My ISF MOT brake failure update

gb1600e · May 18, 2019

I consider my 2009 ISF with 97k miles in very good condition (as do Lexus Derby) but here's a tale for all you early plate cars to be mindful of.

Before the MOT

I replaced my brake pads all round with brembo pads from Euro Car Parts. Said to be not to be the same spec friction material as brembo pads from Lexus ? but should be quite sufficient for me and Less than £80 all in which I was happy with. However one of the rear pad retaining pins was seized and no amount of penetrating oil (for nearly a week) and persuading would shift it so I had to take the calliper off to sort that out. On the bench it was much easier to safely knock the pin out although it was bent by the time it gave up the struggle. £46 for a new one pin (2 in fact and the spring clip which I didn't need). I took the opportunity to dose any nut and bolt within reach with WD40 as it seemed a good idea. Incidentally I measured the disks and the fronts were 28.6 mm and the rears 26.5mm, both still within the tolerance as specified by brembo (28mm and 26mm respectively, I gather they start at 30mm and 28mm).

Conclusion: A good job well done. Took longer than it should but would have cost a lot more if I had Lexus do it. Maybe do the disks next year.

The MOT test

A short 3 mile, 30mph drive (its the law) into town and the good news at Lexus Derby was the confirmation the test itself was free as part of the extended warranty. My frothy coffee and courtesy biscuit enjoyment was ruined however with the news the car failed. The look on Oliver's face told the storey, I think she had already worked out the bill). Complete brake failure, pedal to the floor during the brake test. My first though was "that could be expensive" but quickly turned to "Oh **** what if that happened while I was driving at speed" By the time I was in the workshop looking at the offending item I was grateful I was having the conversation there rather than being up against the back of a bus. On reflection I think I was lucky.

The Details

The off side steel brake line had burst just above the union where it joins the flexi, which connects to the calliper. The first 5cm are unprotected from the poly coating which covers the rest of the line. I did notice when I did the pads this was corroded but not massively so. Anyway the line disappears up behind the rear arch liner to who knows where ! Well I now know it goes all the way to the front of the car in one piece and needed them to have the car for a week. Yikes. Result was a total rear end dismantling. Both arch liners off, Cat back exhaust off, back axle off, prop shaft off, fuel tank out, numerous heat shields and covers off. Sadly I don't have a photo but I'm told it looked a picture. We all agreed this would write off a 10 year old bog standard model. Lucky for me its an ISF then. I was pleased to hear from the technician that everything came to bits very easily with nothing seized and the underside of the car is as solid as every. Well that's good news then.

The Cost and by the way the warranty company said No. Doh.

MOT Free

OS Brake Pike £67.39

NS Brake Pipe £75.36

Brake Fluid £9.31

Labour £950

VAT £220

It not happening at high speed with me driving Priceless! A £1322.47 investment in my safety is the way to look at it. And of course good for another 10 years.

The lesson and the point to take the time to tell the storey.

Proactively check how rusty your rear brake pipes are if you have an older ISF, or any IS and put a few quid to one side if you ought to change them. But most importantly Stay Safe.

Shahpor · May 18, 2019

Glad to happened during the test Glynn, like you say.

However, I am surprised that the warranty company refused your claim? Surely a corroded pipe is a failure? In fact, it sounds like a design flaw.

Although, based on what you said they did, is it strange that I am surprised that it 'only' cost £950 labour?

doog442 · May 18, 2019

A massive coincidence it 'burst' on the FREE MOT test at a Lexus dealership who then charged you £1200 to rectify a leaking brake pipe.

I would have been into the workshop like a racing dog to photograph and document said 'burst pipe' knowing too well they now have me as a captive audience.

That said its an expensive performance vehicle and the decision to get it MOT'd and serviced by Lexus probably won't come with any short cuts, so at least you have the assurance its all been done to Lexus dealership standards.

However at what stage / age do you stop taking your car to a main dealer .

lotusdave · May 19, 2019

It's the pipe leading to the calliper you removed? You sound like an excellent mechanic but I wonder if, after all these years, removing it was the final straw for the pipe?

Were you not tempted to do the other side? Won't they be similar condition all things being equal?

Scary stuff.

PRT68 · May 19, 2019

Glad you're OK!

As mentioned, it does seem a design flaw on lots of cars. You'd have thought that an essential safety item should always be in full view.

I wonder if a home mechanic or back street garage would have cut the bad piece out and rejoined?

