ohhh... last again?

wynants · May 29, 2019

I don't know where some of the posters here live, but where i live you are either, stuck in traffic, standing still in traffic, heading for slow traffic etc.. and if by accident you find yourself on an open road whit out tractors , bicycles, or a slow moving lorry, you can be rest assured that if you go to quick the state of the road will quickly take care of your precious car. And if that ain't enough there is the forrest of speed camera's, trajectory control and speed bumps, that put your drivers license in a permanent state of danger. I just sold my BMW 730 after 4 years, it was a nice car but there isn't just room and opportunity to justify the heavy engine or RWD any more. Those of you who live in a place where you can still throw your car around the bends as they like to show in those fancy car commercials where you never see another car on the road, good luck to you, as for us, we're already very happy if we can keep moving along at a modest speed.

I chose the ES over a new BMW because it has more room for the passengers in the back then my 7 serie's had, it will cost me considerably less to run on a year basis, i ordered mine with just one option ticked ( metallic paint ) and for the rest it has all the luxury specs i had on my fully loaded 7 and then even some! And boy this is a quiet car! And as far as Mat Watson is concerned, his love affair with German cars should be well known, there are other reviews on the web that paint a far better picture of the ES.

like this for example

noby76 · May 29, 2019

hmmm i wonder why the north american reviewers and the UK/europe reviewers have a very contrasting view when it comes to Lexus cars... i wonder why... i must say the interior in the ES @wynants posted looks very nice...

dutchie01 · May 29, 2019

3 hours ago, wynants said:

Idon't know where some of the posters here live, but where i live you are either, stuck in traffic, standing still in traffic, heading for slow traffic etc.. and if by accident you find yourself on an open road whit out tractors , bicycles, or a slow moving lorry, you can be rest assured that if you go to quick the state of the road will quickly take care of your in't enough there is the forrest of speed camera's, trajectory control and speed bumps, that put your drivers license in a permanent state of danger.

I could not agree more Jean. I had my first car 40 years ago and in them days there were no trafficjams, rules or police interventions at all. I remember us tuning alfas golfs and even 2stroke kawasakis to better the track record on our just out of town ringroad. No longer, i just returned from a 3 hr roundtrip on a 4 lane highway which is radar controlled ( netherlands ) by infrared cameras. Speeding results in a 100% ticket. Cruise control not possible a too busy. Traffic traffic traffic.

Sometimes i cannot wait for a 100% selfdriving car, type in the destination and just read or doze off, wonderful. At night the petrolheads come out to play take their beloved vehicle and drive the wheels off at the countryroads when everybody is watching the telly.

fetchez la vache · May 29, 2019

...for a few years now I’ve run the family car to do the grind but kept a second car for the perfect antidote to congestion, trackdays. For about 5 years this was a mk1 MX5, then a 106 Rallye, now a Renaultsport Megane 275 Cup-S.

Chill out on the road as they are full of traffic/ cameras etc, kick back in an ES, 5 series, E class etc (you can really throw a hat over them all they are all of the same ilk) and have a total blast on track in a more suitable car...

YYB129 · May 29, 2019

4 minutes ago, fetchez la vache said:

...for a few years now I’ve run the family car to do the grind but kept a second car for the perfect antidote to congestion, trackdays. For about 5 years this was a mk1 MX5, then a 106 Rallye, now a Renaultsport Megane 275 Cup-S.

Chill out on the road as they are full of traffic/ cameras etc, kick back in an ES, 5 series, E class etc (you can really throw a hat over them all they are all of the same ilk) and have a total blast on track in a more suitable car...

For sure, that’s the attraction, and weekends with my 7 (or Series 1 Land Rover, Mk2 Scirocco, E320 Sportline cabriolet, to name a few)

fetchez la vache · May 29, 2019

Good man, would love a series 1 and the 7 looks rapid!

Thedempsey · May 29, 2019

Interesting thread, new to Lexus and only driven an old Rx350 which I now want to buy!

I see it a lot on all the forums I have been on, a mild obsession with BHP, when in reality it's torque that will make the most difference in most driving conditions, some cars don't hit peak BHP until right at the end of the rev range in a gear the car hardly spends any time in. I've paid for decent maps on cars that don't change the BHP at all, but adjust the torque delivery.

