Not cranking

[Sjs1994]

Posted a while back in regards to ‘Check hybrid System’. Had someone out and there’s nothing wrong with the hybrid Battery. The engine itself is not starting so draining the hybrid Battery.....

when turning on the car the crank turns about an inch and doesn't go anymore making a clunking sound. There seems to be a little oil around this area but nothing or top of engine etc. 

Anykne had a similar problem or could help? 

[NemesisUK]

The hybrid Battery is what spins the engine to start. Does the hybrid Battery have any charge?

Really needs to have someone with Techstream to diagnose what's wrong, read off the error codes.

[Sjs1994]

I’ve had someone out and he said the hybrid Battery was flat. He took it out and charged it, put it back in and it was showing no signs of anything being wrong with it. Wasn’t throwing up any codes it just seems to be the problem with starting 

[Herbie]

That's not the hybrid Battery, that's the 12V Battery - the traction (hybrid) Battery is a nominal 288V and he wouldn't get it out to charge it.

The 12V Battery powers up the computers that work the entry/exit systems and also the computers to bring the car to the READY state. Once the hybrid system is READY it will then put power to MG1 to crank the engine.

What, exactly, is happening? Any warning lights on the dash? Any error codes from the OBD port?

[Herbie]

@Sjs1994 I see that the other topic you refer to is dated 27th June, about the car going into 'Traction Battery Preservation Mode'. A couple of people responded, myself included, but you never came back to let us know what happened.

Has the car not started since then or has it been running alright? If it's been alright, what did you do to cure the last problem?

As Peter said above, this is probably going to need Techstream to diagnose rather than just a generic OBD reader so do you have it, or know someone who has?

[Sjs1994]

It hasn’t been running since. I had a ‘hybrid specialist’ come out to my home. He has run diagnostic checks and said there is nothing wrong with the hybrid system. He jump started the car as the 12v has died again. I put my foot on the brake and go to start the car and all you can hear is a clunk/click noise. I looked in the engine bay and it’s looks as if the crankshaft is not moving as it should. It’s moving slightly and then stopping completely and then a click every 5 seconds after. Cars is not staring at all 

[Herbie]

So, when you say that he "jump started the car" did the engine fire up then or not?

When you put your foot on the brake do you get the green light on the power switch? Do you hear the "clunk/click" at that point or when you press the power switch?

[Sjs1994]

The engine is not starting, the jump start was just to get power to the 12v. The sound is coming after pushing the button, it’s as if it’s reading it but mechanically nothings happening 

[Herbie]

5 minutes ago, Sjs1994 said:

The engine is not starting, the jump start was just to get power to the 12v.

But I thought you said that he took the Battery out to charge it and then put it back in and it showed no signs of anything being wrong with it? If that's correct, what was a jump start required for?

What I'm trying to get at is, are you absolutely sure that your 12V Battery is in good working order and fully charged? There's been a few people on these forums who have parked at the airport and come back to a flat 12V Battery after a two-week holiday so they do discharge quickly. We need to make sure beyond any doubt whatsoever that you have a good Battery first or we'll get nowhere.

Using a multimeter, check the standing voltage of the 12V Battery and compare it to this chart:

[Sjs1994]

I’m not sure if he’s said the wrong thing or pulled the wool over my eyes but I was told that my hybrid Battery had been run low? That’s what he charged? The 12v is brand new as I was advised by Lexus to change this? However that has since gone flat.

[Sjs1994]

I’m not sure if he’s said the wrong thing or pulled the wool over my eyes but I was told that my hybrid Battery had been run low? That’s what he charged? I was charged £250 for this.  The 12v is brand new as I was advised by Lexus to change this? However that has since gone flat.

[Herbie]

Have a look at this https://www.hevshop.com/post/lexus-hybrid-battery-replacement-ct200h

Is that the Battery that he took out and charged? And if so, how long did it take him to charge it?

[Sjs1994]

As I was told yes. I wasn’t present at the time as I was working. I was told by the gentleman that because the engine wasn’t starting it was draining the charge out of the hybrid. He said to me it may be a possible crankshaft but he couldn’t give a definite. The hybrid is all in order. No faults codes, he said it was mechanical. 

[200h]

here is a link incase you need a replacement hybrid Battery 2nd hand its £699 inc postage

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/401792132135

[Herbie]

46 minutes ago, Sjs1994 said:

As I was told yes. I wasn’t present at the time as I was working. I was told by the gentleman that because the engine wasn’t starting it was draining the charge out of the hybrid. He said to me it may be a possible crankshaft but he couldn’t give a definite. The hybrid is all in order. No faults codes, he said it was mechanical. 

In that case then Spencer, I apologise.

When you said earlier that a guy had been, taken the Battery out, charged it and replaced it, I assumed that you were confusing the 12V and the hybrid batteries. It's such a rare occurrence, especially on such a young car (Lexus warranty them for 15 years as long as you have the annual Hybrid Health Check done), that I thought you had to be mistaken.

The guy is right, if the engine doesn't start the hybrid Battery will flatten but I don't know how long it would take. Both batteries depend on each other - the 12V Battery boots the computers to start the hybrid system and get the car READY, then the hybrid Battery is used to charge the 12V again via a DC/DC converter and also runs the engine up to speed using one of the motor/generators before applying fuel and spark to fire it.

Given the absence of any error codes and not being there to poke about, I'm really not sure what you should do next but, whatever it is, I sincerely wish you all the best for a speedy and reasonably-priced solution.

[Sjs1994]

Apologies also. Not the best at working things I have no clue about! But thanks for all your help hopefully I can get to the bottom of it 

[Charlie Alder]

With all batteries fully charged does the car move if you put it in EV node?

[Charlie Alder]

Mode not node, sorry for typo.

[Sjs1994]

I haven’t tried driving it since as it won’t start the engine. But originally when the problem first happened it would drive up to about 10mph and then cut out and say ‘check hybrid system’. As I started it it sounded like there was rumbling sound coming from the engine bay. The car electrics etc start fine but the engine won’t 

[Charlie Alder]

Maybe motor that cranks the engine has failed, similar to the starter motor on a traditional ICE. Sounds like an engine out and strip down of the drive shaft is needed.

[Sjs1994]

I was told this might be the problem. Is it a big job? And the all important question expensive? Obviously I know it will be cheaper than buying a new car 

[NemesisUK]

If it's one of the electric motors then the hybrid system would be showing faults.

Stop guessing and get the car on Techstream operated by someone who knows what they're doing.

[Britprius]

I know at first this may sound crazy, but have you checked the oil level in the engine. The Prius is known under certain circumstances to use engine oil. If the owner does not check the oil on a regular basis it is possible for the engine to run out of oil, and seize. This then gives rise to the symptoms you have or have had. A rumbling engine, and then an engine that will not crank. In this situation the engine will need replacing
Because the engine will not turn the hybrid Battery becomes discharged trying to turn the engine. This in turn stops charging the 12 volt Battery discharging it. There will be no hybrid codes in theory because the hybrid system does still work. Although there may be codes that the reader being used is not Toyota compatible. Under normal conditions there would be codes for an under voltage hybrid Battery along with engine did not start codes. There would also be other codes that I will not go into.

John.

[Sjs1994]

Car had not long had a service. Oil level was checked and was over the limit slightly but was oil none the less. Seems to be a little oil where the crankshaft is. 

[Herbie]

3 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Stop guessing and get the car on Techstream operated by someone who knows what they're doing

Even if they don't know what they're doing, that's good advice from Peter because you could then post the results in here and give us something to work with.