Hybrid vehicles

[davej62]

Although i do believe Lexus & Toyota lead the way with manufacturing hybrid vehicles, of which i drive a NX f sport, and certain Hybrid & electric vehicles are the future for a cleaner and sustainable environment, it is however dissapointing that other car manufacturers are slow in developing their own hybrid engines, Honda have maintained their share in the market and Mazda are catching up, so where the government raised concerns over co2 emmisions from diesel engines and rightly so, it appears tax bands are increasing for the dirtiest diesel engines, such as the Mercedes benz E class and S class, but good to learn range rover are developing a hybrid electric vehicle, and it seems follow the flock of sheep when there are so many range rover vehicles on the road, its good to know Lexus stands out from the crowd.   

[javadude]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:46 PM, davej62 said:

Although i do believe Lexus & Toyota lead the way with manufacturing hybrid vehicles, of which i drive a NX f sport, and certain Hybrid & electric vehicles are the future for a cleaner and sustainable environment, it is however dissapointing that other car manufacturers are slow in developing their own hybrid engines, Honda have maintained their share in the market and Mazda are catching up, so where the government raised concerns over co2 emmisions from diesel engines and rightly so, it appears tax bands are increasing for the dirtiest diesel engines, such as the Mercedes benz E class and S class, but good to learn range rover are developing a hybrid electric vehicle, and it seems follow the flock of sheep when there are so many range rover vehicles on the road, its good to know Lexus stands out from the crowd.   

Lexus is also starting to stand out from the crowd by not having a Battery electric vehicle. I find that sad and means that my next vehicle is likely to be not a Lexus (and I'm on my 4th). Many of their competitors either have one available to purchase now or in the near future. Nissan and Tesla have had EVs available for 7-8 years. I don't think I'd class Lexus as leading the way any more. More like falling further and further behind.

[Connoisseur]

+1 on disappointed with Lexus on not bringing out ev models, or if they are then the pace must be glacial.....Have just put a deposit down for a Polestar 2 ev due next year, done with regret but cannot wait anymore for Lexus to move on ev cars. By this time next year the vast majority of manufacturers will be offering ev models (Audi/BMW/Jaguar/Honda/Vauxhall/MG/Kia/Hyundai/Mercedes etc etc.) Lexus are imho being left behind and I can’t see how they will easily catch up. 

Lexus appear to have a cultural objection to ev cars,  backed up by the Lexus boss criticising evs and explaining how hybrid is still the way forward. But hybrid relies on carbon fuels which are not now seen as part of the long term future. OK Lexus did bin Diesels and they deserve kudos for that and making hybrids mainstream high end; a move that has carried them through for years, but things change, and the rate of change to ev is now high for high end makers.

I hope that they change their mind, but if not my dream of retiring early with a brand new RX ev is not going to happen. The Polestar 2 looks to be a fine car.......

[Herbie]

Maybe Lexus are developing an EV but taking it slowly to make it better for when it's released?

We all know that it's better for the environment and that we do need to (eventually) drop fossil fuels, but true electric transport is still many, many years away yet.

My wife and I drove from Preston, Lancashire, to Czech Republic and Poland for our holidays last year. First leg of the journey was Preston to Ostend, Belgium; second leg was Ostend to Rudesheim, Germany and third night was spent in Karlovy Vary, Czech, where we started our holidays proper.

Three nights and something like 1,000 miles where petrol stops, when needed, took about five minutes. Unless and until EVs can match the range and refill times of petrol cars they'll not take off in great numbers.

And that's not to mention the charging infrastructure. The electrical demand has seen the lights very close to going out at points over the last few years as old generating plant comes to end of life and drops off the grid with no new power stations being built to take their place.

We live in a cul-de-sac of 18 houses and if we all went EV, United Utilities would have to lay new cables to feed the street to cope with the extra demand. And what about those who live in high-rise flats? How do they charge their EVs?

Overnight electricity (Economy 7 or whatever) is only cheap because there's no great demand. Once more people start charging their EVs overnight the price will rocket.

Maybe Lexus are just playing the long game and will put out a 'proper' EV when these challenges are overcome.

[Connoisseur]

3 hours ago, Herbie said:

Maybe Lexus are developing an EV but taking it slowly to make it better for when it's released?

We all know that it's better for the environment and that we do need to (eventually) drop fossil fuels, but true electric transport is still many, many years away yet.

My wife and I drove from Preston, Lancashire, to Czech Republic and Poland for our holidays last year. First leg of the journey was Preston to Ostend, Belgium; second leg was Ostend to Rudesheim, Germany and third night was spent in Karlovy Vary, Czech, where we started our holidays proper.

Three nights and something like 1,000 miles where petrol stops, when needed, took about five minutes. Unless and until EVs can match the range and refill times of petrol cars they'll not take off in great numbers.

And that's not to mention the charging infrastructure. The electrical demand has seen the lights very close to going out at points over the last few years as old generating plant comes to end of life and drops off the grid with no new power stations being built to take their place.

