LS430 Radiator Replacement

[DruLS]

Hi everyone, 

I'm going to be purchasing a new radiator from Rock Auto and I need to make sure I'm ordering the correct part. 

The current radiator in the car is marked as 5024, this is the one without the radiator cap. 

There appears to be two Denso radiators on Rock Auto, one with the tow package and one without. Part numbers 2214100 and 2213170 respectively. Both pictures appear to show these radiators use caps. Does anybody know if these are interchangeable or do I need the radiator without the cap?

Pictures of my radiator attached for reference. 

Thanks

[The-Acre]

I'm not familiar with any LS430 that doesn't have a cap. Can you post a photo of yours?  There seems to be two basic designs, one for the US and Japanese market, and the one we have in the UK. The former has a different expansion reservoir joined to the radiator, whereas the UK one has a separate expansion reservoir on the left of the engine compartment.  Unless you have an import you need the radiator with the nozzle on the far left which connects to the expansion reservoir. Nearly all of the aftermarket ones, including the US don't have that, so I'm guessing that's the most important thing to look for.  All of my three LS430's have had caps.

[messi]

Mine is a UK model ls430 and mine doesn't have a radiator cap, it has that hexagon type of thing on it

[DruLS]

2 minutes ago, messi said:

Mine is a UK model ls430 and mine doesn't have a radiator cap, it has that hexagon type of thing on it

That's what mine has, in the place where the radiator cap usually is. 

[DruLS]

More pictures of the radiator mine has. 

 

[messi]

Yep that's the same one as mine but I'm not sure which one it is on rockauto 

[DruLS]

The genuine one is a out £500 so I don't really want to do that. I'm replacing the AC condenser so thought I might as well change the radiator while I'm in there. I plan to take a long road trip in this so I'm doing a lot of preventative stuff. You think I could just use the one with the cap? Not sure if that would cause issues or not. 

Even from other suppliers the photos show radiators with caps. 

[The-Acre]

Just now, DruLS said:

The genuine one is a out £500 so I don't really want to do that. I'm replacing the AC condenser so thought I might as well change the radiator while I'm in there. I plan to take a long road trip in this so I'm doing a lot of preventative stuff. You think I could just use the one with the cap? Not sure if that would cause issues or not. 

Even from other suppliers the photos show radiators with caps. 

They clearly replaced the cap on the slightly later one but you still need to have the outlet on the far left of the radiator to connect to the reservoir.  The US one doesn't have that on either of the Rockauto pictures.  This is reservoir on the US one. If you look on eBay there are now some with the correct fitting showing a close up of the nozzle in question. I think it's one of the first ones listed. Have a look and you'll see what I mean.

 

 

[DruLS]

7 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

They clearly replaced the cap on the slightly later one but you still need to have the outlet on the far left of the radiator to connect to the reservoir.  The US one doesn't have that on either of the Rockauto pictures.  This is reservoir on the US one. If you look on eBay there are now some with the correct fitting showing a close up of the nozzle in question. I think it's one of the first ones listed. Have a look and you'll see what I mean.

 

 

You're right. Looks like it's either a no-name eBay part or a genuine one. I'll just inspect the current one when I'm changing the condenser. 

[The-Acre]

The first one listed on eBay is the correct pattern, the second one isn't which is the Rockauto pattern. The main thing to be concerned about is corrosion around the connections where the trans fluid hoses join the radiator. I would replace it without question, it could save you a lot of money and hassle in the long run.

[DruLS]

1 hour ago, The-Acre said:

The first one listed on eBay is the correct pattern, the second one isn't which is the Rockauto pattern. The main thing to be concerned about is corrosion around the connections where the trans fluid hoses join the radiator. I would replace it without question, it could save you a lot of money and hassle in the long run.

Might as well considering I'm doing the condenser anyway. Cheers!

[The-Acre]

11 hours ago, DruLS said:

Might as well considering I'm doing the condenser anyway. Cheers!

Just for reference, this is the danger area!

[DruLS]

11 hours ago, The-Acre said:

Just for reference, this is the danger area!

What is that? Is it on the radiator or the condenser? 

[The-Acre]

39 minutes ago, DruLS said:

What is that? Is it on the radiator or the condenser? 

Sorry, I should have said. It's the connection on the radiator, one each side for the transmission cooling. As you can see they start to rust and expand allowing coolant to mix with transmission fluid causing failure.  Also I believe the two inner o rings can eventually fail causing the same problem.  That's why changing the radiator on an LS430/460 makes much sense, or just fit an oil cooler and bypass the radiator altogether, both easy jobs to do.

[DruLS]

43 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

Sorry, I should have said. It's the connection on the radiator, one each side for the transmission cooling. As you can see they start to rust and expand allowing coolant to mix with transmission fluid causing failure.  Also I believe the two inner o rings can eventually fail causing the same problem.  That's why changing the radiator on an LS430/460 makes much sense, or just fit an oil cooler and bypass the radiator altogether, both easy jobs to do.

Already have an oil cooler, just waiting to be fitted.

[The-Acre]

9 hours ago, DruLS said:

Already have an oil cooler, just waiting to be fitted.

Is that instead of the radiator for transmission cooling or an addition for towing?

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[messi]

That first radiator on eBay is the correct one for the ls430 and it's a good quality radiator. I remember someone on here buying one and some one on the lex nation forum also bought one without any issues. I think it's oe quality or maybe better 

[GrahamG]

What confuses and concerns me is how does the radiator without the traditional cap regulate pressure. I read an article about how a normal cap regulates pressure and was surprised to learn it has a twofold function [in the heating and cooling phases] and was not as simple as I had assumed.

