111000 miles CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM

[Concorde1]

Hello everyone, my first posting here , so hope I get the format right !

Yesterday , after several years of fault-free driving of my GS450h , the engine management light came on, but the car continued normally. I drove it for 30mins.

Several hours later , it started ok , everything appeared normal ( apart from the said engine mgmnt light) ,Then I heard an odd noise from the boot, and the exclamation triangle came on with the associated "check hybrid system" warning message. On the Energy/Consumption middle main display- 3 blue bars were indicated,

flow arrows were moving around the engine/battery/electric motor/axles as normal, apart  from no directional arrows out of the Battery .I pulled over.

Nothing appeared untoward at the Battery site, or the other control box areas in the boot.

I continued  for 20 mins. 3 bars became 4 - then 1 ..... panic !  then the dash lit up like a xmas tree ! - engine died on me .

A road-side recovery guy put diagnostics on it and said "the Battery is not keeping its charge -it must be the alternator " - This car , I believe doesn't have one ! ???

Many other faults came up -not surprising as hardly any juice in the Battery....I have sent it to my local Lexus$$$$ dealer , any thoughts ??   new Battery ??

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[AmbroseJohn]

A new 12v Battery would be my first thought. All sorts of strange things happen if it's not in top condition.

[AmbroseJohn]

BTW don't buy one from Lexus. Just buy the most powerful one that will fit but don't forget to attach the the temp sensor to the top of it.

[NemesisUK]

Once started the 12v Battery does nothing but accept charge from the hybrid Battery. So I would have thought the 12v Battery would only show a fault at start-up?

@Concorde1 do you mean the hybrid Battery has no charge or the 12v Battery?

[AmbroseJohn]

The 12v runs the system computers. Starting is done by the traction motor as there is no conventional starter motor.

 

[Concorde1]

Thanks John for your replies,

Yes , I realize how expensive this fix could/will be. My local garage did it's mot & service, but as they are not Hybrid - trained , they couldn't do the Hybrid Health check,

and the car is 11 yrs. old without warranty...will have to see what Lexus discover in the diagnostics.

Thanks again.

 

[NemesisUK]

2 minutes ago, AmbroseJohn said:

The 12v runs the system computers. Starting is done by the traction motor as there is no conventional starter motor.

 

Which is what I meant in my clumsy way!

I realise there is no starter (or alternator) in a hybrid system.

The 12v starts the computers, to get the hybrid system running after which all electrics comes from the hybrid Battery, the 12v essential becomes dormant, just being recharged by the hybrid battery 

[Concorde1]

Peter , thanks,  it's the Hybrid Battery.

sorry , totally new to Hybrids, my 11 previous cars were "old-school" !

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Concorde1 said:

Thanks John for your replies,

Yes , I realize how expensive this fix could/will be. My local garage did it's mot & service, but as they are not Hybrid - trained , they couldn't do the Hybrid Health check,

and the car is 11 yrs. old without warranty...will have to see what Lexus discover in the diagnostics.

Thanks again.

 

Hybrid Battery(HB) is now covered for 15 years Malcolm, so get it Tested by Lexus if this problem is not related to the HB.

[AmbroseJohn]

So you're saying that once the system is started, you can disconnect the 12v Battery because everything then runs off the traction Battery?

The number of people who have solved problems by changing the 12v Battery, would suggest otherwise.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, AmbroseJohn said:

So you're saying that once the system is started, you can disconnect the 12v battery because everything then runs off the traction battery?

The number of people who have solved problems by changing the 12v battery, would suggest otherwise.

i DID NOT READ THAT INTO WHAT PETER SAID JOHN.

[AmbroseJohn]

3 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

i DID NOT READ THAT INTO WHAT PETER SAID JOHN.

I thought he was indicating the 12v Battery does nothing after the system has started, which is most certainly not the case.

[Concorde1]

4 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Hybrid Battery(HB) is now covered for 15 years Malcolm, so get it Tested by Lexus if this problem is not related to the HB.

John , thanks,

Lexus checked my car's history, and said as it hasn't been serviced by a main dealer in the last 5 years, and hasn't had the aforementioned HHC, the Hybrid Battery "may not"

be covered.He seemed supportive, and indicated that all is not lost..............we shall $$$see !

