Alternative to Lexus

Casa1862 · July 29, 2019

We have a 300h which we are going to keep, need to get a second car and would like to stay with Lexus but the range is just too similar, I like the look of the RC but same as IS just different body. The ES has the same engine and I just don’t the styling, particularly were they are putting the sport/eco mode button, what made them put them above the speedo, seems the same on the UC.

looking at 5 series bmw or new 3 which has lots of kit on it and decent deals on pre ref ones. £30k gets you a delivery millage one with £50k list, eg 530i with some nice options, I like the Merc E class coupes but a little out of my price range yet. I know people will mention reliability but I only intend to run it for 4 years max, BMW will do a deal on an 1 year warranty extension anyway. I’ve had BMW and Merc before and all have been perfectly reliable but I’m sure others have different experience but I can only comment on mine.

I like Lexus but at the moment just don’t want two similar cars, I have £30 budget, any ideas ?

First_Lexus · July 29, 2019

If a saloon is in order the deals on pre-reg Alfa Giulia are excellent. A good spec diesel should leave plenty of change from £30k, petrols more expensive but still should be within budget with a bit of haggling.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906108868959?sort=sponsored&radius=1500&maximum-mileage=500&make=ALFA ROMEO&advertising-location=at_cars&model=GIULIA&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&postcode=nw16jl&page=2

A Mustang might be an interesting choice too.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201907270518259?advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&radius=1500&make=FORD&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&maximum-mileage=5000&model=MUSTANG&postcode=nw16jl&page=1

doog442 · July 29, 2019

3 hours ago, Casa1862 said:

looking at 5 series bmw or new 3 which has lots of kit on it and decent deals on pre ref ones. £30k gets you a delivery millage one with £50k list, eg 530i with some nice options

Last October I moved from an IS to a F30 3 series (340i) fully loaded, pre reg, no miles £30K - list price was £47k.

The 3 series G20 replacement is much improved Inside but not sure on current offers and might not represent as good value as the 5 series you mentioned.

I've owned two BMW's in the last five years and have no issues but I expect the worse lol. The extended warranty is good value and absolutely no quibble I understand if you keep it beyond the three years. Obviously they are as common as muck :yucky: ...I must see several Mineral grey F30's every day - but rarely a 340i.

Casa1862 · July 29, 2019

Thanks for the suggestions, the alfa is nice but I'd not buy one.

340i must be a nice drive, yes I test drove a 330i G20 over the weekend and the amount of kit as standard is very good, the interior quality is a real step up, even the leather quality has improved. It's making a lot of the competition look really date, Lexus should take a look at there infotainment system to see how it done.

19 reg Pre reg no miles 330i Msport can be had for £29k, seems a decent buy. The new plug in G20 hybrid is the same price list so won't be long before they are the same as the 330i. Lexus just don't seem to be keeping up, we'll keep our 300h but won't be a two Lexi family soon. Common yes, that's what keeping prices down, no bad thing.

ganzoom · July 29, 2019

If your looking at the 3 series surely you have to look at the Model 3?

£30K doesn't quite get you into a Model 3, but its not far off.

Tesla have also reduced the price of the 'P' version - so for just under £50K your have something that is just about the quickest thing with 4 wheels you can buy for use on public roads!! It's a jump in the budget but near 3 second 0-60 time is something you have to experience to really understand, that's McLaren F1 quick!1

Martin F · July 29, 2019

But it’s Fugly !

Shada · July 29, 2019

It's certainly no Volvo!

ganzoom · July 30, 2019

7 hours ago, Martin F said:

But it’s Fugly !

The 3 really is one of those cars that look better in real life than in photos.

We our frist one on holiday in Portugal and it did stand out much more than I thought.

The main 'problem' of the 3 is pricing, in particular the 'P' cars, at under £50k with all options you want/need its only £7k more than the list price of our current IS300H, but your getting so much more speed and tech.

We did order a SR £37k 3 but than cancelled it, I think I rather wait till we saved up for the £50k 'P' variant. It really is great leveller, performance that only those who could afford and run supercars is now here for everyone to enjoy.

The fact once you bought one a 3 second 0-60 Model 3 will actually cost less to run than a BMW 320D is just a donus :).

i-s · July 30, 2019

Ganzoom beat me to it...

My Model 3 SR+ arrives in a couple of weeks time. It will live alongside our GS450h.

