IS 250: I never knew!

rich1068 · April 29, 2019

It seems fairly obvious now I can see the title of this sub-section up there ^^^ but I honestly did not know that Lexus briefly offered the third generation/XE30 with the 4GR-FSE V6 from the previous IS. I was vaguely aware they did a 2 litre turbo (did Lexus see it as a replacement for the V6?) but really all you hear about is the 300h. Some idle browsing on Autotrader shows these V6 third gen ISs to be a rare beast but what are they like? Anyone on here have one? And the 200t? On paper it looks like a nice enough motor, 240bhp and 350nm through presumably the rear wheels. What's not to like?

ganzoom · April 30, 2019

Both the V6 and 2.0 turbo versions of the IS are comprehensively out formed by their equivalent competition from other brands.

VAG are upto 300bhp+ very reliably on their 2L turbo units, and NA V6s are dead as the Dodo these days due to poor economy and emissions.

The USP of the whole Lexus brand is been able to offer diesel economy but using hybrid tech on petrol engines, and doing it more reliably than anyone else.

Very few people bought an IS witha V6 or 2.0 Turbo engine as a result, if you want a V6 or blown 2.0 unit there are much better products available from BMW/VAG/Merc etc.

rich1068 · April 30, 2019

I agree they're probably outperformed but I know which brand I'd go for and it wouldn't be German. Having driven all the mainstream German marques since passing my test 30+ years ago but only recently dipping my toe into Lexus/Japanese cars I would challenge your comment that there are "better" products available.

I pay absolutely no attention to the majority of reviews and my daily drive doesn't include the Nurburgring at any point so I've a feeling a 200t would be rather nice. 245bhp through the rear wheels sounds pretty good to me. And as I don't do huge mileages and like to enjoy my drive rather than worry about the fuel economy a 250 sounds even better!

I take it by the general lack of responses we don't have owners of either car on here?

DanD · April 30, 2019

I believe that the 250 was originally offered as an alternative to the 300h and in the hope to retain owners of the previous IS250 as customers. I also believe that the 250 was eventually replaced with the 200T because the 250 was uneconomical and also fell foul of emission regulations. It was discontinued because it did not sell well and because it no longer supported the brand's ethos.

noby76 · April 30, 2019

3 hours ago, rich1068 said:

I pay absolutely no attention to the majority of reviews and my daily drive doesn't include the Nurburgring at any point so I've a feeling a 200t would be rather nice. 245bhp through the rear wheels sounds pretty good to me. And as I don't do huge mileages and like to enjoy my drive rather than worry about the fuel economy a 250 sounds even better!

245bhp and 350NM is more than enough... will be more reliable and will be exclusively rare on UK roads.. whats not to like..

doog442 · April 30, 2019

3 hours ago, rich1068 said:

I agree they're probably outperformed but I know which brand I'd go for and it wouldn't be German. Having driven all the mainstream German marques since passing my test 30+ years ago but only recently dipping my toe into Lexus/Japanese cars I would challenge your comment that there are "better" products available.

I pay absolutely no attention to the majority of reviews and my daily drive doesn't include the Nurburgring at any point so I've a feeling a 200t would be rather nice. 245bhp through the rear wheels sounds pretty good to me. And as I don't do huge mileages and like to enjoy my drive rather than worry about the fuel economy a 250 sounds even better!

I take it by the general lack of responses we don't have owners of either car on here?

Strangely enough I part ex'd my IS200t for a BMW 340i seven months ago. However it would be unfair to compare a 2 litre turbo against a 3 litre turbo, the problem is that Lexus offer nothing in the UK that does compare.

One of the reasons for change was the B58 engine and 8 speed auto (an absolutely sublime combination ) and if the B58 is good enough for a Supra then its good enough for me even with my Lexus history / values.It really is a great bit of kit. so I would certainly argue that there are better products available, however that depends on the definition of the word 'better'.

I've had no issues with the current car and likewise I had zero issues with the BMW135i I had before the IS200t so perhaps I'm lucky. As you say the IS200t is no slouch but it needs to be permanently in Sports mode to have acceptable performance or it demonstrates a sluggish side that can temper even the enjoyment of pottering around town. I would describe throttle response as its main gripe, or lack of it but you get used to it.

Build quality appears on a par with the Lexus, performance is naturally on a different planet, infotainment and sound system (Harmon Karden) far superior. The car is more refined (due to the six pot), economy is on a par despite the different sized engines. I really enjoyed the IS200t but nowadays like to change my cars every few years. As mentioned above its quite exclusive, looks good and I could certainly sleep at night without worrying about reliability.

If I go totally sensible I wouldn't hesitate to get an IS300h and that may or may not happen, likewise the complete other way and get an RCF. Life's too short 😉

route66 · April 30, 2019

I forgot about the V6 engined version.

