Razor61 LS400 front suspension work

Razor61 · November 12, 2019

6 hours ago, ajchetcuti said:

Hi,

Thanks for this post!

Would you mind posting the part numbers for the all the bits replaced?

I have some creaking and cracking in the front suspension and want to replace all the perishable items.

I've got genuine drop links ready to fit. The front strut cushions 48674-40051 you mentioned and the lower arm bushes 48654-50010 in my basket on Amayama. I'm also going to replace the upper control arms with Blue Print parts as it doesn't look like Amayama can supply these anymore.

I've got the mounting insulator on order also as I've heard replacing it makes a difference but not suspension related I know 12371-50010.

What I'm missing is the ARB bushes. Anything else to give the suspension an overhaul?

Thanks.

Alexander.

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No problem, just some more information about the the front strut cushions/bushes below and I'll put together a list of the part number when I can but I think you have pretty much all that I replaced.

As stated before, the cushions I fitted were for a Toyota Century part number 48674-40051 as listed on Amayama that ' may fit'. They do fit but are wider than the originals and I had to centre them correctly. I may be wrong but I think these cushions/bushes are harder than the originals and are definitely approx 10 mm wider (maybe it's the width of the bushes causing any issue - if there is one). My suspension was so soft before and I didn't feel anything from the road much at all but now I do. I can't compare my car with Toyota Century bushes to another car with the 'correct' bushes so I don't know if mine is 'normal' or not. Plus, I've changed the arb bushes and drop links. Maybe it takes some time for it all to bed/settle in. I just wanted to let you know about that. If I was doing it all again, now I know what's involved etc, I would bite the bullet and buy the complete arms with the correct bushes from Amayama. The original bushes were in very very tight and I called in a 'favour' to get them pressed out.

I didn't know the lower arm bushes were available (I presume you mean the front lower arms)

The front ARB bushes I bought from Lexus @ £20 each, Lexus said they looked ok but the ARB was moving which could have been the drop links. I fitted them anyway as I was doing other stuff.

Some advice on doing the work:

The strut arm bush camber bolts - one of them was an issue for me and was seized solid. If I had to do it again I wouldn't use a hydraulic puller as it bent/bulged the mounting bracket. The bracket straightened ok after but I was lucky using the puller didn't cause more damage. I discovered after that the strut arm bush mounting bracket can be removed along with the problem arm/bush to allow it to be worked on 'off the car' which would be easier. To do it on the car, I would simply cut through the camber bolt both ends (inside the bracket) with a large enough grinder and buy another camber bolt (I should have used this method)

I hope that helps.

ajchetcuti · November 13, 2019

21 hours ago, Razor61 said:

No problem, just some more information about the the front strut cushions/bushes below and I'll put together a list of the part number when I can but I think you have pretty much all that I replaced.

As stated before, the cushions I fitted were for a Toyota Century part number 48674-40051 as listed on Amayama that ' may fit'. They do fit but are wider than the originals and I had to centre them correctly. I may be wrong but I think these cushions/bushes are harder than the originals and are definitely approx 10 mm wider (maybe it's the width of the bushes causing any issue - if there is one). My suspension was so soft before and I didn't feel anything from the road much at all but now I do. I can't compare my car with Toyota Century bushes to another car with the 'correct' bushes so I don't know if mine is 'normal' or not. Plus, I've changed the arb bushes and drop links. Maybe it takes some time for it all to bed/settle in. I just wanted to let you know about that. If I was doing it all again, now I know what's involved etc, I would bite the bullet and buy the complete arms with the correct bushes from Amayama. The original bushes were in very very tight and I called in a 'favour' to get them pressed out.

I didn't know the lower arm bushes were available (I presume you mean the front lower arms)

The front ARB bushes I bought from Lexus @ £20 each, Lexus said they looked ok but the ARB was moving which could have been the drop links. I fitted them anyway as I was doing other stuff.

Some advice on doing the work:

The strut arm bush camber bolts - one of them was an issue for me and was seized solid. If I had to do it again I wouldn't use a hydraulic puller as it bent/bulged the mounting bracket. The bracket straightened ok after but I was lucky using the puller didn't cause more damage. I discovered after that the strut arm bush mounting bracket can be removed along with the problem arm/bush to allow it to be worked on 'off the car' which would be easier. To do it on the car, I would simply cut through the camber bolt both ends (inside the bracket) with a large enough grinder and buy another camber bolt (I should have used this method)

I hope that helps.