We live in a cul-de-sac of 18 houses and if we all went EV, United Utilities would have to lay new cables to feed the street to cope with the extra demand. And what about those who live in high-rise flats? How do they charge their EVs?

Overnight electricity (Economy 7 or whatever) is only cheap because there's no great demand. Once more people start charging their EVs overnight the price will rocket.

Maybe Lexus are just playing the long game and will put out a 'proper' EV when these challenges are overcome.

Fair points well made 👍  though many of those challenges do not exist in the form often portrayed. Just today 150kwh chargers were launched by BP which will recharge the latest EVs in ten minutes. The National Grid has already confirmed that car charging does not now, and will not present insurmountable infrastructure issues. On street charging via bollards and lampposts is now a commercial reality and spreading fast, and the range offered by EVs is increasing exponentially as research investment increases the same. Cars on sale today from mainstream manufacturers offer 300 + mile ranges, much more than the average male bladder can cope with! Most cars used daily complete trips of less than 100 miles!

Hopefully your cul de sac of 18 houses won’t suffer much, if at all - all EV’s can, and often do, charge to full overnight on a 13amp plug.

But yes, this is a massive cultural and practical change, requiring behavioural shifts from nations just as the horse, canals and trams were all made redundant by other revolutions. Long trips to Europe (2000 miles+) are common place now, and will only increase.

I do hope Lexus are playing the long game, but all the evidence available says not. The UX will be EV’d in the future is all we know, along with the fact that the Lexus CE continues to speak out in public against the ev. Recently the CE of BMW was forced to apologise to shareholders for losing the lead on ev development and production. Yesterday BMW announced a JV with Jaguar on electric drivetrain production. 

Lexus isn’t quite at the King Canute stage, though I fear that the rising tide on the beach may be starting to tickle their toes 😉

 

[dutchie01]

Fully agree Dave, such a shame Lexus is so conservative. ( and for that Toyota as well).  Its China leading EV development at the moment and my guess is they will win in the end. Companies like Byton and Neo are a massive danger to Lexus as a whole. Backed by financial conglomerates they develop spectacularly styled vehicles that could well be direct competition to Lexus, but, with high tech interiors and fully EV. If they get the build quality and safety kit right ( and they will) why wouldnt you go for them? Automotive markets will no longer be thesame and the companies sleeping will be left behind ( hi range rover) by new start ups. And then we did not even talk about self driving cars ......

[Guest]

Biggest need for EV is towns and cities and also most difficult to cater for. I think Lexus Toyota right to hold out for infrastructure. People called them silly for not having diesels a few years ago.

 

Maybe waiting for more children in Africa to mine the cobalt?

 

 

 

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[davej62]

Interesting comments coming through, as there appears to be a slow shift towards hybrid vehicles in the UK, charging stations and the incentives to charge EV's from home & the workplace will i'm certain be more effective by 2030, scary thought that as we get closer to 2020, globally the demise of diesel engines is a sign that times are changing, Ford in the news this week, having reported a slow down in demand for their engines, is confirmation of that, Oslo (Norway) is setting an example, & recently the BBC ran a short story of how the norwegian government is encouraging drivers to convert to hybrid & EV's, whilst heavily taxing drivers of dirty diesel engines, UK cities should follow their example, wishful thinking, interesting nevertheless.  

[Herbie]

3 hours ago, Connoisseur said:

The National Grid has already confirmed that car charging does not now, and will not present insurmountable infrastructure issues

Ooh, I'm really not convinced of that at all.

It may not do now because there aren't many EVs but as the numbers grow, so will the demand on the grid. We all know that burning fossil fuels is bad and that we need to move to EVs, but as I said above, we haven't got the generating capacity. We seem to be increasing the numbers of wind farms and solar farms but these only generate intermittently, so coal, oil, nuclear plant has to be kept in hot rolling standby ready to pick up the load when the wind drops or the clouds cover the sun, but as we already know, a lot of these existing traditional sources are reaching end of life.

Not only that, but we used to have a built-in redundancy with lots of backup plant in the transmission networks, but due to years of cutbacks and less preventative maintenance taking place, that backup plant is now in daily service. Not only is supply going to suffer but so is the means to transport it.

A very interesting website to keep your eyes on is http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ which shows how much each different fuel is contributing to the supply, the current demand on the grid and lots of other interesting stuff, all updated every five minutes. Demand right at this moment is only 21.79GW but on cold winter nights I've seen that needle almost touch the red mark and I really do wonder how many EVs will it take to push it further?

[olliesgrandad]

As a shareholder in a solar cooperative I believe sustainable energy production i s needed. However I am very much against personally owning an EV due to the charging issues. The planners will also have to get their act together. My local Council insist on cycle storage and discounted bicycle vouchers with new build, but garages and suitable parking spaces for charger points aren't even considered. To me the self charging hybwis the most practical alternative at this time.