedule. The schedule which can be downloaded from the Lexus UK site for a 450h specifies brake fluid replacement (every two years) which coicides for most owners with the major service interval. The paper-work from the dealer just specifies "check brake fluid and replace as required" at the major service. A nice saving on mechanics time and fluids by Lexus - is this a local franchise tweak to make a bit of extra cash or is this a widespread change ?

I do appreciate that a basic test will indicate the amount of water in the brake fluid in the reservoir, just wish they would be up front on their web site if they are going to change the spec of a service

That wording is too vague as detailed by dealer because it could be construed as just topping up which is not saatisfactory. As my car will be 5 years old at the next service I was contemplating going on to 'essential  service' but before doing so will again ask specicically what will be done.  (As brake fluid change on my car  should have been done as part of normal service this year it won't need to be done until 2021).  I did ask at the service this year what difference there was between 'normal' and 'essential' service and was informed verbally that they were the same but that  Lexus don't want to lose  business so just use this terminology to reduce the service price. 

[royoftherovers]

9 hours ago, Passerby said:

Hi

I have just received my 2010 450h back after a Lexus major service as part of their essential care schedule. The schedule which can be downloaded from the Lexus UK site for a 450h specifies brake fluid replacement (every two years) which coicides for most owners with the major service interval. The paper-work from the dealer just specifies "check brake fluid and replace as required" at the major service. A nice saving on mechanics time and fluids by Lexus - is this a local franchise tweak to make a bit of extra cash or is this a widespread change ?

I do appreciate that a basic test will indicate the amount of water in the brake fluid in the reservoir, just wish they would be up front on their web site if they are going to change the spec of a service

Unless you are a Politician David, replace means replace.

I would send a formal complaint by email to Lexus GB Customer Services and copy it to the Lexus Dealer who does not know the meaning of replace.

[Britprius]

David you have effectively been charged for work that has not been done a definite no no under the trade descriptions act. I would return the car to the dealer, and insist on the fluid being changed pointing out this is mandatory for a full service as in the schedule by Lexus.   
On a hybrid it is a reasonably lengthy prepossess requiring the car to be attached to a computer with Techstreem software to operate various solenoids in the braking system to purge all the lines of old fluid, and taking near 4.5 ltrs of fluid.
This is no where near as simple as normal cars without regen braking.

John

[Passerby]

Thanks folks, I have contacted Lexus UK and the dealer and await their responses, will report back in due course. 

[Jeff Roscoe]

Today phoned local Lexus dealer for my rx 45oh 60000mile service and asked what was included in the £745 asking price.I have been told oil ,oil filter ,air filter,pollen filter,plugs brake fluid and diff oil will all be replaced.Also the hybrid health check.Bearing im mind car is now 6 years old and has only covered 23500 miles

[Barry14UK]

To my way of thinking there should be more flexibility here.  Whilst used fluid can degenerate with age as well as mileage, what is the point in replaceing s/plugs at 23500 miles when they will comfortably do 60,000?  Surely, this item at least could be left and an adjustment made for the very considerable time saved and the cost of the plugs?

[Britprius]

I had forgotten the hybrid health check. This is free with all services, intermediate, full, and major. The health check can also be bought as a separate item for around £60. This makes having only the inter mediate service good value.

£745 for a major service at first may sound reasonable, but I believe even that to be about £250 to much. It may sound penny pinching but I would ask for the old pollen, and air filters to be left in the car, as I doubt at that millage they require replacement. They probably at most need a quick blast with an air line, and at Lexus prices represent about £60 In parts. Also the plugs should not be changed on age, but rather on millage saving another £60 in parts, and what would possibly be an hour or mores labor.

John. 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Britprius said:

I had forgotten the hybrid health check. This is free with all services, intermediate, full, and major. The health check can also be bought as a separate item for around £60. This makes having only the inter mediate service good value.

£745 for a major service at first may sound reasonable, but I believe even that to be about £250 to much. It may sound penny pinching but I would ask for the old pollen, and air filters to be left in the car, as I doubt at that millage they require replacement. They probably at most need a quick blast with an air line, and at Lexus prices represent about £60 In parts. Also the plugs should not be changed on age, but rather on millage saving another £60 in parts, and what would possibly be an hour or mores labor.

John. 

 If you don`t ask, you don`t get !

[Friso]

23 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

To my way of thinking there should be more flexibility here.  Whilst used fluid can degenerate with age as well as mileage, what is the point in replaceing s/plugs at 23500 miles when they will comfortably do 60,000?  Surely, this item at least could be left and an adjustment made for the very considerable time saved and the cost of the plugs?

There is with the Essential Service, which wouldn't include the plug change if I remember correctly. 

[Barry14UK]

1 hour ago, Friso said:

There is with the Essential Service, which wouldn't include the plug change if I remember correctly. 

I am sure you are right about 'plugs' being an optional extra with essential service so worth using this for low mileage cars of 5+ years.  Howev,er it would appear Jeff was having a standard service at £745

[Passerby]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:46 PM, Barry14UK said:

I am sure you are right about 'plugs' being an optional extra with essential service so worth using this for low mileage cars of 5+ years.  Howev,er it would appear Jeff was having a standard service at £745

If you dig into the Lexus UK web site you find that the major services are priced differently depending on the mileage of the vehicle and presumably the work done.

As an update.. I am still in discussion regarding the original question.

[Barry14UK]

2 hours ago, Passerby said:

If you dig into the Lexus UK web site you find that the major services are priced differently depending on the mileage of the vehicle and presumably the work done.

As an update.. I am still in discussion regarding the original question.