I guess if the Century bushes are wider they are compressed as they are inserted making them firmer? This is them right? https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4867440051

I might see if I can replace the whole arm. Has anyody got the part numbers for the lower arms as a whole?

Sorry, this is the lower arm bush I was talking about: https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4865450010

The ARB bushes are nice and cheap then!

I have a cracking upon the weight of the car shifting at low speed and when turning in to junctions which is the UCA according to Lexus then also a different noise over speed bumps a groaning sound which I think could be the other bushes. So I definitely need to get some renewing sorted! Thanks for the advice I can pass that onto my garage when I get the parts delivered and fitted. I am going to try and order the original UCA's and hope that Amayama can supply.

Appreciate your help and advice! 🙂

Razor61 · November 13, 2019

2 hours ago, ajchetcuti said:

I guess if the Century bushes are wider they are compressed as they are inserted making them firmer? This is them right? https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4867440051

I might see if I can replace the whole arm. Has anyody got the part numbers for the lower arms as a whole?

Sorry, this is the lower arm bush I was talking about: https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/4865450010

The ARB bushes are nice and cheap then!

I have a cracking upon the weight of the car shifting at low speed and when turning in to junctions which is the UCA according to Lexus then also a different noise over speed bumps a groaning sound which I think could be the other bushes. So I definitely need to get some renewing sorted! Thanks for the advice I can pass that onto my garage when I get the parts delivered and fitted. I am going to try and order the original UCA's and hope that Amayama can supply.

Appreciate your help and advice! 🙂

Yep, they are the same bushes for the 'BAR ASSY, STRUT' to use the description on Amayama. The bushes are the same diameter so it's not compressing the rubber, by wider I mean the bush isn't flush either side of the bush hole, it protrudes around 5mm either side. I don't know how else to describe it. I don't know if these bushes have made the front suspension firmer than it should be. It definitely is firmer than before but the original bushes were knackered and I've done the drop links etc at the same time so maybe it's fine and I'm just being paranoid. One thing I can say though, it feels very very stable now and I don't have to correct the steering as much like I did before. I'm also going round bends faster (not grand prix speeds!!) but I feel more confident in the car to do it now, before I didn't. Also, I stripped everything apart from the lower arms, cleaned up, treated, painted it all, put it all back together and torqued it all up so maybe that has firmed things up as well.

Part numbers and design of the arms vary for the year of manufacture, mine is a 1995 production year UCF20. From looking at Amayama the UCF10 is different, is yours a UCF20 or a UCF10? I've found the best way to get parts numbers is using the chassis/vin number (or frame as the site calls it) on this site: https://lexus-europe.epc-data.com/ls400/ when you click on the prices etc it takes you to Amayama.

Razor61 · November 13, 2019

I've just looked at the lower arm bush you mentioned and it looks like that is for the UCF10 so if your car is a UCF10 then the BAR ASSY, STRUT's and bushes are very different and the Century bushes are not applicable to your car, that's as far as I can see but I stand to be corrected.

ajchetcuti · November 13, 2019

I've just looked at the lower arm bush you mentioned and it looks like that is for the UCF10 so if your car is a UCF10 then the BAR ASSY, STRUT's and bushes are very different and the Century bushes are not applicable to your car, that's as far as I can see but I stand to be corrected.

Hmm it says it should fit but not guaranteed! I'll have a look again and compare. Thanks!

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ajchetcuti · November 13, 2019

Hmm it says it should fit but not guaranteed! I'll have a look again and compare. Thanks!

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Mine is a UCF10 1993.

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Razor61 · November 13, 2019

7 minutes ago, ajchetcuti said:

Mine is a UCF10 1993.

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UCF10 is very different to my UCF20 according to Amayama, have a look at this.

UCF20

UCF10

ajchetcuti · November 15, 2019

Thanks!

I'll look into it more!

Alex.

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ajchetcuti · January 9, 2020

Hi all,

So I've been researching this more. I definitely want to start with the upper control arms as these are the only part Lexus has actually said have play in and need replacing.

I cannot justify £1200 for originals from eBay. Amayama can't seem to supply both and I don't want different brands on each side.

I had a helpful pointer towards rock auto. They stock a few brands and I went straight to the upper end. AC Delco with a Lifetime warranty. Being a GM company I'd expect the parts to be high quality.

What do you guys reckon? The part numbers are hard to match up but they are listed for a 1993 LS400 and I doubt there'll be many versions? I have only seen the 1994 on ones are different.

Alexander.