[NemesisUK]

4 minutes ago, AmbroseJohn said:

I thought he was indicating the 12v battery does nothing after the system has started, which is most certainly not the case.

Happy to be educated John, just from reading the tech docs for my car I came away with the understanding that the hybrid supplies all electrical power once up and running.

Does the car not have an inverter that steps down the traction Battery voltage to 12v to run stuff like heated seats etc? (my terminology may not be correct, sorry)

[Farqui]

It's true that the HHC has been extended to 15 years and is completely independent of Lexus servicing.  Mine is 11 years old and I just had mine checked.

However I suspect that if your traction Battery is busted when you have the check done, that Lexus will not then cover the cost of any repairs.  But they would if the traction Battery failure was within 1 year of the HHC being passed.

Good luck getting your issue resolved Malcolm, I hope it's as simple/cheap as a new 12v Battery.

[Concorde1]

10 minutes ago, AmbroseJohn said:

So you're saying that once the system is started, you can disconnect the 12v battery because everything then runs off the traction battery?

The number of people who have solved problems by changing the 12v battery, would suggest otherwise.

good idea John , In hindsight , I wished I had tested that before the flat-bed took it away, but like I mentioned at the beginning of this topic, I am green to Hybrids and didn't want to mess with anything, for fear of making it worse.

[AmbroseJohn]

4 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Happy to be educated John, just from reading the tech docs for my car I came away with the understanding that the hybrid supplies all electrical power once up and running.

Does the car not have an inverter that steps down the traction battery voltage to 12v to run stuff like heated seats etc? (my terminology may not be correct, sorry)

The 12v Battery fires up the computers and the engine is started by the hybrid system. The 12v Battery is also charged by the system as there is no conventional starter or alternator. One would think that once it's all up and running the charging system would also power all the 12v systems, irrespective of Battery condition (like a conventional car) but it doesn't appear to be the case.

[NemesisUK]

9 minutes ago, AmbroseJohn said:

One would think that once it's all up and running the charging system would also power all the 12v systems, irrespective of battery condition (like a conventional car) but it doesn't appear to be the case.

One would think this and it's the impression I got from various docs. The hybrid voltage goes through the "step down inverter" to charge the Battery and also power all the 12v systems.

Sitting in the car with all the bells and whistles running would place a massive drain on the 12v Battery, only for it to be instantly recharged by the hybrid Battery seems a very quick way to kill the 12v Battery? Makes more sense to have the 12v trickle charged (to replenish the relatively insignificant start-up drain) and feed to power hungry accessories from the hybrid Battery, via the "inverter"?

[Herbie]

32 minutes ago, AmbroseJohn said:

The 12v battery fires up the computers and the engine is started by the hybrid system. The 12v battery is also charged by the system as there is no conventional starter or alternator. One would think that once it's all up and running the charging system would also power all the 12v systems, irrespective of battery condition (like a conventional car) but it doesn't appear to be the case.

That is exactly how it works.

In a 'normal' car the 12V Battery cranks the starter motor and fires the engine. Once the engine is running and the alternator is spinning, the alternator supplies all of the car's electrical demands and, providing there is 'spare' capacity, it will also keep the 12V Battery charged up.

In a hybrid there is no alternator so the traction Battery feeds a DC/DC inverter, the output of which is in the region of 13.5 to 14.2V (if I remember correctly) which then meets all the car's electrical demands and, providing there is enough 'spare' capacity, also keeps the 12V Battery charged up.

[Concorde1]

47 minutes ago, Farqui said:

It's true that the HHC has been extended to 15 years and is completely independent of Lexus servicing.  Mine is 11 years old and I just had mine checked.

However I suspect that if your traction battery is busted when you have the check done, that Lexus will not then cover the cost of any repairs.  But they would if the traction battery failure was within 1 year of the HHC being passed.

Good luck getting your issue resolved Malcolm, I hope it's as simple/cheap as a new 12v battery.

Thanks Lee , sadly the HHC was passed well over 1 year ago. " expect the worst -you will never be dissapointed ! "