RX450H Paint issues

[NeilB]

I have had my RX450H from new and the car is now 6 years old. The car has been fantastic mechanically and at 60,000 miles were still on first set of tyres and brakes!

We however required a new rear bumper when a van decided not to bother checking his mirror in a car park 5 years ago when it was 1 year old. Admiral, our insurer insisted that we use their approved paint shops rather than the Lexus approved shops. Now the paint clear coat is peeling off on both sides by the wheel arches and Admiral say that it is due to stone chip damage and this has been validated by their independent engineer, Banwell & Associates. The local Lexus bodyshop say its due to poor paint repair quality as there are visible solvent micro blisters, but Admiral disregard their comments. The problem is that I would have bought another new RX450H eventually, but should I now that Admiral and Banwell say this happens to all Lexus'? There is no way I am going to spend £50k+ when this could happen again. I have had BMW's. Mercs, Porsches from new and never experienced this paint flaking issue and it looks hideous and Lexus have quoted circa £1750 to repair because it will require a new bumper.

Another thing I have learnt is not to use Admiral Insurance if you have a Lexus because they don't approve their bodyshops on the grounds of cost.

 

 

[jumpingjehovahs]

My RX450H is 9 years old and has covered almost 100,000 miles. It’s paint is, with the exception of swirl marks, as good as it left the factory. The bumpers haven’t peeled, even where I’ve got a bit close to a wall...

Sounds to me, like an insurance company being an insurance company and talking a load of nonsense.


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[scudney]

Sounds more like your insurance company's approved bodyshop trying to shift the blame elsewhere lol

[NemesisUK]

6yr old tyres! I thought the recommendation was to change at 5yrs max?

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, NeilB said:

The problem is that I would have bought another new RX450H eventually, but should I now that Admiral and Banwell say this happens to all Lexus'?

Of course you should - your next one may never be hit so the problem won't arise again.

My car is also a 2013 (63 plate) and shows no such problem. Just be sure to change insurers when you change car.

[royoftherovers]

Admiral often do not receive good reviews.Time to move, methinks!

[olliesgrandad]

4 hours ago, NeilB said:

I have had my RX450H from new and the car is now 6 years old. The car has been fantastic mechanically and at 60,000 miles were still on first set of tyres and brakes!

We however required a new rear bumper when a van decided not to bother checking his mirror in a car park 5 years ago when it was 1 year old. Admiral, our insurer insisted that we use their approved paint shops rather than the Lexus approved shops. Now the paint clear coat is peeling off on both sides by the wheel arches and Admiral say that it is due to stone chip damage and this has been validated by their independent engineer, Banwell & Associates. The local Lexus bodyshop say its due to poor paint repair quality as there are visible solvent micro blisters, but Admiral disregard their comments. The problem is that I would have bought another new RX450H eventually, but should I now that Admiral and Banwell say this happens to all Lexus'? There is no way I am going to spend £50k+ when this could happen again. I have had BMW's. Mercs, Porsches from new and never experienced this paint flaking issue and it looks hideous and Lexus have quoted circa £1750 to repair because it will require a new bumper.

Another thing I have learnt is not to use Admiral Insurance if you have a Lexus because they don't approve their bodyshops on the grounds of cost.

 

 

My understanding is that the paintwork should have been warranted by the insurer's approved bodyshop. I would certainly fight this issue on the basis that they repaired it. The issue is nothing to do with Lexus and I would certainly buy another. 

I had a very bad experience with insurance company repairers on an is300h and learned that I would insist in future on repairs by a Lexus approved bodyshop. 

As an aside it might be worth speaking to your local chipsaway repairer. My guy in Gloucester (Stuart) does superb work  in his workshop and they could probably deal with this for a lot less money than a bodyshop. They fully warranty the work for as long as you own the car.  I see you are not too far away and Gloucester chipsaway is only across the Road from Gloucester Docks and outlet centre. Sure that could be fixed in a day at a very reasonable cost. 

[Glover]

In essence what your insurers would have you believe is that the paint spraying robots at Lexus applied the paint incorrectly to one part of the car when the vehicle was built.  Bizarrely when your car was hit the part of the car that had poorly applied paint was the only part of the car that was damaged and then subsequently repaired. Really????  As the man said 'there's more chance of Elvis coming back riding Shergar and being struck by lightning!'   A more plausible explanation was that the humans carrying out the repair working under pressure to keep costs down skimped on preparation and/or applying the paint.  

My RX is a year older than yours and I have no paint problems whatsoever and I would gladly buy another. 

RXs sold in the UK come from a factory that has been rated number one in the world for quality (number two is a Toyota plant in Japan and number three is the Lexus plant in   Canada).  Couple the award winning factories with the fact that Lexus consistently win awards for the quality of their cars and  I doubt very much that a poor paint finish on a car would have got past inspection at the factory. 

I'd suggest taking your case to the insurance ombudsman and the VBRA (assuming the repairers were members)  And finally can Banwell and Associates be independent when they are paid by Admiral?

