In car entertainment

[Lost it]

Ok, I know I have an "old" RX, a 2000 model no less, and it has the normal radio/tape player/Cd changer in the glove box set up. But "poverty spec", no controls on the steering wheel.

And I cannot find any info on what the actual "abilities" of this unit's amplifier are, I'm pretty much stuck with it because the a/c panel is part of the fascia, so where do I go to find out what would be the best option door speaker wise?

What I'd ideally want to know is the RMS output, fed into how many ohms, 2, 3, 4, 8 ohms? So that I can source speakers with the same impedance.If I decide to go the "booster amp" route then that's another option.

The door speakers are terrible, probably because they are 20 years old... They look like cardboard cheap'n'nasty 10 bob specials which is a bit of a surprise given the car quality.

[Herbie]

Take one of the existing speakers out and, using a multimeter set on a low Ohms range (200 or less - depends what your individual meter ranges are), test the DC resistance of the speaker.

DC resistance isn't the exact equivalent of impedance but it's a close enough approximation. A DC resistance of, say, 3.6 ohms means that the speaker has a 4 ohm impedance; anything from 7.0 ohms would mean an 8 ohm impedance.

Once you know the impedance (it may even be marked on the speaker) then almost any speaker that will physically fit will do. I've no idea how you'd find out the power output of the amp and physical speaker size isn't a brilliant indication of how much power it can handle, but if you find that two speakers will physically fit, just get the one with the higher power rating.

[m4rkw]

@Lost it my Harrier is poverty spec too and the speakers you took out of your doors sound very much like the ones I took out of mine a while ago, they look like they're not even real speakers right? Like badly made cardboard models? The fronts in my were 6x9.

Anyway I replaced them with Morel Virtus 602, a JL audio amp and Kenwood head unit and it sounds glorious now.

[Lost it]

Look a lot like these things, definitely not ovals.

Pretty much 3 ohms... Which is a strange figure. If I go to 4 ohms I lose volume, But I should just about get away with it.

 

 

[Lost it]

14 minutes ago, m4rkw said:

@Lost it my Harrier is poverty spec too and the speakers you took out of your doors sound very much like the ones I took out of mine a while ago, they look like they're not even real speakers right? Like badly made cardboard models? The fronts in my were 6x9.

Anyway I replaced them with Morel Virtus 602, a JL audio amp and Kenwood head unit and it sounds glorious now.

I take it the Harrier doesn't have the combined head unit with tape, cd and radio with a/c panel combined then. Because I'd love to do that.

There are other options. A small "booster" amp, maybe a little active sub somewhere to give it a bit of thump. I don't know what I was expecting if I'm honest, I thought the speakers would be much better than what is in here though.

[m4rkw]

1 minute ago, Lost it said:

I take it the Harrier doesn't have the combined head unit with tape, cd and radio with a/c panel combined then. Because I'd love to do that.

There are other options. A small "booster" amp, maybe a little active sub somewhere to give it a bit of thump. I don't know what I was expecting if I'm honest, I thought the speakers would be much better than what is in here though.

It does, there's an aftermarket fascia you can get to put an aftermarket stereo in.

[m4rkw]

https://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/ct23lx01-lexus-rx300-rx350-double-din-stereo-fascia-panel-adaptor-silver.html?search=lexus rx

[Lost it]

What happens to the display on the dash? And the controls for the a/c?

 

Must look into this.

[m4rkw]

On mine all that stuff is above the stereo. Yours is an older year model so may be different.

[m4rkw]

This is how mine is laid out: 

 

The stereo stuff is all lower down, the HVAC stuff above it. So the stereo can be replaced using the new fascia and there's no loss of functionality.

[Mr Vlad]

Firstly remove the speaker and inspect it. It probably will be a paper cone type. There should be speaker adapter plates available. Try Connects2. I can't remember there being 3ohm speakers available in late 90's early 2000's. 2ohm and 4ohm yes as I used them.

Test your speakers with another source. Maybe your amp is playing up. If speakers duff then look up a replacement. 

To add an amp and sub there's no need to get a different head unit. Use a high to low pass adapter  (forget what it's called) but you splice into the wires behind the head unit and connect to the convertor. From the convertor there will be 2 phono jack sockets. Run lead to rear of car (or wherever you want your new amp) and connect to amp. Run power cable to amp. From amp run speaker cable back to rear of head unit and connect to the wires left after splicing. From there the signal will go to the speakers. From the amp you could run a sub.

[Lost it]

Digital Signal Processor thing was the option I was lookimng at if the speakers don't do the trick. I used one on my S type, it had an old style Ipod adapter lead, was made by Sony. I think it was only rated at 32 Watts RMS but it was more than enough compared to the 9 watts the Jaguar came from the factory with.

The speakers are fine at low volume but are completely unable to reproduce bass which is usually a sign that the head unit doesn't have the grunt needed. There's plenty of space in the rear where I could stick an active sub if that's what I have to do. Definitely look like the ones in the video too, so when i decide what units to put in that's what I'll go for.

 

My dash looks like this, I think the little things in the corner of the top of the dash are supposed to be tweeters.

