Why upgrade?

[Shepherd]

Hi guys

I have a 54 plate RX300 SE just hit 130k. I have no complaints other than fuel economy. When I bought it I was doing just 11 miles a day. That changed a year ago and my average mileage went to about 25 a day mostly motorway. So the fuel bill hurts. In town it's doing about 17mpg in winters. On motorway it's doing about 24mpg.

I have been looking to moving to one of the later hybrids 450h but  from pictures they don't look any different. I am guessing motorway mpg will not be much different? Yeah outside is different but inside seats, boot, satnav etc all look same. Considering they cost nearly 4 times as much to what I paid for the 300 a couple of years ago I am confused if upgrading is any benefit or should I just keep using the 300 and if it dies buy another one of same age? I really don't mind how it looks. For me important bits are boot size and comfort.

Any one who has made the upgrade can enlighten me how they found the difference between them?

[flookyk]

I have not had an RX300 so cannot compare but I have had my RX450 over a year and a half now and average just under 30mpg for mixed driving.

Can get it up to over 35mpg on the motorways and a steady journey but if the road clears the mpg goes down a bit (wont say why )

The Satnav is full post code (don't know the RX300) - have had mine updated from the original 2011 to 2017 maps.

Very comfortable on any journey.

[katabrontes]

I made this decision last year when I looked at a 2013 450H in a local Lexus dealer.  I curently have a 2006 350 which I like very much and has been trouble free since I bought it in 2013.  It has done about 60K miles. The swap would have cost about £16K.  What would I get for the money ?

I have a very nice car which I like a lot and does all that I require.  The only significant difference, to me, was the redesign of the door cills which formed part of the door so that as you exit the car you do not scrape your calf on the cill.  A small benefit for a substantial sum.

True, there would be a small saving on petrol and car tax but you get a lot of petrol for £16K!

I decided I could have more fun with the money or " give it to the kids".  I doubt I will regret the decision.  I will keep the 350 for another few years and then change it for a 2015 (last of the nicer looking front end) with nearly all the other useful upgrades of later versions.

I made a similar decision when I bought the 350.  A 450 of the same age and condition would have cost about £8K more.  The same arguments persuaded me to buy the 350 in spite of the slightly higher running costs ( about £650 a year at my current annual mileage).  I haven't regretted it.  The recent hike in secondhand values of hybrids, and presumably a corresponding drop in petrol versions, doesn't bother me.

[katabrontes]

PS as I understand it the cost of a map upgrade for a Lexus is about the same, or more, than a new TomTom which has lifetime free upgrades and sits on the top of the fascia closer to your eyeline when driving.

[Shepherd]

thanks for you comments. As for maps I hardly use the onboard satnav. I have google maps on my phone on and that works so well.

I like the screen though for trip info and general over view of where I am on a map

[Herbie]

We moved from a 2005 RX300 SE NAV to a late 2013 (63-plate) RX450h Advance and the 450h is a whole order of magnitude better in every respect; faster, roomier, quieter, more comfortable and luxurious, and better fuel economy - but then, there is 8 years between them so you'd expect that.

Having said that, the only reason we changed is that we came into a bit of money and it made sense to get a newer, better car to see us well into our retirement. If we were 20 years younger we'd just keep the 300 and run it until it died. It had 79k on the clock when we bought it and I was looking forward to putting at least another 100k on it but like I said, for us, it made sense to change.

Reading your post, if you're happy with the car and your only concern is the fuel economy, I'd say keep the 300 and have it converted to LPG because it sounds like there's enough life left in the car for the conversion to pay for itself a couple of times over. You get less miles per gallon with LPG so you have to fill up more often but because it's cheaper than petrol, you end up not spending as much.

A quick example is that we did a European road trip for our holidays, driving from Lancashire, through Belgium, Germany and into our main destination countries of Czech Republic and Poland. Taking note of prices as we travelled, when we arrived back home we discovered that if we'd used just petrol, fuel cost would have been over £900, but doing it on LPG actually cost us about £450 - £460. It's well worth thinking about if you want to keep the 300.

[katabrontes]

Until HMG puts up the tax on LPG!

[Herbie]

9 minutes ago, katabrontes said:

Until HMG puts up the tax on LPG!

The tax will inevitably go up but it will keep the same differential between petrol and LPG or it would decimate the conversion market in one fell swoop. There has to be the price difference between petrol and LPG for the industry to work. Given that LPG is a by-product of petrol production they'd rather have a market for it and make money from it rather than killing that market off.

[katabrontes]

You may be right.  However as moves to electric cars increase the yield from petrol and diesel tax will fall encouraging our new generation "pis squeak" chancellor ( who I hope won't be around for much longer) to plug the gap with a tax hike on LPG as well as a move to put a premium tax on electricity for charging cars.  Alternatively fuel tax could be replaced by a mileage tax in which case the differential would all but disappear.

