So the "Lexus Full service history" is garbage?

Lost it · June 10, 2019

Had a busy day yesterday.

You know there's "Servicing" as done by Dealers and there's "Servicing" as done by someone who owns the vehicle and wants it to last?

Well. I have a MY2000 Lexus RX300 and it has all the service stamps until 31/01/2017. And the Lexus service schedule is very specific.So it looks like even Lexus don't do what is on the service schedule. I know someone will say "they only do what they are asked to do" but I have the service stamps and receipts. And if someone has paid over £1k for a service, you would expect it to be done. By the book.

So the Trans oil should have been replaced at 60,000 miles and again at 120,000 miles, but the lasts stamp was at 111,000. Fair enough.

The Transfer box fluid? The same. The rear axle? At least twice.

So why was the ATF black and the magnets within the sump completely covered in metal filings? Well, because it clearly was never done. Not even by the Lexus main dealer. And I mean black. At least it didn't smell burned. Date stamp on the filter was 1999. I was sorely tempted to only do a partial oil change in case I damage the box flushing all the junk out in one go, but the thought of it circulating even more loose junk in there didn't leave me with a cozy feeling. I can always rebuild it if it fails.

The Engine oil?

Like water. And Black. Did have a genuine Toyota oil filter though.

The rear diff oil? Yup. Old.

So I flushed the best part of 18 litres of Dexron 3/Toyota compatible synthetic ATF through an auto box that holds 5 litres until it came out at least looking dark red rather than brown, used that much because I only had 22 litres total and still needed to do the power steering. No point just dropping the sump and replacing the gungy oil that drained out, there's still a torque converter and ATF cooler rad full of the old stuff, so I popped the "return to tank" pipe off the cooler and ran the motor until a litre and a half came out, then topped up, etc. etc. until it was coming out fairly clean.

What to do with all that "waste" Dexron? Shame really, it was brand new when it went in... Wonder if I can burn it in the X type derv?

Did the brake pads front and rear too. Long and busy day, I hope the car appreciates it, but I think I'll need to do another gearbox flush before winter just to keep me happy.

But at least I now know it has been serviced properly.

Malc · June 10, 2019

so Lexus really don't bother doing the scheduled servicing then ........... might as well have taken it to a trusted independent who would have done all the work and at half the price or less I guess

Malc

rich1068 · June 10, 2019

If it clearly says on the invoices that XYZ have been done and it's obvious that they haven't then that's an issue (for the previous owner?). However, yes the service schedule is specific but ultimately it's up to the previous owner/s. The car is going to go in for oil and filter minimum but these larger items are still personal choice but the book still gets a stamp. The owner might need new pads and discs but because of that leaves the rear diff because of £££.

Good that you know what you're doing and like you I view FDSH with extreme caution and only consider it when I've studied previous invoices and/or spoken to the dealer. They're usually happy to discuss a car they've maintained.

Lost it · June 10, 2019

I'll look more closely at the invoice tonight. Just to be certain. But it was a very long list of items and quantities. I dunno, what would the labour rates have been like in 1998? Wish I'd photgraphed it now before I came in to work.

The other "option" I guess is that the box is FUBAR. Except it drives as smooth as I would expect.

Lost it · June 10, 2019

Kinda need to change my profile message too...

rich1068 · June 10, 2019

Good that you're staying with the more *ahem* mature Lexus models though :thumbsup:

On my RX 400h I saw some large-ish invoices that previous owners had paid but some included items that just didn't need doing. I think at one point a previous owner had paid for a new air filter 2 or 3 years running.

m4rkw · June 10, 2019

6 hours ago, Lost it said:

So I flushed the best part of 18 litres of Dexron 3/Toyota compatible synthetic ATF through an auto box that holds 5 litres until it came out at least looking dark red rather than brown, used that much because I only had 22 litres total and still needed to do the power steering. No point just dropping the sump and replacing the gungy oil that drained out, there's still a torque converter and ATF cooler rad full of the old stuff, so I popped the "return to tank" pipe off the cooler and ran the motor until a litre and a half came out, then topped up, etc. etc. until it was coming out fairly clean.

I was under the impression that flushing in this manner wasn't a good idea and that a drain+fill service was the way to go. http://agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/168

Malc · June 10, 2019

3 hours ago, rich1068 said:

I think at one point a previous owner had paid for a new air filter 2 or 3 years running.

that sounds positive maintenance then at least, mine NEEDS changing every year at the service / MOT and usually 12/15k miles

Malc

steve2006 · June 10, 2019

I think we can all agree that when Lexus perform a service they don’t seem to cover certain aspects.

Take a brake service....Lexus will replace the pads and discs but from previous posts regarding seized callipers we know that they tend not to remove the slide pins, clean them and grease them as part of this service, this is something I do everytime with my own DIY services.

The result is you now need new callipers when a dab of grease would probably have saved them.

Barry14UK · June 11, 2019

11 hours ago, Malc said:

that sounds positive maintenance then at least, mine NEEDS changing every year at the service / MOT and usually 12/15k miles

Malc

As well as mileage affecting the condition, how contaminated the air is can also play a part such as fine sand particles if you live in coastal ares or there is a lot of nearby demolition. I lived near a cement works for a time years ago and this required a more frequent air filter service (It was an oil bath type so the bath had to be emptied, wiped out and refilled with oil and the metal strainer cleaned and refitted.)