But the ICE unit has the controls for a/c, temperature, cd, radio etc. built in by the looks of it so the choices regarding changing it are few. Sorry I'm on my bike today so can't take a better shot of it.

 

[Mr Vlad]

What I was on about was a Line Out Convertor. Size of a box of matches. Using one of these means no need to change head unit and possibly spoil functionality. 

Yes looks like the tweeters are top of dash but they could be swapped easily.

[Lost it]

Went to see my "man" at Canon Audio up in Waterlooville, I sought his advice with my S type because it just didn't have the grunt even with decent mid range new to the car Alpine 6 x 4's in it and he pointed me in the right direction.

Basically he says Lexus set their systems to be very "bright" sounding and so the ICE set up itself leans that way. Whipped a door panel off and he says there's nothing really wrong with the units in the doors, they may look old spec and very basic but apparently they are reasonably decent Poineer units, generally he said you might think it sounds a little thin, but MP3's weren't really a thing when the car came out. And they aren't noisy or damaged else he would have heard it.

So. He has suggested I add an active sub, place it inside the load area and take the "signal" off the amplifier under the floor behind the rear seats for the active sub and go from there. Basically let the tweeters and door speakers do the high and mid, and as bass is Mono, a 120 watt active sub should do wonders for the sound.

So he's installing it next Saturday, £200 including the sub.

[Mr Vlad]

That's good news. Seems to be a good bloke. Out of interest what sub is he going to install? I do have a concern tho that if the door speakers can't reproduce lows down to say 300hz then you'll have a sonic hole in the system unless the sun will reproduce up to 500hz or so.

[Lost it]

Same one as I have in my S type. Comes with a "remote" so set the sensitivity and frequency where bass is passed to the sub.

 

It also has a piece of "stuffing" that you can remove from the bottom of the box but that makes it very wooly to my ears as installed in the S type. And as the RX is basically an estate with not as large a loading (S type one being in the boot which is effectively a sealed enclosure) I'm curious if it will be able to do the job.

My X type Estate has an "Alpine" premium sound set up that has a sub in the offside storage compartment and that manages to make the sound quite pleasant, not so much bass that it will blow the wonmdows off but it also has a feature where you can set the balance for who is sat in the car and what they are listening to. My RX kind of has that ability too, and I presume the bass control will need to be dialed down to allow the sub to do it's job. Well he's the man who fits these things all the time so I'll rely on his advice.

Have to consider that my working life, on or about a coal face for 13 years, working on Volvo heavy plant, ran my own garage, ride motorbikes etc. has pretty much destroyed the top end ability of my ears, which is why I sold my Quad ESL's and bi amped Quad 11 valve amps some time ago... So the sound might be more than adequate for someone with reasonable hearing, but I need to cater to my needs as I'm the main driver.

Only requires a 10 amp feed too. The guy works at the address below, doesn't have a website, I believe his work comes via word of mouth which is the best advert you can get. I'm not related in any way, just so everyone knows, but if I find somewhere that gives me good service, I will pass it on. In fact I've just realised I don't even know the guys name.

Cannon Car Audio

5.031 Google reviews

Car stereo store in England

Address: Unit 1, Kinches Farm, Roads Hill, Waterlooville PO8 0TG

And the unit he's going to fit:

https://www.alpine.co.uk/p/Products/SingleView/SWE-815

[Mr Vlad]

Wow you had Quad ESL's? Damn good pieces of kit and with Quad 11's. I've not seen those in decades. I have Quad 44 and 405 2's driving Kef Reference 101's with a custom made sub from the original Wilmslow Audio. Mind you they're all going be sold soon as I don't listen to music indoors like I used to.

Ha ha you've got the Alpine sub I was going to strongly recommend. I have one of those. Had it in my previous model and boy did it make some serious bass and for such a small unit. Unbelievable. I love that sub. Worth 3 times the price. 

[Lost it]

Well that was in interesting week... I usually use my Honda VFR for work, but detected a bit of play in the front wheel bearings (play equals brake pad knock in when cornering, equals a "long brake lever". So a "long brake lever" tells me I have a wheel bearing isue. 25,000 miles. Shocking) so Friday I took the RX. And managed to blow the n/s front speaker judging by the buzzing.

So cancelled the Sub box for a week, bought a set of Alpine SPG-17C2's to install. Then I'll review the sub idea.

I thought I could hear an imbalance...

[Mr Vlad]

Oh I miss my biking days. As for cancelling the sub fitment I'll bet you'll re book within a week or two. That Alpine speaker, to me, is a cheap piece of tat. Plus I'm not a lover of coax speakers. I'll be intrigued by your review. 

[Lost it]

Well the "tat" speakers are far above the rather old Pioneer things that sound like the sea is rushing in when they try to reproduce any kind of bass note... The old speakers are lets face it 20 years old, probably older and are just tired. I have no idea how they have been used in the 120,000 miles the car has done so it's probably for the best that I changed them for new anyway.

So the "tat" speakers were so much better I bought another pair for the rear doors, I need to get the MDF out to make four suitable spacers though, they sit way too far back in the doors at the moment.