I also assume it's a split system so the other half would have worked.

Texas · May 19, 2019

5 hours ago, lotusdave said:

It's the pipe leading to the calliper you removed? You sound like an excellent mechanic but I wonder if, after all these years, removing it was the final straw for the pipe?

Were you not tempted to do the other side? Won't they be similar condition all things being equal?

Scary stuff.

Looks like it was done according to Bill.

OS Brake Pike £67.39

NS Brake Pipe £75.36

paul m.

giorgoXXI · May 19, 2019

Glad its all fixed now, but why did the warranty refuse to fix it? Did they consider it wear and tear? Was it the official Lexus warranty?

I am also surprised how cheap the labour was considering everything that was done.

Malc · May 19, 2019

21 hours ago, gb1600e said:

The MOT test

A short 3 mile, 30mph drive (its the law)

you are joking about this I presume !

Malc

gb1600e · May 19, 2019

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 7:31 PM, Shahpor said:

Glad to happened during the test Glynn, like you say.

However, I am surprised that the warranty company refused your claim? Surely a corroded pipe is a failure? In fact, it sounds like a design flaw.

Although, based on what you said they did, is it strange that I am surprised that it 'only' cost £950 labour?

@Shahpor you are surprised I was gutted. The service team weren't confident from the off on a 10 year old brake pipe and I let them make the approach (I was in shock). So yes @giorgoXXI normal wear / corrosion, and yes the Lexus Extended Warranty but I'm considering another approach as of course there could be a conflict of interest? or at best they are not as interested as I am in £1300

10 hours labour according to the Lexus service bible (It took the technician about 30 mins to work it out) so £95 / hr then. It's what I was quoted at the start although I gather from the technician who did it that it actually took nearer 13 hrs !! Fair enough they didn't amend the bill.

Good points @doog442 and @PRT68 I did ask the question if they could just piece out the first 6 inches" (which I might have done on a daily shopper car) and was politely told there were no straight bits long enough to do so rear of the diff so wouldn't be any saving. And they did ask if I wanted to trailer it somewhere else but in for a penny in for a pound. I bought the car with full Lexus service history and warranty in place and will sell it similar having wanted for nothing. I don't mind buying 50% off pads but wasn't compromising on this.

Yep @lotusdave and @Texas I had both sides done. The nearside line is a little longer hence the slightly higher price. I disconnected the calliper / flexi at the calliper end so hadn't tinkered with the connection the other end. However I had dosed the union at the other end, as I had with all the other fixings with WD 40. If that's was dislodged any rusted steel to the point it blew out so be it.

@Malc its the fun you have getting to 30mph that makes the difference. A visceral experience tingling all the senses. Hybrid / silent electric wizardry ? No Thanks !!

giorgoXXI · May 19, 2019

31 minutes ago, gb1600e said:

@Shahpor you are surprised I was gutted.   The service team weren't confident from the off on a 10 year old brake pipe and I let them make the approach (I was in shock).   So yes @giorgoXXI normal wear / corrosion, and yes the Lexus Extended Warranty but I'm considering another approach as of course there could be a conflict of interest? or at best they are not as interested as I am in £1300

10 hours labour according to the Lexus service bible (It took the technician about 30 mins to work it out) so £95 / hr then.  It's what I was quoted at the start although I gather from the technician who did it that it actually took nearer 13 hrs !! Fair enough they didn't amend the bill.

Good points @doog442 and @PRT68 I did ask the question if they could just piece out the first 6 inches" (which I might have done on a daily shopper car) and was politely told there were no straight bits long enough to do so rear of the diff so wouldn't be any saving. And they did ask if I wanted to trailer it somewhere else but in for a penny in for a pound. I bought the car with full Lexus service history and warranty in place and will sell it similar having wanted for nothing. I don't mind buying 50% off pads but wasn't compromising on this.

Yep @lotusdave and @Texas I had both sides done. The nearside line is a little longer hence the slightly higher price. I disconnected the calliper / flexi at the calliper end so hadn't tinkered with the connection the other end.   However I had dosed the union at the other end, as I had with all the other fixings with WD 40. If that's was dislodged any rusted steel to the point it blew out so be it.

@Malc its the fun you have getting to 30mph that makes the difference. A visceral experience tingling all the senses. Hybrid / silent electric wizardry ? No Thanks !!