If you can find the extra up-front cost for the model 3 then the TCO will be way lower than any other car you're looking at. Having just paid nearly £800 to have our GS serviced, that's a significant chunk of change that simply doesn't need spending on a Model 3 (only maintenance required is brake fluid every 2 years, coolant every 5 years, and periodic replacement of cabin filter - all DIYable (and Tesla have published, FoC, details on how to do these jobs) or can be done by any garage. Tesla encourage people not to use Tesla for "servicing", and they do not make it a profit centre. It doesn't affect your warranty in any way). Fuelling works out about 3p/mile, which is about 15p/mile less than a 330i (in which you'll be lucky to get 30mpg)

A few intriguing points - the Model 3 SR+ is significantly lighter than the LR AWD/P versions, and at 1611kg it's actually very similar weight to an IS300h (1620kg). Weight distribution is about 48:52 or 47:53 in the SR+ (the SR+ Battery is all pushed to the back of the Battery box with a "gap filler" at the front, which moves the weight distribution rearward, along with not having the weight of the front motor), with lower CoG and Polar Moment of Inertia than any mid-engined supercar.

With my Nissan Leaf I discovered the real truth of electric car performance, which is that in an EV you can (and probably will - in the leaf had to, but from the lights (with the element of surprise!) it caused more than its fair share of upsets) regularly make use of ALL of the performance that the car has to offer. In a 330i, a Giulia Veloce or even the IS300h of course you will sometimes... but when it comes to the 6th roundabout of the day when you've got a bit of a headache and you just can't deal with the noise (and let's face it, the days of sonorous N/A i6 and V8s are gone, and a turbo 4 with synthesised noise is just noise), vibration and harsh shifts that come with driving a car hard you're simply not going to do it. With an EV there's never any turbo lag, no waiting for the car to "wake up" and no noise to put you off enjoying the actual drive.

The other interesting thing that I found with the Model 3 is that when you sit in it it immediately makes everything else feel totally out of date. Even the G20 3 series (which launched on sale almost 2 years AFTER the Model 3) feels very cramped and old-skool by comparison. Pictures and videos simply do NOT convey what it's like to sit in the back seat of the model 3 with the sky open above you. How simple it is not having to search through 37 different menus with 5 different ways of doing something to change something - there's one place, one way. The ventilation system in the 3 is a masterpiece. Even if you don't think it's the car for you, at least go and have a sit in (and if you can, drive) one.

Casa1862 · July 30, 2019

Thanks for the info, I’m not really after supercar performance, wouldn’t be in a 300h otherwise! I just don’t like the look of thing and the build quality looks poor.

the biggest issue which hasn’t been mentioned is range, far more important than 0-60 times. I do some long trips sometimes with 4 passengers, being able to get to my destination without having to recharge is essential. If I was considering EV then I’d look at the new 330e, it has. 15kw Battery with a range of 37 miles but more importantly ICE for longer trips. Dealer said there will be lots for pre reg 330e soon for we’ll within my £30k budget, the rrp is the same as the 330i.

olliesgrandad · July 30, 2019

On 7/29/2019 at 9:27 AM, Casa1862 said:

I like Lexus but at the moment just don’t want two similar cars, I have £30 budget, any ideas ?

Having owned 2 Mercedes before my first Lexus I am in no rush to return.

Before the Mercedes I had 2 minis. The last one I bought new at the end of 2014 and it was gone 6 months later. Why? Because BMW customer service is abyssmal and the product quality and development poor.

Likewise getting a service or warranty work booked with Mercedes is a nightmare. I drive around 30000 miles a year and I don't want to wait a month to get a service or repair because the dealers have insufficient technicians.

The reliability and dealer service of the Lexus network is hard to beat.

If you don't want another similar Lexus have you considered a high spec Toyota, perhaps the new RAV4..

200h · July 31, 2019

here you go then

a toyota camry and it starts at £30k

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/camry/?&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=OEM-UK-EN-B-Model-Camry-xx-GOO-EXACT&utm_term=toyota+camry&gclid=CjwKCAjw-ITqBRB7EiwAZ1c5UzBEgpbU-Uk6jTo1sBZLfecBxarxtxFEA2LGewbk38yxIzFGOMnlqRoCixwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

First_Lexus · July 31, 2019

22 hours ago, olliesgrandad said:

Having owned 2 Mercedes before my first Lexus I am in no rush to return.

Before the Mercedes I had 2 minis. The last one I bought new at the end of 2014 and it was gone 6 months later. Why? Because BMW customer service is abyssmal and the product quality and development poor.

Likewise getting a service or warranty work booked with Mercedes is a nightmare. I drive around 30000 miles a year and I don't want to wait a month to get a service or repair because the dealers have insufficient technicians.

The reliability and dealer service of the Lexus network is hard to beat.