An observation on the ES is that 220nm is feeble, I can only assume that's because the main engine is naturally aspirated and no turbo, so it will definitely feel slow against much much more powerful rivals (especially diesels). Couple that with a CVT gearbox and the associated rubber band effect (although I'm sure the e-cvt is more advanced that the ones I have spent time in) then you'll get a lot of acceleration noise and not much happening. Again, all relative I guess, I assume most buyers of a lexus aren't looking to hoon around, in which case it's not that relevant.

For comparison, I had a great time in a ford sportka 1.6 N/A which had about 92bhp and it revved freely and sounded fantastic, with a lovely snickety gearbox. It was also the same speed to 60 as the Lexus we are talking about due to the weight and adventurous gearing.

Anyway, great thread, some interesting comments, I love and appreciate all cars.

Demps

Linas.P · May 30, 2019

On 5/29/2019 at 10:48 AM, noby76 said:

Clearly someone hasn't looked in the mirror yet.. 😂

I didn't suggest anything - just asked you to self reflect... clearly you could not even do that. I am usually aiming for "green" steps, sometimes succesfully sometimes not... at least I am trying.

On 5/29/2019 at 12:38 PM, DanD said:

Does it really matter whether a car is FWD or RWD these days, or whether it has 200bhp or 300bhp,

Absolutely 100%. It is like saying - "does it really matter whenever your wedding ring is real gold or just plastic with with yellow finish which looks like gold". I would agree with you if FWD or slow/under-powered car would cost significantly less - that would be fair... they cost less to make, are less sophisticated hence price should reflect it, but that is not the case. Companies uses ignorance (or outright carelessness) of customers like you to boost their margins and that is why I always going to be critical of it.

On 5/29/2019 at 4:07 PM, wynants said:

I don't know where some of the posters here live, but where i live you are either, stuck in traffic, standing still in traffic, heading for slow traffic etc..

Wheres I can relate to what you are saying, because I drive to work every day in central London... there is worse thing then constant traffic - imagine the situation where the road finally opens-up and you have disgusting under-powered FWD hybrid and even during those rare moment you cannot enjoy driving.... well that would be tragic isn't it? Apart from that I often find some occasions "drop the hammer" even on my commute. Other thing we need to note - people in UK have forgotten how the roads should function and look like, however traffic is not normal... it should not exist and we should do more to force goverment to act on this chronic problem. I mean like Guy Fawkes style would do....

On 5/29/2019 at 4:49 PM, noby76 said:

hmmm i wonder why the north american reviewers and the UK/europe reviewers have a very contrasting view

Maybe that is because Lexus in US is "full range" leading brand not some lame "out of context" niche player offering barely half of the range with single engine?!

NemesisUK · May 30, 2019

DanD · May 30, 2019

I was going to reply, but I suddenly found better things to do.

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk

olliesgrandad · May 30, 2019

On 5/29/2019 at 8:56 PM, YYB129 said:

For sure, that’s the attraction, and weekends with my 7 (or Series 1 Land Rover, Mk2 Scirocco, E320 Sportline cabriolet, to name a few)

E320 W124 cabriolet. A proper Mercedes. In 2000 I bought a 1990 E300ce with only 10000 dry miles. What a beautiful car. Foolishly sold it 6 years later for a 2. 8 Z3.

YYB129 · May 31, 2019

10 hours ago, olliesgrandad said:

E320 W124 cabriolet. A proper Mercedes. In 2000 I bought a 1990 E300ce with only 10000 dry miles. What a beautiful car. Foolishly sold it 6 years later for a 2. 8 Z3.

I do love the coupe, I had a silver E220, replaced that with a 300-24vTE (usual family reasons). What a find in 2000 with so few miles and properly over engineered.

I bought that cabriolet in ‘98 and have put more than 220,000 miles on it; odo has now failed, other than 2 genuine front wings in 2005, that’s about it bar routine servicing and regular (6k) oil changes.

However, my 2016 C350e?! Let’s say I’m looking forward to Lexus fulfilling my order 🤘

olliesgrandad · May 31, 2019

I had my first Mercedes in 1991. My local dealer was ousted by MB and replaced with Sytner. The service manager Robin Lamb set up his own service garage and since then whenever I have owned Mercedes he has done the servicing. My last one was a 2012 E250 cabriolet. Both Steve Winwood and Richard Ashcroft use him rather than the Main Dealer.

What he doesn't know about W124 Mercedes could be written on the back of a stamp 👍

fetchez la vache · May 31, 2019

I’m so impressed by the performance of my ES300h that I have renamed it...

Linas.P · May 31, 2019

1 hour ago, fetchez la vache said:

I’m so impressed by the performance of my ES300h that I have renamed it...

