Tyre and pad wear

[Glover]

I've increased my mileage recently so my annual service, at which point I've usually done 10,000 miles, became a 10,000 mile service after 6 months!  Just a standard service and there were no surprises, which seems fairly common amongst Lexus owners!  But what did pleasantly surprise me was that at just over 66,000 miles the front pads have 8mm left and the rears have 7.65mm.  These are the original items.

The Cross Climates, are also still doing very well; the fronts have 3.5mm left and the rears 5.5mm.  I can't find the receipt for them but I have a feeling I had them fitted in autumn 2016 with somewhere between 28 - 29,000 on the clock so the wear has been excellent especially considering the RX's power and weight.  I'll change the fronts when they get down to 3.0mm at which point I expect they will have done in the region of 40,000 miles.  I'd definitely recommend them to anyone looking for new tyres.

Finally is my experience with pad and tyre wear fairly common?

 

[Herbie]

Tyre wear, not too sure. Currently got about 15,000 miles on my Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen 2 tyres and plenty of tread left.

Pad wear is normal. If you're driving your hybrid correctly most of the braking is done regeneratively, with the hydraulic brakes only coming into play when you've almost stopped or when the traction Battery is full and can accept no more charge.

[olliesgrandad]

8 hours ago, Glover said:

I've increased my mileage recently so my annual service, at which point I've usually done 10,000 miles, became a 10,000 mile service after 6 months!  Just a standard service and there were no surprises, which seems fairly common amongst Lexus owners!  But what did pleasantly surprise me was that at just over 66,000 miles the front pads have 8mm left and the rears have 7.65mm.  These are the original items.

 

 

I had my front discs and pads changed at 50000 miles. The discs so were at 32mm (I'm told 31 is absolute minimum)  so the discs were the wear issue and the pads at 4mm. I was pleased with that as when I bought the car at 26000 miles there was quite a noticeable step in the edge of the discs.

 

[Glover]

Presumably given the step on the discs the previous owner was very heavy on the brakes Les. 

I expected rear pad wear to be lighter and rear tyre wear on a FWD car (which the RX is most of the time) is usually quite good.  But what has amazed me is the wear of the items at the front.  I change tyres at 3.00m  but if I went down to the legal minimum (which I would never do or recommend) on the basis of wear so far and the fact that tyres wear quicker as they get closer to the limit (or so I understand) it looks like the Cross Climates would last for approx. 50,000 miles.

As I've only used 33% of the front pads does this mean that they could potentially last for well over 100K?  And on this basis having used approx. 15% (very rough calculation!) of the rear pads they will outlive the car

[Burroo 67]

I had to replace the 2 front discs and pads for this years MOT in May when the 400H had 106K miles on it.  Not sure what the previous owner(s) wear was though. 

It's going in for the 110K service on Monday (to my usual mechanic) and I have been told that one of the rear discs has abnormal wear so it looks like that will have to be replaced soon as well as one of the rear brake pipes.  I must admit the car is costing me a lot more than i would have expected for a Lexus, I know most will say it's normal wear and tear but it all seems to be happening at the one time!!.

2 new rear tyres being fitted this afternoon and I've been told it could take £500-£600 to repair the air con, I'm not exactly made of money so the air con will have to wait I'm afraid.....

[Herbie]

3 hours ago, Burroo 67 said:

I've been told it could take £500-£600 to repair the air con, I'm not exactly made of money so the air con will have to wait I'm afraid.....

What's wrong with it Brian?

[Lydiamight]

If one of the rear discs is showing abnormal wear it could be that the slide pins in the callipers are sticking---a common problem. A Lexus specialist can easily remove the slide pins, clean and regrease, or if necessary replace the slide pins with new ones obtainable from eBay for around a fiver. If it is the slide pins sticking then a Lexus dealer will normally want you to replace the whole calliper assembly for some hundreds of pounds.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Lydiamight said:

A Lexus specialist can easily remove the slide pins, clean and regrease, or if necessary replace the slide pins with new ones

As can any trusted and reputable garage/mechanic.

[Lager shandy]

It's a fairly simple job jack axle stands Remove wheels two spanners unbolt calipers hang up on shock spring with cable tie pull out sliding pins clean out hole with rolled up emery paper and brake cleaner lubricate new pins ( use copper slip )slide in with new rubber boots refit cleaned up pads and calliper housing reverse fit torque up wheels ,fit new disc after strip out including calliper carrier if your taking your time one side at a time on a nice sunny day a easy little job .