I got my 4 year old RX450h from Lexus Cheltenham. It came with a stamped book for all the previous services but no invoices showing what had actually been done. I only hope that everything that should have been done was done.

rich1068 · June 11, 2019

5 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

I got my 4 year old RX450h from Lexus Cheltenham. It came with a stamped book for all the previous services but no invoices showing what had actually been done. I only hope that everything that should have been done was done.

No harm in asking the dealer. As mentioned, I've done it more than once. Nice and friendly over the phone, obviously not wanting names, personal information etc etc. Not too familiar with the 450h but at 4 years old there can't be many "extras" other than brake fluid change? If the car was older, I'd got the stamps but no invoices and couldn't get details from a dealer I'd assume none of the big items had been done.

Lost it · June 11, 2019

23 hours ago, m4rkw said:

I was under the impression that flushing in this manner wasn't a good idea and that a drain+fill service was the way to go. http://agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/168

Well, depends who you talk to. There's a theory that you might dislodge some "dirt" that was helping the gearbox work, but to my mind that's similar to expecting sand to smooth valve orifices. In other words, that theory is telling anyone with an Auto box to never change the fluid completely. Well, the ZF box in my jaguarXJ6 has to be flushed by machine to do that properly, and I wouldn't argue with ZF. I can't see Aisin saying it's a good idea to leave grimy fluid in there either. But it's worth a look at their website I guess.

But as I was changing the filter anyway...

And I'd argue if the ATF that filthy, it's not going to be clean fluid that will finally kill it. It won't be "dirty fluid" that's making the box work. It will be dirty fluid that is making it run hotter than it should? And if it's that dirty and the filter is clogged, then the gearbox oil pump will also be struggling to keep everything pressurised you would think.

I didn't see any sign of a "bypass" system on the old filter, but I spent about 15 minutes cleaning it with Brake cleaner and it was still coming out a dirty yellow/broan colour when I finished. I think it's fairly safe to say it's never been off.

Besides, I quite enjoy pulling things to pieces and rebuilding them. And if it does fail, I could look at putting a 5 speeder in it rather than the 3+over drive one that's in it at present.

Only nuts and bolts at the end of the day.

But I have to say, after the oil change, the actual gearbox performance is almost faultless. Even the kick down works now.

I have looked at the Service history. It does have a listing for 4 litres of ATF. So I guess they simply charged for it, or just dropped the sump? But the filter was definitely the original.

m4rkw · June 11, 2019

1 minute ago, Lost it said:

Well, depends who you talk to. There's a theory that you might dislodge some "dirt" that was helping the gearbox work, but to my mind that's similar to expecting sand to smooth valve orifices. In other words, that theory is telling anyone with an Auto box to never change the fluid completely. Well, the ZF box in my jaguarXJ6 has to be flushed by machine to do that properly, and I wouldn't argue with ZF. I can't see Aisin saying it's a good idea to leave grimy fluid in there either. But it's worth a look at their website I guess.

And I'd argue if it's that filthy, it's not going to be clean fluid that will finally kill it. I won't be "dirty fluid" that's making the box work. It will be dirty fluid that is making it run hotter than it should?

I think you're misunderstanding me. The article above, and the author of it with whom I talk to from time to time and who is a technician with many decades of experience, argues that a "flush" is a different thing from a proper drain+fill service. A proper drain+fill service including a new filter absolutely should be done regularly, but a "flush" using a machine or other means is not good for the transmission.

Lost it · June 11, 2019

Aye. Just read the article. I think a "Drain/refill/flush" is basically what I have done Mark. The amount of ATF i put through it, well I almost ran out of empty 5 litre bottles...

The "Flush using a machine" requires two filters. One to replace what's already in and one to put in once the system has been flushed, theory being anything removed by the flush through will be in the "new" filter so it's best to start afresh. As Jaguar quote astronomical prices for a new ZF trans for the XJ350 series, the cost of a couple of filters is money well wasted IMHO.

I've ordered another one for mine for the same reason. I'll run it for a couple of tank fills and then do it again. I probably won't get the same benefit a 2nd time shift quality wise though.

If you are even vaguely interested in the ZF box and how "proper" technicians do the gearbox oil flush, there's about two houyrs worth of articles and video's in here.. Always called them "Zed Eff" boxes. Not "Zee Eff" like this guy says it.

https://www.jaguarforum.com/showthread.php?t=84945

rich1068 · June 11, 2019

6 hours ago, Lost it said:

Always called them "Zed Eff" boxes. Not "Zee Eff" like this guy says it.

Same. Though for some reason I call the lump in my IS 300 a 2JZee.

Herbie · June 11, 2019

@rich1068 - I see that your profile says that you've got "many Saabs". Just wondering how many?

A mate of mine is one of the founder members of the Lancashire Saab Owners Club and has, if I remember correctly, six and a half Saabs!

The half is the rear half of a 900 I think, that he made into a trailer.

rich1068 · June 12, 2019

Just the two at the moment.

Recently had four. But it's as much a reference to how often I chop and change them as anything else.

Lost it · June 12, 2019

I think based on what I've found I ought to get a new set of plugs and check that the harder to get to rear bank has had new plugs in it at some point. I won't be holding my breath that they have beeen changed.