Shame about the warranty, seems like they weaseled their way out from paying up. I have an 11 year old IS-F, and had a brake caliper leak (instant MOT failure). Initially Lexus warranty denied the claim insisting it was wear (tbh it did seem as wear), then the service centre insisted and finally they agreed to pay for it (£800 to replace the caliper). I've only had good experiences with Lexus warranty and it's a shame it cannot be renewed any further!

You are lucky though with the labour rate, my dealer charges £150/hour!

Texas · May 19, 2019

"it's a shame it cannot be renewed any further!"

Are you thinking as the car is over 10 years old you cannot have the warranty?

As far as I understand it, you have to start the Lexus warranty before the 10th year from 1st registration ( also less than 100k miles & full Lexus history or an 'acceptance' inspection is required) but when started it can be renewed past the 10 year mark so as you currently have it you should be able to continue it.

paul m.

giorgoXXI · May 19, 2019

42 minutes ago, Texas said:

"it's a shame it cannot be renewed any further!"

Are you thinking as the car is over 10 years old you cannot have the warranty?

As far as I understand it, you have to start the Lexus warranty before the 10th year from 1st registration ( also less than 100k miles & full Lexus history or an 'acceptance' inspection is required) but when started it can be renewed past the 10 year mark so as you currently have it you should be able to continue it.

paul m.

Dealer told me I couldn't renew. I'd be quite angry if this wasn't the case!

Texas · May 20, 2019

23 hours ago, giorgoXXI said:

Dealer told me I couldn't renew. I'd be quite angry if this wasn't the case!

Prepare to go and have words!

It may be titled ' 10 Year / 140,000 Mile Warranty ' but this is the point at which you must have Started the Warranty by, see paragraph 1.1 (f) in document.

Check warranty conditions posted in a link in this thread

liambart · May 20, 2019

My 2008 ISF with 66k has a 2 year Lexus warranty that runs out in Nov this year, I had been thinking it could not be renewed this time around.

To be clear, @Texas are you saying you can renew a Lexus warranty past 10 years if the miles are under 140k and you have full Lexus history?

If so it's a weight off my mind!

giorgoXXI · May 20, 2019

33 minutes ago, Texas said:

Prepare to go and have words!

It may be titled ' 10 Year / 140,000 Mile Warranty ' but this is the point at which you must have Started the Warranty by, see paragraph 1.1 (f) in document.

Check warranty conditions posted in a link in this thread

Interesting! Goes to show how much the dealers know... still would be good if anyone actually managed to renew it after 10 years. Presumably there are quite a lot of 08 cars reaching that point.

liambart · May 20, 2019

I think point 3 on here rules out renewing 10+ year old cars?

Texas · May 21, 2019

Case in point,

This member recently sold his (beautiful) 2008 ISF with Lexus warranty to 2020!

liambart · May 21, 2019

If you take out or extend on its 10th birthday you can, but I am pretty sure you cannot continue to renew after that.

I would be very happy to be proved wrong since my 08 warrenty expires in November and I would 100% renew it if it were possible.

d3ron · May 24, 2019

So, my ISF will be 10yrs old Jan 24th 2020.

I have purchased 2 yrs warranty to begin Jan 1st 2020. All Lexus Birmingham needed was to see the car which they did when I had it serviced. They then offered me the £800 warranty for 2yrs.

My car does not have full service history.

May 25, 2019

Prepare to go and have words!
It may be titled ' 10 Year / 140,000 Mile Warranty ' but this is the point at which you must have Started the Warranty by, see paragraph 1.1 (f) in document.
Check warranty conditions posted in a link in this thread

Clause 5.3 mot protected parts will not be covered if failed due to corrosion.

Sent from my BV5800 using Tapatalk

giorgoXXI · May 25, 2019

On 5/24/2019 at 3:11 PM, d3ron said:

So, my ISF will be 10yrs old Jan 24th 2020.

I have purchased 2 yrs warranty to begin Jan 1st 2020. All Lexus Birmingham needed was to see the car which they did when I had it serviced. They then offered me the £800 warranty for 2yrs.

My car does not have full service history.

That makes sense since your car will be under 10 years old when the warranty starts. Its whether on the 1st of Jan 2022 you will be allowed to renew it again.

d3ron · May 25, 2019

41 minutes ago, giorgoXXI said:

That makes sense since your car will be under 10 years old when the warranty starts. Its whether on the 1st of Jan 2022 you will be allowed to renew it again.

I doubt I will, but at least I'll get the peace of mind for a couple of years. Should help if I decide to sell as well, not that I'm thinking of it.