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The-Acre · January 9, 2020

Sadly Rockauto can't be contacted by phone but their customer service email is fairly good, so you could perhaps email them to check parts details. The lifetime warranty won't apply if shipped outside the US (apart from Canada) so you'll get a two year warranty. If you choose post for shipping you'll likely get clobbered by Parcelforce for import duty. If you choose FedEx you pay vat up front so nothing else to pay, and delivery is very quick, I've had parts delivered in four days.

Malc · January 10, 2020

9 hours ago, ajchetcuti said:

Lexus has actually said have play in and need replacing

are you absolutely certain they really do need replacing ?

Mine needed replacing piecemeal ...... was it the MOT Tester that advised this

one front UCA went at 173k, nearside front and the most wearing it seems, I replaced that with BluePrint and that failed at about 42k miles later at the time I NEEDED to replace the other side front and for which fortunately Amayama had both sides available ( Toyota stamp impressed parts too)

I replaced the rear UCAs similarly Don't think that if the one side needs replacing that they both do at the same time, these are incredibly long wearing parts individually

Malc

ajchetcuti · January 10, 2020

are you absolutely certain they really do need replacing ?
Mine needed replacing piecemeal ...... was it the MOT Tester that advised this
one front UCA went at 173k, nearside front and the most wearing it seems, I replaced that with BluePrint and that failed at about 42k miles later at the time I NEEDED to replace the other side front and for which fortunately Amayama had both sides available ( Toyota stamp impressed parts too)
I replaced the rear UCAs similarly Don't think that if the one side needs replacing that they both do at the same time, these are incredibly long wearing parts individually
Malc

Hi,

I took it to Lexus when the ECU went to try and get it checked over. They had a good look at the suspension while it was there and said there's play in the UCAs but the left side was gone and recommended replacing both at the same time.

With good parts as hard to find as I've found so far for a MK1 I'd rather buy both now and have them than wait and find there's no stock available later down the line. Rock Auto only have one left of the right side and who knows if they'd ever get another AC Delco one in. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to matching parts you see!

I'll start with replacing the left and see how much life there is in the right. Also means at least I can return one if the issue persists after replacing. It might be the bottom joint and Lexus had it wrong...

Thanks. [emoji4][emoji1360]

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Malc · January 10, 2020

on mine there was clearly some 40k life left in the driver's side compared to the nearside at that time ........ a lifetime for some driver's but only 3 years for me as i use my car every day, about 12 / 15k miles a year

It's your preference to replace in pairs but rest assured, with the UCAs that's not necessary

best wishes whatever

Malc

Razor61 · January 10, 2020

1 hour ago, ajchetcuti said:

With good parts as hard to find as I've found so far for a MK1 I'd rather buy both now and have them than wait and find there's no stock available later down the line

I have a similar dilemma, as far as I know the front UCA's don't need replacing on my car. But as I intend to keep the car a long long time and use it everyday, do I stump up the cash now and buy new genuine Lexus/Toyota front UCA's from Amayama while they are available..................approx cost for both £350 plus import taxes etc. of around £70. I already have new genuine rear UCA's, rear hubs and rear bearings so getting the front UCA's would complete the set!

It's in for an MOT tomorrow at Lexus so will ask them to specifically check the front UCA's for any signs of wear and then decide what to do based on what they find.

Tinonline · January 10, 2020

Like Malc (hi Malc 😊) I have one side UCA playing up but the other is ok - driver's side is not happy. If buying from abroad with postage it's probably worth getting the pair.

If you are on a budget and cashflow is king - I'd get the best you can afford and only do what is required - the one side is fine...

The-Acre rightly says tax and admin charge will add to the bill; so needs to be factored in. Nevertheless, Rockauto are very good value and have plenty of choice.

I don't expect to claim on warranty as from experience wherever you are...UK included, this can be very difficult at the best of times. I use the warranty info to get the best I can for the £/$.

shanra · April 25, 2021

I had the front strut bushes replaced on mine on Friday having already had upper control arms done and lower ball joints. And it is slightly firmer and holds the road better at speed, mine had cracking in the rubber but had not come apart. This bush takes a lot of the forces from the car when braking etc and has tightened things up at the front end. A four wheel alignment now needs doing as some bushes and an arm were replaced on backend also. I think I may take it to Wheels-Inmotion in Chesham as I have heard good things about them, it's a 140 mile round trip but having had a four wheel alignment done twice locally by different companies and telling me they had altered camber etc when my mechanic found the bolts were seized on front and rear when he fitted bushes and arm, I shan't be going back to them.

ambermarine · April 26, 2021

The experience I had with wheel alignment issues showed up two companies as totally useless and a guy in Glasgow who was brilliant.When I bought my Mark 4 I soon noticed excessive wear on the nearside front edge to the rate of a tyre every 4k miles.