I had my car serviced at Lexus Cheltenham in May, I got them to give me the price of their services both standard and essential for the different mileage increments plus of course any additional work found necessary.  Having said that, they did offer me inducements to go back to them for service of my car which I had bought from them. (In fairness to them I will not say what these were but I was not offered the receptionist with the coffee LOL)  Always worth checking  around.

Interested to learn what your discussions lead to

[Passerby]

five mins free at lunch so:

Publicly available data for the RX450h downloaded from the Lexus UK web site on the 15/11/19

Service Name	Mileage	Price
Intermediate	10k / 30k / 50k / 70k / 90k	£295
Full 20	20k	£495
Full 40	40k	£495
Full 60	60k	£745
Full 80	80k	£495
Full 100	100k	£645

[Herbie]

Good info but should be pointed out that those prices are individual services.

A service plan covering services for two years can be bought, which has its advantages.

I paid £1,170 for a 24 month plan which covers three services, 5, 6 and 7 year ones, or if you prefer, 50k, 60k and 70k miles, with 60k being 'the big one'.

The main advantage of course, is being able to pay by monthly interest-free installments rather than one big payment.

[Britprius]

47 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Good info but should be pointed out that those prices are individual services.

A service plan covering services for two years can be bought, which has its advantages.

I paid £1,170 for a 24 month plan which covers three services, 5, 6 and 7 year ones, or if you prefer, 50k, 60k and 70k miles, with 60k being 'the big one'.

The main advantage of course, is being able to pay by monthly interest-free installments rather than one big payment.

This is fine, but in the case of Jeff's car it will have cost him £2620 for services in only 23,000 miles. Quite ludicrous as this is the cost of the same car with 60,000 miles of use almost three times as much per mile. Lexus say services should be carried out sooner under rigorous conditions, but they make no allowance for vehicles with light use. Six oil, and filter changes in 23k miles is just wasteful as is changing the plugs that do not ware or degrade with none use. 

John.

[Herbie]

I agree John and was just pointing out that service plans are available as well as just paying per service.

As I see it there are only three options here:

1. Just grin and bear it as just part and parcel of owning a car
2. Have servicing done at an independent garage, which will be cheaper but still require the same work to be done at the same intervals
3. Use the car more so that he doesn't feel as aggrieved when he has to have a service done - I can never understand people paying so much money for a luxury car (or any car for that matter) and not using it

[Passerby]

Mileage is not a great indicator of wear these days: if I were comparing two cars of the same age, one with 20k of mostly round town mileage vs one with 65k of mostly motorway cruising then, all other things being equal I suspect I would go for the motorway cruiser

[Barry14UK]

4 hours ago, Passerby said:

Mileage is not a great indicator of wear these days: if I were comparing two cars of the same age, one with 20k of mostly round town mileage vs one with 65k of mostly motorway cruising then, all other things being equal I suspect I would go for the motorway cruiser

How would you know (other than assume) how a car has been used)?  It is mainly the number of cold starts that produce proportionally greater engine wear.  My daughter lives in a rather remote area and does a very high mileage taking her children to school and various other activities.  She was using her 7 seater SUV for this which car she needs when the whole family go out.  However, she has now bought a much smaller car to do the school run, which is more economical and easier to park.  So the SUV gets used much less but has mixed purpose use.

I only do a small mileage these days, about half of which is for long journeys but having had only premium 6 and 8 cylinder cars for the last 25 or so years, albeit secondhand ones, which I largely maintained myself, I intend to continue this indulgence which is less strain on my back.  

 

 

 

[Britprius]

Just being realistic here if you were offered a 5 year old car secondhand with a genuine 23500 miles on the clock with two dealer service stamps in the book, and an up to date MOT would you consider it to be a well serviced car. I know I would.
Would you give any more for the same car with six service stamps in the book?

John.

[Lager shandy]

I think for me two service stamps are ok as long as I they are done at the correct mileage .and the hybrid health checks have been done .but really as long as the car has had a thorough inspection one a year or 10k whichever comes first is what the car manufacture expects you to do .just remember it may only be 23k over 5 years but they could have been some old boy or woman down farm tracks dust and muck .but all cleaned and polished up for the forecourt. You really need to prize out of the dealer who owned this car and it's usage .hard I know with GDPR rules these days .

[Britprius]

1 hour ago, Lager shandy said:

I think for me two service stamps are ok as long as I they are done at the correct mileage .and the hybrid health checks have been done .but really as long as the car has had a thorough inspection one a year or 10k whichever comes first is what the car manufacture expects you to do .just remember it may only be 23k over 5 years but they could have been some old boy or woman down farm tracks dust and muck .but all cleaned and polished up for the forecourt. You really need to prize out of the dealer who owned this car and it's usage .hard I know with GDPR rules these days .

The hybrid health check is not done in the first five years because the vehicle is still under guarantee eight years on some Toyota vehicles, but can be done at any time for the first time up till 15 years, and is just as valid.

John.

[Lager shandy]

Ok a slight revision on my last post - you pays ya money and take a chance lol

[olliesgrandad]

On 11/15/2019 at 1:41 AM, Barry14UK said:

I had my car serviced at Lexus Cheltenham in May, I got them to give me the price of their services both standard and essential for the different mileage increments plus of course any additional work found necessary.  Having said that, they did offer me inducements to go back to them for service of my car which I had bought from them. (In fairness to them I will not say what these were but I was not offered the receptionist with the coffee LOL)  Always worth checking  around.

Interested to learn what your discussions lead to

Cheltenham  service guys are always very fair which is why people return there