If you don't want another similar Lexus have you considered a high spec Toyota, perhaps the new RAV4..

Totally agree about Lexus customer service, although Honda ran them pretty close in my experience.

I've owned new MINIs since 2001 - my current one from new since 2004 - and have always found the service good. Not exceptional, but solid, with no cause for complaint. They don't go the extra mile, and that's what makes Lexus different from my experience. I've not had a single quality issue with either of my MINIs, and I've only ever had advisories on MOTs for a nail in a tyre and wiper blades. No rattles either, and the best paintwork I've ever had on a car, including my current NX. Amazing on a (now) 14 year old car...

...anyway, I guess we all have different experiences and expectations. While I am an advocate for MINI, Honda and now Lexus, my (and my family) have had dreadful experiences with VW, Audi and Skoda - and I mean new engines, new gearboxes, failed interior trim, poor paintwork, breakdowns...really really awful, and on new and nearly new cars too. I'd rather have my eyes gouged out with a rusty spoon than to ever buy or recommend one, except to somebody I didn't like. 😈

olliesgrandad · July 31, 2019

35 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Totally agree about Lexus customer service, although Honda ran them pretty close in my experience.

I've owned new MINIs since 2001 - my current one from new since 2004 - and have always found the service good. Not exceptional, but solid, with no cause for complaint. They don't go the extra mile, and that's what makes Lexus different from my experience. I've not had a single quality issue with either of my MINIs, and I've only ever had advisories on MOTs for a nail in a tyre and wiper blades. No rattles either, and the best paintwork I've ever had on a car, including my current NX. Amazing on a (now) 14 year old car...

...anyway, I guess we all have different experiences and expectations. While I am an advocate for MINI, Honda and now Lexus, my (and my family) have had dreadful experiences with VW, Audi and Skoda - and I mean new engines, new gearboxes, failed interior trim, poor paintwork, breakdowns...really really awful, and on new and nearly new cars too. I'd rather have my eyes gouged out with a rusty spoon than to ever buy or recommend one, except to somebody I didn't like. 😈

My first 2013 Mini Clubman diesel bought as ex demo with 1,500 miles was great, no problems in 20000 miles in 9 months.

Its successor the new model diesel bought brand new to order was dreadful, clearly underdeveloped. Fuel consumption was awful compared to the previous car. Numerous trips to the dealer for software updates a total steering failure at 6 months old resulting in the BMW recovery service damaging the bodywork and causing electronic mayhem because they didn't disarm the pre crash system before dragging it on a spectacle lift for 100miles.No parts available in the UK so car off road for 2 weeks.

I'm sure your 2004 car is great, but I wonder if you owned the latest model if it would be so good....

Casa1862 · July 31, 2019

Thanks for the suggestions but as others have said the dealer experience varies, I’ve had no problem with BMW and if I’m honest my last experience with Lexus was not great, £600 for a service which is a glorified oil change, no offer of a coffee, loan car (UX- can’t believe that was a £35k car!) really dirty and someone’s luggage in the boot.

i also find BMW cheaper to run, the service intervals for me are perfect, almost two years rather than 1 year in the Lexus, cheaper service costs too.

im looking at the 5 series now as good value, 19 reg delivery mileage 530’s in my price range, 540i getting there, maybe a 12 month old one.

doog442 · July 31, 2019

We have two Minis in the family, both Coopers one a 65 plate (from new ) and the other a 14 (had for three years).

Both have been totally reliable. We all use the same BMW / Mini dealer and they have been brilliant for both my bimmers and the girls Minis.

Just beware of the luxury tax on the 530 /540i...it was more the principal that got my goat (List being in the zone) yet purchase price for pre reg with zero miles £10k under it !

i-s · August 1, 2019

Well, if you're looking at a year-old 540i then surely it's worth a look at a used facelift GS450h? We felt the Lexus was a far better car when we looked, because BMW's nickel-and-dime on the options list means you end up with stupid stuff like a 530i with a manual passenger seat. Our GS is returning nearly 40mpg - good luck seeing north of 30 from a 540i, and much nicer build etc.

This one is a rather tasty option, in perfect specification: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905238253618

August 1, 2019

We have Had our Mini Countryman Phev for 7 months now and it is our first dealings with Mini dealerships and have to say they have given great service so far.

Also the Mini itself is a very rewarding car to drive and feels well built and has no annoying rattles.

Cactus · August 1, 2019

On 7/30/2019 at 8:55 AM, i-s said:

Ganzoom beat me to it...

My Model 3 SR+ arrives in a couple of weeks time. It will live alongside our GS450h.