And the Sub went in today. I only cancelled it for a week. Glad I "farmed it out" because it isn't a quick job. Basically boot area stripped, rear seats pushed forward as far as they will go, find a power feed from the glovebox (I think tyhe sub only needs a 10 amp supply?) take the trim out, feed the cables, find a "signal" from the rear speakers at the amp under the cover behind the seats and then... Put it all back together. £250 well spent in my opinion, I mean bearing in mind my ears are pretty much stuffed for high end response, and the only "test" track I had was 1980's sub and bass off a CD, it sounds presentable. I meant to take my "War or the Worlds" CD with me because if anything tests a speaker set, it's that voice at the beginning followed by the opening track... But I only had it on my ipod thing so it was compromised anyway.

But the amount of stuff that has to come out, these cars are really screwed together well aren't they? Not one of the "push in" clips broke, not one. Try doing that with any european car...

Then a bit of tweaking over the next few days with the rotary cross over remote thingy and I'll be a happy bunny.

[Mr Vlad]

Well I can believe your new speakers sound tons better considering the age of the old ones. Blimey that looked a long arduous job to fit the sub. To test the sub tho your choice of war of the world's I wouldn't consider a test. Any of the drum and bass shows from Radio 1 or Bach's Toccata and Fugue album. Within the first 45 seconds T and F shows  a good sub or not. 

[Lost it]

Toccata and Fugue should only ever be played on a Church Pipe organ. It's what wifey and I had for our "Leaving the aisle" music on our wedding day. I was trying to walk so slowly down the aisle... It's on my ipod thing, but even my S type with it's optimised system doesn't make a good fist of it. To many panels in the car vibrate in symphony. My XJ6 with it's Premium Sound and sub does a good job, just can't produce the volume needed to do it justice.

I even built a pair of horn loaded speakers from a kit design in one of the Hifi Magazines of the day to make sure that I could hit the 25hz bass note... It could but it used to make the walls bang for some reason.

No, I have to disagree. To get that voice timbre right, you need a sound system that doesn't distort voice frequencies. After all that's pretty much all most of us listen to. From Radio 4 at 05;00 onwards, whatever "conditioning" BBC do to the announcer's voice seems to be minimal, whereas I find the boosted thump and compressed everything else on Radio 1's offerings these days to really destroy any enjoyment I could possibly get. And their habit of playing some "lift music" low level thump all the time they are trying to talk just winds me up.

You shouldn't listen to Radio One in the morning. They set the pace and beat of the music to make drivers on edge, to try and make them rush into work. It's subliminal but turning it off and listening to Radio 4 removes that feeling. They mess with your head and it's not realised.

And the "pop-classical" first track on War of the Worlds gives any system a good work out too. 

But my favourite listening music runs from Roy Orbison to Queen to T Rex to Disturbed to ELO to Pink to George Michael to Erasure so there's really not much I don't listen to. I even listen to Abba sometimes... Can't believe I just admitted to that.

[Mr Vlad]

Nice one lol. Yeah I have T and F on Spotify best quality download and yes on a wonderful sounding pipe organ. In my previous mondeo I fitted dynamat to every panel I could get to. Infinity reference speakers in the front rears standard powered by a Rockford Fosgate 2x 150w amp (actual 172w per channel according to its birth certificate) with the SW815 in the boot. T and F sounded superb and yes oh so loud (wife hates it so loud lol). Radio 1's DnB show is well produced. I know my hearing isn't anywhere as good as it used to be so that's why I go for power. My music is predominantly metal but in recent years I've mellowed to accept softer type music. I seem to really enjoy 80's music which is weird as I hated it then lol.

I think maybe your next step is to get a power amp to drive the door speakers as that'll be better than what's in the car now and it'll bring the speakers to life.

[Lost it]

I was a little sutrprised it had an amp under a plate in theback if I'm honest. Looks like there's plenty of space under there for another amp, but volume doesn't seem to be an issue. The guy at Canon Audio said he wasn't sure if the sub would be able to provide the "thump" I need with such a large space to fill (my Lexus is the first model, the estate proper one) but it does seem to be head and shoulders above the car as it was without a sub.

You know, if I used it every day I'd go the whole hog, but I live on Hayling and work at Watfiord at the moment so I need to use the bike else I don't get home until silly oclock. Maybe when I get a job closer to home.

Another strange thing about the Lexus.. I find when I drive it I'm in no rush, it's a relaxing vehicle to drive. I like that.

[Mr Vlad]

Yeah I know what you mean about the drive of the RX.I miss mine and as soon as finances allow I'll be getting another one. The SW815 is a pocket rocket. For loud sub take the insert out at the bottom. This turns it into a ported box. If you want a tighter sub then leave the insert in. Leaving it in also helps it produce under 25hz. The mondeo boot is similar size to the RX and the sub will fill the car and let you know where the rattles are in your car. That's why I used a good few rolls of dynamat. 

I too woulduse my bike to commute if I had one but I've had my halcyon days in the 80's. Last bike was the superb FJ1200. I miss that and the yam 2 strokes I had hee hee hee.