Wow that is massive compliment to Lexus .... to be promoted to Volkswagen... I guess that is how low they fall...

VinnyB · June 2, 2019

Just like to say i have a lexus es takumi and i have just specced up audi A6 like in this review with all the toys mine has and it comes in at a massive £66k i paid £44k also come resale i will get better return so why bother with german cars that when we have the slightest bit of sleet in uk you cant drive them i would rather have money in the bank than be able to drive fast round a corner

NemesisUK · June 2, 2019

6 minutes ago, VinnyB said:

so why bother with german cars that when we have the slightest bit of sleet in uk you cant drive them i would rather have money in the bank than be able to drive fast round a corner

That's nothing to do with German cars rather more to do with tyres.

VinnyB · June 2, 2019

24 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

That's nothing to do with German cars rather more to do with tyres.

What the £20k difference

i had a bmw 5 series and its rear wheel drive cars that are crap in winter conditions compared to front wheel thats why bmw have gone to all wheel drive

NemesisUK · June 2, 2019

30 minutes ago, VinnyB said:

What the £20k difference

i had a bmw 5 series and its rear wheel drive cars that are crap in winter conditions compared to front wheel thats why bmw have gone to all wheel drive

It's not the driven axle that matters in the snow but the tyres fitted. If you fit winter tyres you'd have no issues, millions of Germans (Swiss, Austrians, Poles etc.etc etc) survive each year in the snow in their rwd cars

What tyres did you have on your BMW?

wynants · June 2, 2019

47 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

That's nothing to do with German cars rather more to do with tyres.

No sorry not correct, i had frontwheel drivers and RWD, as a rule , when conditions got bad, more then once i was left stranded with my RWD, while the cars with frontwheel drive were still moving! the road really has to freak out bad before i get stranded with a FWD, and as far as i recall those conditions happened 2 or three days in the last 5 years .

My previous car before the 7 was a 5 serie (530) came winter, i had to put on good winter tires or i got stranded in icy weather, or the tailgate went in wet conditions, never happened with FWD.

And as far as tyres goes, i never skimped on new tyres, i value my life too much to buy second rated tyres

As far as i can see , the only advantage of RWD ,for a daily driver, is that there's a little less interference in your steering and you get more the feeling of a push in the back when you accelerate, everyone has to decide for themselves how much they value this, but having driven multiple RWD and FWD cars in my life, and the way modern technology has evolved, there really not much differentiation anymore.

royoftherovers · June 2, 2019

1 hour ago, VinnyB said:

What the £20k difference

i had a bmw 5 series and its rear wheel drive cars that are crap in winter conditions compared to front wheel thats why bmw have gone to all wheel drive

BMW and Mercedes both formerly supplied rear wheel drive vehicles fitted with Summer tyres. A recipe for no grip in Winter.

NemesisUK · June 2, 2019

doog442 · June 2, 2019

8 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

BMW and Mercedes both formerly supplied rear wheel drive vehicles fitted with Summer tyres. A recipe for no grip in Winter.

Lexus have done the same for donkeys years😉

Linas.P · June 2, 2019

2 hours ago, wynants said:

No sorry not correct, i had frontwheel drivers and RWD, as a rule , when conditions got bad, more then once i was left stranded with my RWD, while the cars with frontwheel drive were still moving! the road really has to freak out bad before i get stranded with a FWD, and as far as i recall those conditions happened 2 or three days in the last 5 years .

Basically what you are saying is that - you don't know how to drive in wintry conditions?

I cannot blame you for that - in UK you do not have winters, so it is unreasonable to expect british drivers to have skill or equipment for winter conditions. Has nothing to do with the car.

If anything RWD could be more fun in winter, could end-up badly, but still more fun.. and if you hit ice on summer tyres then it doesn't matter which wheels are driving, could be AWD you would still just go straight into the ditch.

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

BMW and Mercedes both formerly supplied rear wheel drive vehicles fitted with Summer tyres. A recipe for no grip in Winter.

I am pretty sure all the cars sold in UK have summer tyres fitted from dealership. Maybe on some rare occasion you get some cars with universal tyres. I believe NX in dealership had Michelin CrossClimate. But that is not winter tyre! Yes if you going to hit some wet snow on them that is fine, but if it is -8C outside and you get on ice, they are pretty much as useless as any summer tyre.

ES certainly had summer tyres, I think the one I tried had Dunlop SP Sport Maxx.