Fuel system cleaner

[Lager shandy]

Morning everyone when I collected my Rx I stopped at the first garage to fill up , I put in  esso premium petrol as this was only pump free.

Now what's the thoughts on regular vs premium petrol or do people pop in a fuel system cleaner every now and then .

On my avensis 2.2diesel I only ever used shell premium and never had any issues with egr valve  or dpf right up to 90k miles with the correct driving etc .but now with the hybrid which switches on and off you can't really say cruise at the correct rpm as it's all out of your hands if I'm explaining this correctly .hence my thoughts about using quality fuel and cleaners ,also good oil and maybe earlier oil change between services .which I can do easily . I do like to look after my cars regarding engine etc rather than oooo it's been cleaned and shiny and just leaving everything else up to lexus who couldn't really give a monkeys about your car and just change the oil and filter once a year .and stamp your book .

[Delphius1]

I don't mind which petrol I put in the car. Generally it's a mixture of regular supermarket petrol, with the premium stuff once a month or so. 

I did use a fuel cleaner once, it cleaned the system so well my mpg went from 32 to 22. It had cleaned the fuel consumption sensor so I was getting a true reading. ☹️

[olliesgrandad]

Use a mixture of supermarket and branded fuel. Occasionally stick some Redex ii. 

I always used to use branded fuel, but the RX450h has so much power I haven't bothered. Mind my cars usually running hot as a minimum journey is around 25 miles and several times a week 160+ a day with lots of A roads and motorway. 

I never had dpf or egr problems with any of my diesels because of the mileage they were doing, 

[Herbie]

Premium petrol is for people with too much money to waste or for engines that are specifically tuned to make use of it. None of my cars have ever fallen into that category so I only use supermarket fuel (or others if I'm somewhere else when I need it) and have run some of them up to 150k without any problems.

[rayaans]

Had issues with supermarket standard fuel from sainsburys a while back, stopped using it and then I got 6p off a litre this year voucher. Thought why not. Used it in my car and lawnmower. Lawnmower hated it, car wasn't the same. Had a word with the lawnmower service guy and he said not to use it unless going through a tank fairly quickly. There are barely any fuel stabilisers in supermarket fuel which is why it tends to go "off" within 2 weeks. Never had an issue with branded fuel like BP, Shell, Esso in the tank even after 4-5 weeks

Son's Merc doesn't like supermarket petrol, runs rough with a higher idle and very prominent lag over 3k rpm. Most people won't notice this as they hardly go over 3k rpm anyway. Petrol engines also seem to be more resistant to crap fuel.

 

[olliesgrandad]

49 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Had issues with supermarket standard fuel from sainsburys a while back, stopped using it and then I got 6p off a litre this year voucher. Thought why not. Used it in my car and lawnmower. Lawnmower hated it, car wasn't the same. Had a word with the lawnmower service guy and he said not to use it unless going through a tank fairly quickly. There are barely any fuel stabilisers in supermarket fuel which is why it tends to go "off" within 2 weeks. Never had an issue with branded fuel like BP, Shell, Esso in the tank even after 4-5 weeks

Son's Merc doesn't like supermarket petrol, runs rough with a higher idle and very prominent lag over 3k rpm. Most people won't notice this as they hardly go over 3k rpm anyway. Petrol engines also seem to be more resistant to crap fuel.

 

Agree that diesel cars definitely don't like the supermarket fuel. My last 2 Mercedes didn't. 

As for petrol, it's not in my tank for more than 3 or 4 days 😂

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, olliesgrandad said:

Agree that diesel cars definitely don't like the supermarket fuel. My last 2 Mercedes didn't. 

As for petrol, it's not in my tank for more than 3 or 4 days 😂

Probably wont make a difference to you then! 

[JeffL]

Never had a problem with Tesco unleaded during the last 10 years ownership of my GS300 and a tank lasts me for ages as I do a low annual mileage. Mostly journeys of about 5 miles (10 miles round trip) with occasional 70 mile to 200 mile motorway journeys. No idea what revs it gets to, I just drive it and enjoy the luxury of it.

[Barry14UK]

I don't know by how much (or if at all) our cars are affected being hybrids but which fuel is used makes some difference in terms of calorific value and to a less quantifiable extent on the cleanliness of a petrol engine.   High compression high performance car engines particularly benefit from High Octane fuel provided by the 'Super' grades to combat knock and develop maximum power.  This may make a slight difference with our cars from this aspect.  However, the different additives in the 'Super' grade are reputed to keep the engine cleaner and running at full potential. so may benefit our cars.

I remember, somewhat vaguely now, as it was quite some time ago, that this subject was raised in some depth on a BMW forum and the majority of members who posted thought it was a good idea to fill up with an occasional tankful of Shell V Super being the preferred choice, which is what I do. A minority used only the higher octane as a norm and the majority used only a standard Premium rather than Super  grade from petrol chains or supermarkets. 

We lost lead in petrol causing manufacturers to make material changes particularly in valve seats and now we have Ethanol which is expected to increase still further as a percentage in the fuel.  Whilst it is seen as making petrol a little 'greener', it gives slightly worse MPG and has some other disadvantages, particularly for some classic cars. It also takes a lot of land to grow the plant.