[Lager shandy]

Of course this is assuming lexus driver like to do there own repairs 

[Herbie]

27 minutes ago, Lager shandy said:

Of course this is assuming lexus driver like to do there own repairs 

I always did my own repairs until a back injury made it impossible for me ☹️

[rayaans]

My 2012 RX had 55k miles on it with 40% remaining on the pads! I wonder if someone could eek out 70k miles on one set of brakes lol

[Glover]

I've only got 3,500 to go to 70,000 and I've got 66% of the fronts and almost 85% of the rears so unless I totally change my driving style I should make it:-)

[Burroo 67]

Hi Herbie,

My mechanic says there is a fault showing up on the diagnostic equipment.  Probably caused by a leaking air con condenser, which is obviously expensive to repair/replace as the front bumper has to come off to access it.  So I'm told anyway.

As an update to the rear brakes …..when the wheels were off to get the tyres fitted I had a good look at the discs.  The O/S disc was completely rusted over, in other words the brake had not worked for some time.  The N/S disc was quite rutted so it looks like an expensive 110K service for me...

Car is costing me a bloomin' fortune, but hopefully once the work is completed tomorrow I can look forward to a period of trouble free motoring in the car that I love to bits!!

[Lydiamight]

As I said in my earlier post that is almost certainly caused by the rear calliper slide pins being seized. They can be removed, clean and greased rather than buying complete new caliper assemblies.

A set of good quality rear discs and pads (Ferodo) can be bought off Ebay for around £90

 

[Lost it]

On 8/2/2019 at 5:48 PM, Lager shandy said:

It's a fairly simple job jack axle stands Remove wheels two spanners unbolt calipers hang up on shock spring with cable tie pull out sliding pins clean out hole with rolled up emery paper and brake cleaner lubricate new pins ( use copper slip )slide in with new rubber boots refit cleaned up pads and calliper housing reverse fit torque up wheels ,fit new disc after strip out including calliper carrier if your taking your time one side at a time on a nice sunny day a easy little job .

Do NOT ever ever EVER let copper slip or it's ilk anywhere near brakes. It's an anti seize compound. And that's all it should ever be used for. It's the sort of "bodge" kwikballsup fitters use.

If you use it on brakes you will get either excessive wear on the pins, or the parts they slide in, or the gaiters over the pins will swell and cease to seal. Then either dirt gets in and causes the pads to stick, or dirt gets in and there is even more wear in the sliding assemblies.

If it gets anywhere near the piston seals you can expect sticking pistons to be the next problem you get. Copper and Aluminium do not mix at all well. Neither do piston seals, piston gaskets or even the pistons get on well with copper based lubricants. If it's on the pistons eventually it will wear the bores out. Given time.

If you manage to get it on the rear of the pads and the rear backing plate has ventilation apertures, you have just introduced a very abrasive material to your discs and calipers. And no, it won't help the car to stop. BTW cooling pad surfaces using this method is common on the likes of brembo brakes.

It works, doing it's specified task, by introducing very small particles of copper to the spaces between threads so preventing a mechanical joint that comprises of the thread in the nut/bolt/stud from either being clamped correctly, or even torqued to the correct value. It uses this "gap" to make sure the thing will come undone. So defintely don't EVER use it for wheel studs, the bolts that hold the caliper frames on, or indeed anything that you would prefer to stay tightened to torque.

It is NOT and has never been designed for use around brake systems.

That's what Red Rubber grease is for.

[C Mclean]

15 minutes ago, Lost it said:

Do NOT ever ever EVER let copper slip or it's ilk anywhere near brakes. It's an anti seize compound. And that's all it should ever be used for. It's the sort of "bodge" kwikballsup fitters use.

If you use it on brakes you will get either excessive wear on the pins, or the parts they slide in, or the gaiters over the pins will swell and cease to seal. Then either dirt gets in and causes the pads to stick, or dirt gets in and there is even more wear in the sliding assemblies.

If it gets anywhere near the piston seals you can expect sticking pistons to be the next problem you get. Copper and Aluminium do not mix at all well. Neither do piston seals, piston gaskets or even the pistons get on well with copper based lubricants. If it's on the pistons eventually it will wear the bores out. Given time.

If you manage to get it on the rear of the pads and the rear backing plate has ventilation apertures, you have just introduced a very abrasive material to your discs and calipers. And no, it won't help the car to stop. BTW cooling pad surfaces using this method is common on the likes of Brembo brakes.