Good luck

[Herbie]

22 minutes ago, Glover said:

And finally can Banwell and Associates be independent when they are paid by Admiral?

Well, yes. It's only like asking if they can be independent if employed by the OP - one or other party has to get the independents involved somewhere along the line.

To the OP - you've been the victim of bad workmanship and an insurance company that doesn't care about its customers. You could try to fight it but how much time, effort and hair can you stand to lose, not to mention that you could still be fighting it at this time next year if they decide to drag it out.

Cut your losses and just have the repair done yourself and put it down to experience.

I had a little prang a couple of months ago and went to the Lexus approved bodyshop for a quote, thinking that if it was reasonable enough I'd pay it myself instead of getting the insurance involved (no other vehicles or persons involved in said prang). My flabber was well and truly gasted when they said £1,660.

I did a bit of looking around and found a guy who usually works on restorations. His work is impeccable and he's done a couple of E-type Jags, MGB GTs and much more, including some military vehicles and he's currently doing the bodywork on a Hillman Tilly. He said that if I can wait until he's finished that, he'll do my repair for £700 - you'll not be surprised to learn that I'm waiting patiently 

[Ken R]

I insure my Lexus with Admiral so thanks for the heads-up but my recent experience with them in relation to a family Nissan is one where their "approved" bodyshop quoted £900+ to repair hit and run damage that I managed to get done locally (and extremely well) for £300. (and we wonder why insurance is so expensive!)

 

  

[ColinBarber]

11 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

6yr old tyres! I thought the recommendation was to change at 5yrs max?

They should just be inspected regularly after 5 years and replaced when deterioration occurs.

[NeilB]

I am really pleased to hear a resounding "this doesn't normally happen to Lexus cars!" Unlike I was told by Banwells and the paint shop PK Motors, Tunbridge Wells.

I will take this further with the Ombudsman and any paint trade associations I can find. I will also use a truly independent paint specialist unlike the Admiral hires.

Many thanks, this is the first time I have used a forum, it's good to hear I am not the only fool to have bought a Lexus.

[DanD]

I too would trust Lexus over Admiral. I was insured for a year with Admiral on a multi-car policy, and I found them unhelpful at the best of times., and certainly not customer-focused.

[ISJason]

Hi Neil.
I’ve had my 12 year old RX for 6 years and the paint is perfect.
Ignore those fools at your insurance company, they don’t know what they are talking about.


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[olliesgrandad]

1 hour ago, ISJason said:

Hi Neil.
I’ve had my 12 year old RX for 6 years and the paint is perfect.
Ignore those fools at your insurance company, they don’t know what they are talking about.


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My ex had a vw polo bought new. Someone cut the fabric sunroof with a knife. Car repaired by insurance companies repairers but upon return roof didn't function car went back, but was a very long time in bodyw A few months later I noticed the bonnet had changed colour further inspection revealed over spray, signs of filler and missing stone chip repairs. Insurance company engineer insisted the car had been repaired and that it was factory paint. Complained to the insurers and they arranged for their chief engineer to inspect car at vw bodyshop. Before he arrived the bodyshop manager without close inspection said the car had clearly been damaged and repaired without our knowledge. Insurers forced to agree an VW bodyshop refinished front of car to proper standard 

[Mauler]

Threaten the gits with the insurance ombudsman - you'd be surprised how this can motivate them to be less rubbish.  Then once it's sorted, bin them ASAP.

[rayaans]

Yep, poor repair. Clearcoat shouldnt be peeling even if you have stone chips.

Im with Admiral but always insist on using my own bodyshop - i.e the one that the local Lexus dealers use

[DanD]

Am I right in saying that this means your excess goes up?

[rayaans]

12 minutes ago, DanD said:

Am I right in saying that this means your excess goes up?

Yes £250 extra but if its not your fault, you claim all of this back. 

[First_Lexus]

I've been with Admiral quite a few times over the years, but this thread - and their renewal quote - has seen me leave this year.

They tried to put up my multi-car policy by almost £200 and there had been no changes to my cars or circumstances. As in previous years they were willing to reduce the price, but I decided to go elsewhere. Having done some research on service vs price I've gone with Hastings Direct for the NX and Graham Sykes for my MINI at just over £400 for the pair, protected NCB, legal protection, enhanced hire-car (with Hastings) and breakdown cover for the MINI (as it's already included as standard on the Graham Sykes policy).

I was with Graham Sykes a few years ago for my classic Mini and they are great to deal with. Now that my Cooper is 15 years old I can insure it on a 'classic' restricted mileage policy for very little and that has made a big difference.

 

[NeilB]

On 5/20/2019 at 7:48 PM, NemesisUK said:

6yr old tyres! I thought the recommendation was to change at 5yrs max?

They are in good condition, checked by the Lexus dealer at annual service. I am also only supposed to eat meat 3 times a week and maximum 5 pints of beer a week.