If you can find the extra up-front cost for the model 3 then the TCO will be way lower than any other car you're looking at. Having just paid nearly £800 to have our GS serviced, that's a significant chunk of change that simply doesn't need spending on a Model 3 (only maintenance required is brake fluid every 2 years, coolant every 5 years, and periodic replacement of cabin filter - all DIYable (and Tesla have published, FoC, details on how to do these jobs) or can be done by any garage. Tesla encourage people not to use Tesla for "servicing", and they do not make it a profit centre. It doesn't affect your warranty in any way). Fuelling works out about 3p/mile, which is about 15p/mile less than a 330i (in which you'll be lucky to get 30mpg)

A few intriguing points - the Model 3 SR+ is significantly lighter than the LR AWD/P versions, and at 1611kg it's actually very similar weight to an IS300h (1620kg). Weight distribution is about 48:52 or 47:53 in the SR+ (the SR+ battery is all pushed to the back of the battery box with a "gap filler" at the front, which moves the weight distribution rearward, along with not having the weight of the front motor), with lower CoG and Polar Moment of Inertia than any mid-engined supercar.

With my Nissan Leaf I discovered the real truth of electric car performance, which is that in an EV you can (and probably will - in the leaf had to, but from the lights (with the element of surprise!) it caused more than its fair share of upsets) regularly make use of ALL of the performance that the car has to offer. In a 330i, a Giulia Veloce or even the IS300h of course you will sometimes... but when it comes to the 6th roundabout of the day when you've got a bit of a headache and you just can't deal with the noise (and let's face it, the days of sonorous N/A i6 and V8s are gone, and a turbo 4 with synthesised noise is just noise), vibration and harsh shifts that come with driving a car hard you're simply not going to do it. With an EV there's never any turbo lag, no waiting for the car to "wake up" and no noise to put you off enjoying the actual drive.

The other interesting thing that I found with the Model 3 is that when you sit in it it immediately makes everything else feel totally out of date. Even the G20 3 series (which launched on sale almost 2 years AFTER the Model 3) feels very cramped and old-skool by comparison. Pictures and videos simply do NOT convey what it's like to sit in the back seat of the model 3 with the sky open above you. How simple it is not having to search through 37 different menus with 5 different ways of doing something to change something - there's one place, one way. The ventilation system in the 3 is a masterpiece. Even if you don't think it's the car for you, at least go and have a sit in (and if you can, drive) one.

You have got me looking at the model 3 now T.T

wp

Jayw13702 · August 5, 2019

Interesting how people rave about Lexus customer service, personally that’s the reason I won’t buy another Lexus.

I was looking to trade the IS300h in for a GS300h later this year, after destining with Lexus customer services directly and the dealers in Devon I sadly won’t.

And strangely when I talk to the Toyota guys (who are on the same site) they have a totally different attitude, and always have done. However there isn’t a Toyota that will offer the space or “prestige” (I’ll use that term loosely) sadly
So it looks like M/Benz or BMW for me

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

Casa1862 · August 6, 2019

23 hours ago, Jayw13702 said:

Interesting how people rave about Lexus customer service, personally that’s the reason I won’t buy another Lexus.

I was looking to trade the IS300h in for a GS300h later this year, after destining with Lexus customer services directly and the dealers in Devon I sadly won’t.

And strangely when I talk to the Toyota guys (who are on the same site) they have a totally different attitude, and always have done. However there isn’t a Toyota that will offer the space or “prestige” (I’ll use that term loosely) sadly
So it looks like M/Benz or BMW for me

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, when consider how expensive Lexus are with 1 year 10k intervals there service should be first rate. Looking at my service bills, the Lexus has cost almost twice as much as the BMW 3 series we had over a 4 year/40k period. No repairs needed on the 3 series but the Lexus needed tyres replacing due to uneven wear on the inside edge.

Casa1862 · August 6, 2019

On 8/1/2019 at 8:32 AM, i-s said:

Well, if you're looking at a year-old 540i then surely it's worth a look at a used facelift GS450h? We felt the Lexus was a far better car when we looked, because BMW's nickel-and-dime on the options list means you end up with stupid stuff like a 530i with a manual passenger seat. Our GS is returning nearly 40mpg - good luck seeing north of 30 from a 540i, and much nicer build etc.

This one is a rather tasty option, in perfect specification: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905238253618

Thanks for the suggestion but I think way better cars available for £33.5k. Its' looking dated and I think poor value, been offered a 2019 540i for similar money with a 3 years warranty. After 3 years use I'm certain a 3 year 540i or 530i will be worth a lot more than a 6 year old Lexus GS.