Somebody, I knew had his own garage business and tested a well publicised additive at the time that you put in the tank to supposedly give more MPG among other things.  He could not substantiate the claims from his tests.  (This was not the additive formulated to protect affected engines  from omission of lead). I would be very careful when considering what you add to fuel bearing in mind additives refiners have already incorporated in fuels  

[olliesgrandad]

9 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

I don't know by how much (or if at all) our cars are affected being hybrids but which fuel is used makes some difference in terms of calorific value and to a less quantifiable extent on the cleanliness of a petrol engine.   High compression high performance car engines particularly benefit from High Octane fuel provided by the 'Super' grades to combat knock and develop maximum power.  

 

I know that my 1997 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro had a switching mechanism to allow use of 95 RON fuel because it was designed to only use 98RON fuel. The same applied to my 1999 BMW Z3 2.8. 

With the BMW I ran low on fuel in darkest Devon and had to refuel with Texaco 95 RON petrol. 

The car didn't like it at all and idled unevenly and the drop in performance was very noticeable until I managed to refuel with super unleaded. 

[C Mclean]

Anyone who fills up with fuel must have money to burn 🤪😜🤡

[Lost it]

Lots of anecdotes out there. In the UK...

All motor vehicle has to be of a quality that it meets the correct British Standard. So that's what is manufactured and that's what goes into the tanks.

Lets call this the "Minimum" standard.

That's the cheapest refinery fuel buyers can get, so supermarkets buy it to sell on. It goes into the tanker and off to the petrol station pump. Petrol is "stored" on water. I've heard rumours that Tesco buy the stuff that is "closest" to the point where they don't draw any more fuel from the tank because it's a bit cheaper, and Tesco are all about profit, never anything else. So it follows that their fuel might have a little more "damp" in it than anyone elses. TBH I won't touch their fuel with a bargepole, the only times I ever have I've had running problems. And higher use of fuel for a given mileage. Yes, I do enough mileage that I can usually tell the difference, currently doing 1000 miles a week average.

If you buy a "Branded" fuel their USP is that they have an additive package that will help your engine stay cleaner, post combustion cleaners, added snake oil stuff etc. to bring it up to 97 or 98 ron fuel in the UK if you go for the premium brand.

In most cases the "Branded" fuel will adapt to changing weather conditions better, more quickly, if it does clean the combustion spaces, fair do's but the car will definitely run nicer with it in as against any supermarket brand. Generally smells nicer as well.

And TBH where I live there's almost no difference in price between the bare BS supermarket stuff and the "good stuff". Supermarkets sell it as a loss leader, to add to the convenience factor.

Your money, your vehicle. But I won't even put supermarket stuff in my hedge trimmer.

[scudney]

As the saying goes everyone to there own,nearest petrol station to me is a supermarket one and have used it for the last 20 years with no problems whatsoever and in a variety of cars too😁👍

[JeffL]

7 hours ago, scudney said:

As the saying goes everyone to there own,nearest petrol station to me is a supermarket one and have used it for the last 20 years with no problems whatsoever and in a variety of cars too😁👍

Same here

[Lager shandy]

When we fill up with shell v power petrol and I pull back out on to the road my heads up display changes and Jeremy clarkson shouts powerrrrrrrrrr 😈

[Lost it]

Well, I was T boned off my bike a couple of weeks ago, I've been "fitted" with a walking "moon boot" thing as my left ankle got thoroughly rogered by the BMW that T boned me. Lateral Malleus cracked and some soft tissue damage, so it's broke. 6 weeks of moon boot. Great fun. Not an unstable break though luckily. I had a lot of "fun" changing the spark plugs last weekend, the old ones don't look like they have been in there for 120,000 miles, but the car definitely runs better now. Might be because two of the plugs in the rear bank were barely finger tight.

So my transport to work is the Lexus RX at the moment. 900 miles and a bit a week... I tried the Jaguar, I could get in easily enough, took me about 3 minutes to get back out, I think I know how Douglas Bader felt when he got his leg stuck climbing out of his aircraft all those years ago. Moon boot got stuck on everything...

I use Esso or Shell, normal grade. But I went into Sainsbury's and got a "Double points and 5p a litre off" ticket so I thought I'd use it and filled the car from the idiot light. 69 litres.

Call this unscientific if you like, but for two weeks I have done more or less the same journey. Starting at 05:30, off Hayling Island, onto the A3, off at the M25, to the A41 then to my work site at Century Park. Then home again at about 17:30 so I miss most of the waiting around on the M25. 190 mile round trip.

And I can get two days from a full tank easily. No real worries, I put 68 litres back in and off I go again.

Except I only got 356 miles from the Sainbury's fill until the idiot light came on, and had to top up with expensive south bound A3 BP garage fuel. So I didn't actually save anything.

The weather wasn't much different, I always run the climate control in Auto, no more or less traffic than normal, just a loss of quite a chunk of miles from one fill of supermarket fuel.

So I won't be using it again unless it comes free with a hot and cold running chambermaid option.