One for sale on Autotrader here

Looking at the specs in the above, I think the only thing it has to offer over the 300H is engine smoothness with its V6 and top speed because it doesn't have any eCVT restrictions; everything else is average or poor ...

Gary T · April 30, 2019

The 2 litre turbo is still available in other markets, such as the USA and Australia although it appears to have changed it's name from IS200t to IS300 recently. Not to be confused with the US market IS300 AWD which has a detuned 3.5 litre engine!

The IS 250 and 200t were only ever a small percentage of Gen 3 IS sold in the UK, I suspect that the higher powered petrol versions of equivalent German cars are also a small percentage of the total but as their sales overall are so much larger its worthwhile keeping them on the price list. I recall once seeing that the BMW 320d outsold the 330d by a factor of 20 so I can imagine the 340i would sell even less.

Linas.P · April 30, 2019

6 hours ago, DanD said:

replaced with the 200T because the 250 was uneconomical and also fell foul of emission regulations. It was discontinued because it did not sell well and because it no longer supported the brand's ethos.

"it" I assume you mean IS200t? It is best selling IS in US and China, they call it IS300 there and not 200t. Lexus as well offers IS350 mk3 with the same engine from IS350 mk2, obviously not in UK - those are best sellers in middle-east and second best sellers in US.

As well not sure I agree with your point regarding emissions - there is that caveat that turbo charged engines has advantages due to flawed testing methodology over NA.

I must admit that by 2013 IS250 (4GR-FSE) was outdated and uncompetitive, it wasn't bad engine just needed a little bit of modernisation - like Lexus did for 2GR-FSE >FKS - added Atkinson cycle and revise the maps.

I think they should have based 300h on 4GR-"FKS" instead of 4L 2.5 they did - now 300h is really bland design.

In my logic Lexus upgraded IS220/200d with IS300h, which looking from that perspective was worthy upgrade... IS300h is way better then IS220/200d.

Then they continued IS250 some time with same engine and replaced it with effectively worse IS200t (I have my own theories why IS200t feels so bad).

@rich1068 - have you noticed GS250 mk4 - it as well has 4GR-FSE, but is actually more affordable than both IS200t and IS250 nowadays. Massively, underpowered car, but compared to other two not so bad.

rich1068 · April 30, 2019

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

have you noticed GS250 mk4 - it as well has 4GR-FSE, but is actually more affordable than both IS200t and IS250 nowadays. Massively, underpowered car, but compared to other two not so bad.

I have not. I plan to disappear down that particular Autotrader rabbit hole momentarily

rich1068 · May 1, 2019

I have now completed my trip down the rabbit hole and I've decided that if I was to buy another Lexus it would be a GS250 £14k for a sub-20k mile car with full Lexus history and all the guarantees that come with it? Oh yes, I think so.

Waft-o-Matic :thumbsup:

noby76 · May 2, 2019

don't overlook a late model MK3 GS300 ..they are quicker and most importantly have more torque to shift the weight when compared to the GS250 and mpg figures are near identical.. yes you will pay more for road tax but they can be acquired for lesser money that the GS250 so money saved on initial purchase price can be used to pay for road tax and even that you will still be quids in ... worth test driving one for the fun of it to compare to the GS250

ColinBarber · May 2, 2019

GS MK4 is much more modern than the MK3. Much better handling and ride quality due to the improved chassis.

ColinBarber · May 2, 2019

On 4/29/2019 at 8:48 AM, rich1068 said:

And the 200t? On paper it looks like a nice enough motor, 240bhp and 350nm through presumably the rear wheels. What's not to like?

Didn't sell well because it had poor economy and quite high emissions compared to competition at the time. Most owners (not that there are many - literally less than 140) certainly prefer it to the 250, with maybe the exception of the transmission which can be a bit fussy.

LexusFanBoy · January 1, 2020

On 5/2/2019 at 10:55 PM, ColinBarber said:

.... with maybe the exception of the transmission which can be a bit fussy.

which transmission is fussy? the one coming with 200t?

Bratman91 · January 1, 2020

I bought a new IS250 a few months after they came in the market. It wasn’t a top-of-the-range (TOTR) model and I was persuaded by my wife to upgrade to what I think was a 2nd Generation TOTR IS250 - an absolutely superb car in every respect. After three years, a drunk driver (not me!) hit me head on and severely restyled my car. He paid with his life. I needed a replacement quickly and the 3rd generation IS250/IS300H had just been introduced. I was offered an IS300H at only slightly more cost than a TOTR IS250 (presumably to kick-start purchases of the hybrid) but, having been so satisfied with the 2nd Generation IS250 and somewhat underwhelmed by the IS300H in comparison, I decided to stick with the 250. I have never regretted it. However, I must be honest and say that, after 7 years, the car has just clocked 25,000 miles so fuel costs are not a significant feature of my analysis.