All a bit speculative I agree.

[Fsport]

Keep the RX300.  Despite the mpg it will be much cheaper than upgrading.

I have owned a 2005 RX300 for 8 ish yrs now and will keep it till it dies   I expect at least another 5 years of trouble free motoring if not 10 years.

Of the newer RX models only the 2016 MY takes my fancy.  However not paying the £30K price for these models especially when a good 2005 RX cost approx £3k.  Would rather use the difference on living life.

[RgrWynne]

Bear in mind that fuel cost is a small part of the overall cost of running a car. Unless you are doing a high mileage,  lpg conversion is a big risk, involving a not unsubstantial cost, and not everybody wishes to go travelling to Poland to prove a point.There are hidden costs and risks that are well published. Good luck with your decision, but running a very reliable car until it expires is your cheapest option.

[Richard Fixter]

On 4/30/2019 at 3:01 PM, katabrontes said:

Until HMG puts up the tax on LPG!

Unlikely imagine the Climate alarmists uproar at putting up Tax on what is a green fuel. 

[Shepherd]

Thanks all

I think I'll take this option and keep the RX. I did look at LPG a awhile ago but I think it's too risky at this time and I don't do crazy miles still. I love the car. As Herbie said there is big difference in comfort etc but the 300 is still quite good. I have had a later model IS220d and IS250 before and toys wise the RX is at par. It's only missing the keyless entry which I did like a lot.

Also missing the sporty driving of the IS but then do really need the boot space and one can't have it all.

[Neil E]

21 hours ago, Shepherd said:

Thanks all

I think I'll take this option and keep the RX. I did look at LPG a awhile ago but I think it's too risky at this time and I don't do crazy miles still. I love the car. As Herbie said there is big difference in comfort etc but the 300 is still quite good. I have had a later model IS220d and IS250 before and toys wise the RX is at par. It's only missing the keyless entry which I did like a lot.

Also missing the sporty driving of the IS but then do really need the boot space and one can't have it all.

Can't one? Keep the RX300 and buy a cheap reliable 'sporty' car to use when you don't need a boot. All for much less than it would cost to upgrade to a newish 450H. I use the RX most of the time but when the mood takes me, jump in the V8....and the mpg is actually better than the RX.

[olliesgrandad]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:31 AM, Shepherd said:

Hi guys

I have a 54 plate RX300 SE just hit 130k. I have no complaints other than fuel economy. When I bought it I was doing just 11 miles a day. That changed a year ago and my average mileage went to about 25 a day mostly motorway. So the fuel bill hurts. In town it's doing about 17mpg in winters. On motorway it's doing about 24mpg.

I have been looking to moving to one of the later hybrids 450h but  from pictures they don't look any different. I am guessing motorway mpg will not be much different? Yeah outside is different but inside seats, boot, satnav etc all look same. Considering they cost nearly 4 times as much to what I paid for the 300 a couple of years ago I am confused if upgrading is any benefit or should I just keep using the 300 and if it dies buy another one of same age? I really don't mind how it looks. For me important bits are boot size and comfort.

Any one who has made the upgrade can enlighten me how they found the difference between them?

Haven't made the upgrade but my 2015 RX450h currently is averaging 35mpg tankful to tankful so considerably better than 25mpg. I do around 500 miles a week both motorway and b road.

[DanD]

On 5/2/2019 at 9:20 PM, Neil E said:

Can't one? Keep the RX300 and buy a cheap reliable 'sporty' car to use when you don't need a boot. All for much less than it would cost to upgrade to a newish 450H. I use the RX most of the time but when the mood takes me, jump in the V8....and the mpg is actually better than the RX.

Or you keep your beloved RX300 and could use the £16k to buy a cheap runabout to take care of your commute. A  second hand full EV like the acclaimed Renault Zoe would be perfect.

[Neil E]

12 hours ago, DanD said:

Or you keep your beloved RX300 and could use the £16k to buy a cheap runabout to take care of your commute. A  second hand full EV like the acclaimed Renault Zoe would be perfect.

Yes, however the Zoe may not satisfy that missing 'sporty driving' element that the RX doesn't provide.

[i-s]

You might be surprised - EVs are extremely "zippy", and my Nissan Leaf is considerably more engaging for spirited driving (especially in a commuting, in-town, zip out of junction, quick merge, etc kind of way) than many an ICE vehicle. The very low centre of gravity and 50:50 weight distribution (properly within the wheelbase, not by having big heavy bits at both ends, aka the BMW method) mean it grips well and is actually really good fun to drive. There's also very much the element of surprise with that car. 

It's also up for sale 🙂

[DanD]

Yes, you might be surprised. I have driven a Zoe on a number of occasions (only in town and b-roads though) and it made me smile every time. Definitely worth a test drive, but make sure you try it on m-way too.