[Lager shandy]

Hmm that's interesting ,I think we are going to stay with v power as it's our nearest garage for the wife . Due to the car sitting around a lot .i normally use aspen fuel for my lawn mower and strimmers etc as it doesn't fall to pieces and gum up your fuel system over winter £20 for 5ltrs you can get it straight and pre-mixed for two strokes .

[Mr Vlad]

Never mind what fuel you put in it. What's more important is an oil additive because of the masses of stop starts of the engine. In all my cars of the past 25 years I've put a dose of ZX1 in my engines.

As for fuel tesco fuel had a bad spell a couple or so years ago where it was found it wrecked a large number of engines. Must be something in what's been said here about fuel being stored on water.

In my petrol cars I've run supermarket fuel and shell v power at a 3 to 1 ratio. In diesel cars I've owned dead simple. Millers in every tankful of supermarket fuel.

[Barry14UK]

As regards owner added additives, oil companies invariably say their oils do not benefit from these as their oils include all that is necessary for a particular oil. Some drivers swear by STP or one of many other additives. It would be interesting to get the views of Lexus on this.

However,  I have seen the demo whereby the force applied to stop a motor turning by pressure exerted on it by a bar lubricated by a branded oil and one with an after market additive is compared.  The latter required much more force to stop the motor. From a practical point of view I remember, (it would have been late fifties or early sixties), a motor cyclist who on checking found his oil tank empty attributed the fact that the engine  had not seized was due to having Molyslip added.  He did not know how long the bike had been without oil so not a very scientific test.  This was on British bike with dry sump lubrication system.

Most wear in an engine is caused when started from cold so more wear could be caused by many short journeys rather tan fewer longer ones over longer miles. The fact that our hybrid engines stop and start a number of times on each journey is therefore less important than the number of cold starts.

[MrChemist]

There is a YouTube video in which Jason Plato on 5th Gear tries to get all the horses back into a few-year-old Golf (or something), first thing he puts in is STP and it makes more difference than new air cleaner, oil filter etc.

Nearest thing to an impartial test, I suppose.  My 2003 GS300 seemed to go better after a dose of STP.

I am not affiliated to STP in any way, just saying what I've seen and done.

[Lager shandy]

I wonder if anyone's ever fitted nitrous to a rx for traffic light fun 😆With the cvt box it would be interesting.

[Barry14UK]

Do it Alan! you could be the first!  I bet there are more people who have converted mobility scooters from electric to motor bike power.  Here is one of a number, at least this guy did it for a record 107mph on a track. 

Sorry going a bit off topic there for a bit of light relief but more pertinently, I will relate an experience I had with a V6 2.5 Camry some years ago,

The car had been overheating but replacement of a suspect rad made no difference.  It transpired the problem was a failed cylinder head gasket at about 130K miles.  The gaskets were replaced but quite soon thereafter the oil warning light came on and adding more oil only worked for a short time.  I arranged for the guy who had done the head gaskets to transport it to his premises and he dropped the sump having first drained it. Contained in the bottom were tiny flakes of hardened oil which had almost entirely blocked the oil strainer.  The previous overheating has caused the coating of oil throughout the engine to flake off.  Fortunately, a thorougher clean., flush, new oil and filter  and everything was OK with no permanent damage.  Maybe the situation might have been avoided if an oil with more scrubbing additives had been used previously, so there was not a build up of hardened oil residue and there again if a flushing oil had been used between oil changes, although some say there is a risk of blocking oilways by using flushing oil. 

[Lost it]

On 8/8/2019 at 8:31 PM, Mr Vlad said:

Never mind what fuel you put in it. What's more important is an oil additive because of the masses of stop starts of the engine. In all my cars of the past 25 years I've put a dose of ZX1 in my engines.

As for fuel tesco fuel had a bad spell a couple or so years ago where it was found it wrecked a large number of engines. Must be something in what's been said here about fuel being stored on water.

In my petrol cars I've run supermarket fuel and shell v power at a 3 to 1 ratio. In diesel cars I've owned dead simple. Millers in every tankful of supermarket fuel.

I stuck a bottle of ZX1 in mine too. Didn't make any difference to mpg but the engine is very slightly quieter. I'm pretty sure it works better in a car that hasn't had regular oil changes, but one that has been serviced right, you won't see much improvement. Tried it in 4 cars now, always had the same result. Engine slightly smoother, a bit quieter but no mpg improvement.

I'm not about to risk one supermarket and one decent fuel in mine, with the moonboot on it's a bind having to get out half way home to top the tank up... And as I've said, it's no cheaper than the "proper" stuff where I live on Hayling.

[PCM]

On 8/8/2019 at 6:08 PM, Lager shandy said:

Hmm that's interesting ,I think we are going to stay with v power as it's our nearest garage for the wife . Due to the car sitting around a lot .i normally use aspen fuel for my lawn mower and strimmers etc as it doesn't fall to pieces and gum up your fuel system over winter £20 for 5ltrs you can get it straight and pre-mixed for two strokes .

Just heard about Aspen Fuel.

Might get some for my generator.

It's not cheap but has longevity. ( Like me I hope. )