It works, doing it's specified task, by introducing very small particles of copper to the spaces between threads so preventing a mechanical joint that comprises of the thread in the nut/bolt/stud from either being clamped correctly, or even torqued to the correct value. It uses this "gap" to make sure the thing will come undone. So defintely don't EVER use it for wheel studs, the bolts that hold the caliper frames on, or indeed anything that you would prefer to stay tightened to torque.

It is NOT and has never been designed for use around brake systems.

That's what Red Rubber grease is for.

If that’s the case, then why do many pad/shoe manufacturers supply small sachets of copper based lubricant with pad/shoe kits. The motor trade in general has been using copper based grease for decades and continue to do so. If there was an issue with this, then surely the public, vehicle manufacturers and various government bodies would object just in case legal vultures got involved. As far as it goes with calliper slide pins, yes, the red grease is the correct one to use.

[Lost it]

Look again. Those little packs don't contain Copper based grease. If it's supplied by the pad manufacturer it's either a Silicon based grease, or a rubber grease. Certainly won't be copperslip. Any half decent motor factors will happily sell you little sachets of the right lube to use. If they know what they are about.

If you buy "supermarket" pads usually they don't come with any lube, or slides, or indeed anything. But people have been watching the likes of You tube etc. and listening to idiots that tell them to use copper grease that it's probably too late now. By "Supermarket" pads I mean the cheap stuff sold by the likes of Euro Car parts. Again there's a minimum standard where  brake pads are concerned, as long as this E number is stamped on the pad somewhere they can sell them. There are good pads, there are budget pads. There aren't "Good Budget" pads.

And the people selling Copper grease don't actually know what you are going to use it for. There is no legal reason for them to put on the container "shouldn't be used on brake components" so why do something that will potentially lose them sales and money?

Have a look on just about any site you like where engineers, proper ones with letters after their names (not Hotpoint) and you won't see them recommending copper based lubricants on brake components. If you ever go to a race track meeting ask the professional mechanics.

Take any brand new vehicle apart and guess what you won't find on the brakes?

Personally I believe that now, more than at any other time you really do get what you pay for. And sadly "I've always done it that way" is not an excuse for doing it wrong in the first place.

You wrote "then surely the public, vehicle manufacturers and various government bodies would object just in case legal vultures got involved". The answer is no, because we aren't quite yet in that level of nanny state where the Government who frankly know nothing about anything except maybe what their pension will be worth are telling us what we can and cannot do. And like I said, there's no regulations that say a grease manufacturer has to put "Warning this stuff might be slippery" on the tin. Yet.

[C Mclean]

Well we’ll just have to have a different outlook on this matter, but I’m going with decades in and around vehicle maintenance in multiple countries throughout the world. But remember, letters after your name doesn’t mean that your the brightest bulb in the fitting, just look at the political spectrum. 🤪🤪

[PCM]

1 hour ago, Lost it said:

Do NOT ever ever EVER let copper slip or it's ilk anywhere near brakes. It's an anti seize compound. And that's all it should ever be used for. It's the sort of "bodge" kwikballsup fitters use.

If you use it on brakes you will get either excessive wear on the pins, or the parts they slide in, or the gaiters over the pins will swell and cease to seal. Then either dirt gets in and causes the pads to stick, or dirt gets in and there is even more wear in the sliding assemblies.

If it gets anywhere near the piston seals you can expect sticking pistons to be the next problem you get. Copper and Aluminium do not mix at all well. Neither do piston seals, piston gaskets or even the pistons get on well with copper based lubricants. If it's on the pistons eventually it will wear the bores out. Given time.

If you manage to get it on the rear of the pads and the rear backing plate has ventilation apertures, you have just introduced a very abrasive material to your discs and calipers. And no, it won't help the car to stop. BTW cooling pad surfaces using this method is common on the likes of Brembo brakes.

It works, doing it's specified task, by introducing very small particles of copper to the spaces between threads so preventing a mechanical joint that comprises of the thread in the nut/bolt/stud from either being clamped correctly, or even torqued to the correct value. It uses this "gap" to make sure the thing will come undone. So defintely don't EVER use it for wheel studs, the bolts that hold the caliper frames on, or indeed anything that you would prefer to stay tightened to torque.

It is NOT and has never been designed for use around brake systems.

That's what Red Rubber grease is for.

Just to clarify - what should the sliders be lubricated with?

[Lager shandy]

I stand corrected the use of copper slip is a out dated concept with modern brakes now a ceramic type grease is recommended if anything at all . It's to do with modern pads have a cushion pad fitted to them which grips the piston etc .

[Burroo 67]

Well finally got the car back from my mechanic.  £510 for the rear breaks and a minor service.  That better be the last I spend on this thing for the next year, other than petrol