That is why I am reluctant to replace my [normal cap] radiator with what I have seen on eBay having no 'cap on neck' but with the same/correct overflow spigot on the top offside corner of the rad.

When obtaining a quote for a replacement from Lexus they asked for the number stamped on my rad, "because there are two different types on UK LS430s".

The USA 'towing option' refers to a thicker core. It is only a little thicker and when I looked some time ago on RockAuto it was cheaper than the non towing version!?

I have decided to leave my rad alone because it looks superficially to be in excellent condition. Each year the ATF is drained and filled  not flushed and filled] and perhaps if there is contamination it will then be noticed before disaster.

On advice from Lexus Guildford if the transmission starts to misbehave I will immediately have the problem diagnosed.

[messi]

On advice from Lexus Guildford if the transmission starts to misbehave I will immediately have the problem diagnosed

by that time  it may be too late to save the gearbox.

[GrahamG]

Yes Qamar you might well be right.

Lexus Guildford reported 4 cases of  LS430 gear box failures of this nature; 2 were right offs but another two were saved when faulty behaviour was reported by the owner. So perhaps I  have a chance given that the ATF is being inspected each year although even then I have been told if you can see contamination it is too late for the box.

I was considering a quote of about £800 from Lexus to renew my rad when I read on the USA club site of three OEM Denso rads being replaced one after the other within three years by a Lexus main agent. I then phoned a specialist auto transmission company intending them to fit a separate cooler but was advised strongly to fit OEM. An independent cooler has no thermostat, it will not warm the oil at start up in the winter and do you want to be stuck in a summer traffic jam with it.

Preventative maintenance is always my preference but in this instance I am falling back on,' if it ain't broke...'. After all what would it cost to throw in a second hand unit from Paul Frost? Even have the car trucked up north for him to swap it over.

 

[Tulpen]

As some of you know, I live in Holland and since 2001 have had my Lexus cars - first a 400 and now a 460 - serviced by my local Lexus dealer. I trust them....they do not overcharge and have always given me good advice.

My 460 is coming up to the 160,000km (100,000 miles) point and, having read about the possible radiator problems, I decided to have the rad changed at the next service in August. The first thing the garage asked was 'Why?'. I explained what I'd read and they told me they had never seen that problem here. However, they said they were more than happy to take my money if I insisted.

A couple of weeks ago the Service Manager phoned and said that, because there are so few 430s and 460s in Holland, he had contacted Lexus in Germany and Belgium to see if they had encountered the problem. The consensus of opinion seems to be that, if the rad is drained flushed and re-filled with the correct fluid at the recommended intervals, there should be no problem.

So.…….I have a few months to decide what to do. My Lexus has been serviced by the dealer since new. What I would like to know is if anyone on here has had the problem, having had their rad serviced as per the Lexus schedule. I know that, because of the ridiculous prices charged by Lexus UK, many of you use an indy or DIY.  While not criticising your indy or your own skills, I'd really like to hear from anyone who has had their car serviced solely by Lexus.

I'm sure there are lots of apocryphal tales and 'my mate said' but that doesn't really answer the question. For instance, the four cases in Guildford - were the cars serviced from new by Lexus, or were they brought in just to get fixed?

Thanks, in advance.

PS, a 460 owner on the USA forum said he'd encountered oil in the rad water at 120,000 miles. I PM'd him and he said that he had been doing his own servicing from the 50,000 mile point. He admitted to not carrying out the recommended procedures - although he had partly drained the rad and refilled it with an 'equivalent' fluid.

 

[The-Acre]

All very interesting reading.  All I can say is having replaced the radiators on my three LS's there was one that clearly was in danger.  I'm not sure how flushing the radiator regularly would have helped as the corrosion was starting on the outside and was fairly severe in places, not the radiator itself but the connections on it. My last one was full main dealer serviced and looked OK, although it spent its life garaged. I'm sure we concern ourselves too much with these "what if" issues.  I did replace my current one, although having lived its life in Japan probably wasn't needed.  It did however mean that like my previous ones I was able to give it new Toyota coolant and replace the transmission rubber hoses, as on a previous one a hose was split and not far off breaking.

[Malc]

save yourself a few hundred £££ and not to change it then

AND then maybe spend several thousands ££££ replacing the gearbox and the radiator, unless you write the car off because of it

your choice and your decision

there are posts on here about the fragility of the system that Lexus just will NOT acknowledge

Malc

I did a post a few months back about a chap I met locally who had suffered the same fate with his Ls430 and then bought a Ls460 and thought  ~ " it cannot happen again "

well, it did and cost him £3000  ( F16LEX )  or summat

[Tulpen]

12 minutes ago, Malc said:

save yourself a few hundred £££ and not to change it then

AND then maybe spend several thousands ££££ replacing the gearbox and the radiator, unless you write the car off because of it

your choice and your decision

there are posts on here about the fragility of the system that Lexus just will NOT acknowledge

Malc

I did a post a few months back about a chap I met locally who had suffered the same fate with his Ls430 and then bought a Ls460 and thought  ~ " it cannot happen again "

well, it did and cost him £3000  ( F16LEX )  or summat

Thanks for that Malc………..but, again, how were the cars serviced?  I must admit, I'm tending towards getting it changed but, as I said, I'm trying to get some really accurate info.