Lexus Glasgow blamed the tyres age and a Mitsubishi dealer in Devon using their spanking new wheel alignment rig gave me lovely schematic drawings a £80 bill and no solution.

I was introduced to a guy called Kenny Miller in Glasgow who built track cars and was a motor engineer He sorted the problem in an hour and explained the alignment was out by 2 degrees on the adjustable cams which because the previous attempts had been uneducated had wiped out the factory settings.

That was 10 years ago and he front wheel alignment as been perfect to this day and I try to avoid potholes.

rich1068 · April 26, 2021

39 minutes ago, ambermarine said:

I was introduced to a guy called Kenny Miller in Glasgow who built track cars and was a motor engineer He sorted the problem in an hour and explained the alignment was out by 2 degrees on the adjustable cams which because the previous attempts had been uneducated had wiped out the factory settings.

That was 10 years ago and he front wheel alignment as been perfect to this day and I try to avoid potholes.

Similar situation when I had my GS. No one seemed able to get it right until I went to a place round the corner that races MX-5s. They got out the string and did it properly.

shanra · May 10, 2021

On 4/25/2021 at 5:23 PM, shanra said:

I had the front strut bushes replaced on mine on Friday having already had upper control arms done and lower ball joints. And it is slightly firmer and holds the road better at speed, mine had cracking in the rubber but had not come apart. This bush takes a lot of the forces from the car when braking etc and has tightened things up at the front end. A four wheel alignment now needs doing as some bushes and an arm were replaced on backend also. I think I may take it to Wheels-Inmotion in Chesham as I have heard good things about them, it's a 140 mile round trip but having had a four wheel alignment done twice locally by different companies and telling me they had altered camber etc when my mechanic found the bolts were seized on front and rear when he fitted bushes and arm, I shan't be going back to them.

I am now getting a clunk on both sides I can't see or feel anything loose it sounds like the anti roll bar is loose and clunking but that all seems to be quite solid. Drop links were replaced recently so not them. I do hope the mechanic tightened up the bolts when the arms were loaded as looking at the angle of the rod and bushing it seems to be set at a strange angle and it's anything but straight. Anti rollbar and steering rack bushes were all replaced about 20,000 miles ago. Taking it back to the mechanic on Thursday for him to inspect. I can get it to clunk on both sides by pushing up on the wheel arch.

Razor61 · May 10, 2021

44 minutes ago, shanra said:

I do hope the mechanic tightened up the bolts when the arms were loaded as looking at the angle of the rod and bushing it seems to be set at a strange angle and it's anything but straight.

The rod and bushings at a strange angle doesn't sound right. As you say, the front strut camber bolts should be tightened with the cars load/weight on the wheel and bolts for the arb/other suspension bushes plus drop links I would say. There is a guide I had on how to install the strut bushings but I can't find it, iirc there is a larger yellow tab that needs to be at the top and 90 degrees to the horizontal strut bar, or something like that. Looking at the picture I found below it sounds about right. The strut bushes on my car were not falling to bits, as I've seen with other bushes on other makes of car, but they were split all round as in the picture below and under sharp braking there was a heavy clunk. If the camber bolts were not tightened under load then I've been told the stress on the new bushes is so great that they don't last long at all.

The arb on my car could be moved laterally very very easily with a prybar so I replaced the arb bushes and it was fine after.

Mikaelse · May 10, 2021

Yes. You could think that a modest crack in the rubber should be ok for a while still. and that something else is the culprit.
However also my experience that these are often reason for slight shudder when braking at speed and low speed clonk over bumps.
Exchange for new OEM fixed it on two LS400 at about 100 kmiles

shanra · May 13, 2021

On 5/10/2021 at 6:58 AM, shanra said:

I am now getting a clunk on both sides I can't see or feel anything loose it sounds like the anti roll bar is loose and clunking but that all seems to be quite solid. Drop links were replaced recently so not them. I do hope the mechanic tightened up the bolts when the arms were loaded as looking at the angle of the rod and bushing it seems to be set at a strange angle and it's anything but straight. Anti rollbar and steering rack bushes were all replaced about 20,000 miles ago. Taking it back to the mechanic on Thursday for him to inspect. I can get it to clunk on both sides by pushing up on the wheel arch.

It ended up being a nut on one of the drop links hadn't been tightened right up.