[NeilB]

On 5/20/2019 at 11:40 PM, Glover said:

In essence what your insurers would have you believe is that the paint spraying robots at Lexus applied the paint incorrectly to one part of the car when the vehicle was built.  Bizarrely when your car was hit the part of the car that had poorly applied paint was the only part of the car that was damaged and then subsequently repaired. Really????  As the man said 'there's more chance of Elvis coming back riding Shergar and being struck by lightning!'   A more plausible explanation was that the humans carrying out the repair working under pressure to keep costs down skimped on preparation and/or applying the paint.  

My RX is a year older than yours and I have no paint problems whatsoever and I would gladly buy another. 

RXs sold in the UK come from a factory that has been rated number one in the world for quality (number two is a Toyota plant in Japan and number three is the Lexus plant in   Canada).  Couple the award winning factories with the fact that Lexus consistently win awards for the quality of their cars and  I doubt very much that a poor paint finish on a car would have got past inspection at the factory. 

I'd suggest taking your case to the insurance ombudsman and the VBRA (assuming the repairers were members)  And finally can Banwell and Associates be independent when they are paid by Admiral?

Good luck

Does anyone know if VBRA still exists? Their website, email and phone doesn't seem to be working. Someone will be in trouble if they forgot to renew their telecom agreement.

[NeilB]

40 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I've been with Admiral quite a few times over the years, but this thread - and their renewal quote - has seen me leave this year.

They tried to put up my multi-car policy by almost £200 and there had been no changes to my cars or circumstances. As in previous years they were willing to reduce the price, but I decided to go elsewhere. Having done some research on service vs price I've gone with Hastings Direct for the NX and Graham Sykes for my MINI at just over £400 for the pair, protected NCB, legal protection, enhanced hire-car (with Hastings) and breakdown cover for the MINI (as it's already included as standard on the Graham Sykes policy).

I was with Graham Sykes a few years ago for my classic Mini and they are great to deal with. Now that my Cooper is 15 years old I can insure it on a 'classic' restricted mileage policy for very little and that has made a big difference.

 

Yes the logic of multicar policies sadly is destroyed by the insurers tendency to take advantage at every opportunity. Having 2 separate policies makes it easier to see when one is being leveraged.

[royoftherovers]

 

 "I am also only supposed to eat meat 3 times a week and maximum 5 pints of beer a week".

 

..............and make love every Oberammergau Passion Play?  ( loL)

[NeilB]

On 5/23/2019 at 2:39 PM, olliesgrandad said:

My ex had a vw polo bought new. Someone cut the fabric sunroof with a knife. Car repaired by insurance companies repairers but upon return roof didn't function car went back, but was a very long time in bodyw A few months later I noticed the bonnet had changed colour further inspection revealed over spray, signs of filler and missing stone chip repairs. Insurance company engineer insisted the car had been repaired and that it was factory paint. Complained to the insurers and they arranged for their chief engineer to inspect car at vw bodyshop. Before he arrived the bodyshop manager without close inspection said the car had clearly been damaged and repaired without our knowledge. Insurers forced to agree an VW bodyshop refinished front of car to proper standard 

I wish that Admiral had a chief engineer that would carry out the visits and had an interest in customer satisfaction! In my case they sent a a fella from a firm called Banwells that started telling me it was stone chip damage as he was climbing out of his car before he even looked at it. He spent very little time looking at the peeling paint, in fact when I pointed out I can peel the clear coat off he said yes that's because moisture has penetrated between the clear and base coat, hee didn't try it himself. He was more interested in noting the mileage, tyre tread depths, chassis number and taking photos of the front, roof etc for his report to send to Admiral together with his bill.

 

On 5/20/2019 at 7:04 PM, NeilB said:

I have had my RX450H from new and the car is now 6 years old. The car has been fantastic mechanically and at 60,000 miles were still on first set of tyres and brakes!

We however required a new rear bumper when a van decided not to bother checking his mirror in a car park 5 years ago when it was 1 year old. Admiral, our insurer insisted that we use their approved paint shops rather than the Lexus approved shops. Now the paint clear coat is peeling off on both sides by the wheel arches and Admiral say that it is due to stone chip damage and this has been validated by their independent engineer, Banwell & Associates. The local Lexus bodyshop say its due to poor paint repair quality as there are visible solvent micro blisters, but Admiral disregard their comments. The problem is that I would have bought another new RX450H eventually, but should I now that Admiral and Banwell say this happens to all Lexus'? There is no way I am going to spend £50k+ when this could happen again. I have had BMW's. Mercs, Porsches from new and never experienced this paint flaking issue and it looks hideous and Lexus have quoted circa £1750 to repair because it will require a new bumper.

Another thing I have learnt is not to use Admiral Insurance if you have a Lexus because they don't approve their bodyshops on the grounds of cost.

 

 

One of the paint companies that I have talked to suggests that the best definitive way to determine paint adhesion performance is to carry out a cross hatch test where you use a stanley knife to score the paint in a cross hatch pattern, and then apply sellotape and rip it off to see what is removed: clear coat and or base coat. The trouble is that he suggests I should also carry out the same test on the "factory painted front bumper" for a direct comparison. Sort of double or quits, then requiring rectification at both ends of the car! It could make a good post though.