Where is promised exquisite interior?!

[Linas.P]

53 minutes ago, fetchez la vache said:

Firstly, E class and ES are preceusly in the same segment.<....> same level as an ES Fsport Takumi, again , it’s a £50k plus motor...

Only according to Lexus themselves...No... they are nowhere near 5-Series BMW, E-Class MB... As I have said previously, they have shoot themselves in the face (not even a foot) with this "misplacement".... At first it seems like cheeky marketing pushing clearly inferiour car half-class above where it should be, but then when you see review it always comes last, because it is simply not there with the leaders... heck GS failed there and GS was arguably much better car. If Lexus would have placed ES where it belongs - 4-Series GC, CLA, Arteon, A5 Coupe.. they would be more like for like and would thus be more favourably reviewed.

And the pricing is simply wrong E220d with Driving Assistance Package Plus and Premium Package Plus is 43,235 OTR (E200 is another £400 cheaper). And I am sorry to say.. Merc is just better car all around, it is actually better equipped (360 camera, panoramic roof... ohh and multimedia which actually works... and has apple and android integration). You can throw another £1895 and have air suspension (which is superior compared to ES) and still come at solid £44100 OTR, below ES Takumi at £45655..

Fair to say... in 5 years time Merc will succumb to never ending list of faults and expensive repairs, coal fired engine is fairly terrible proposition (although I see no issued going for E200 petrol which is still very efficient and does 0-60 in 7.7... not horrendous 9.2 like Lexus). But who cares? New premium car are almost always bough on lease so anything after 3 years doesn't really matter.

I was trashing ES for months here and just though - it would be fair to try the car I was trashing so much... maybe I was wrong? No.. it is exactly very disappointing car and press gives it fairy cold reviews, not because they biased, but because it is not that great of an offer. Merc at least have "real aluminium" it is base spec... we talking aluminium... aluminium used to be poverty spec. option on premium cars (still is in Merc world)... Lexus has Pasti-linium... they could not even stretch for poverty spec in ES. I am not even talkign about "open pore" wood in higher speced Mercs... On Lexus that is not even an option.

In the end I am really really sad... I really like Lexus as a brand, I like reliability of their cars... but what is the point of it if everything is so terrible... terrible engine choice (what choice!!! you can have 300h or 300h) and now terrible cabin as well (in comparison of course). Current, generation of Lexus cars is just so disappointing and sad - you might not believe, but would like to be positive about their cars. I just can't!

[ColinBarber]

On 3/29/2019 at 4:44 PM, Linas.P said:

The "aluminium" in inserts are just textured plastic

No they are specially made aluminium. They just don't look like cheap stuff MB use.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/11/02/the-story-of-the-lexus-es-samurai-inspired-hadori-trim/

 

[dutchie01]

Some background info on the performance of the new ES model. Global ES sales end March 2019 are up 25% compared to last year and in its biggest market the States it is the best selling saloon almost reaching NX volume. The RX remains the number one best seller. So far the car seems to receive a warm welcome in the markets. 

[Habu]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

No they are specially made aluminium. They just don't look like cheap stuff MB use.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/11/02/the-story-of-the-lexus-es-samurai-inspired-hadori-trim/

 

Yes, correct, the car is described as having aluminium trim, not aluminium-effect trim.

[noby76]

36 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Some background info on the performance of the new ES model. Global ES sales end March 2019 are up 25% compared to last year and in its biggest market the States it is the best selling saloon almost reaching NX volume. The RX remains the number one best seller. So far the car seems to receive a warm welcome in the markets. 

Is there any information on the better selling ES in terms of engine and spec in the states since they have both the ES350 and 300h for sale? 

[dutchie01]

Just now, noby76 said:

Is there any information on the better selling ES in terms of engine and spec in the states since they have both the ES350 and 300h for sale? 

Global forecast 2019 for the ES 300H is only 15% of total ES sales.  Have not seen detailed US figures yet 

[fetchez la vache]

Linas.p, I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.  I have to admit, I’m really happy with my ES, to me it’s a reliable and comfortable cruiser, with a fantastic hifi, low company car tax and nice and safe for the kids. It will also be a very rare sight in the UK and I kinda like that exclusively. Equally, I can understand those who are disappointed if it doesn’t quite tick all their boxes.  I’ve got 4-5 years and about 100,000 miles to put it through its paces.

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No they are specially made aluminium. They just don't look like cheap stuff MB use.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/11/02/the-story-of-the-lexus-es-samurai-inspired-hadori-trim/

I cannot argue with that, but I tapped it several times as I could not believe it was plastic... and I was satisfied with my senses to confirm it was indeed plastic. I might need new fingers to be able to feel it is actually hadori aluminium.... but that is not the point. The point is - it looks cheap and it feels even cheaper. As far as I am concerned it could be pure platinum.. but if every time I touch it gives me goosebumps from disgust... it is not great! 

More seriously article is just marketing BS, contains a lot of talk about nothing, but does not explain how the trims are made (clearly they are not made from baby katanas..). Perhaps they get the hadori print of aluminium foil and sandwich it between plastic?! That woudl explain why it looks weird, but feels like cheap plastic toy. 

On contrary, sheet of carbon fibre would look sporty and probably wouldn't even feel so bad... other one... I though in BMW E60 bamboo looked weird, but I totally see bamboo wood trim fitting great in ES.

@fetchez la vache - one thing is subjective criteria (like exclusivity) and I have never said "there is no way to justify the car", completely different thing is how good or how bad is the car objectively. I appreciate you have chosen ES for exclusivity and surely... you don't even need to defend it - it is your money and your choice. BUT... it doesn't make ES universally good car. It is clear that driving dynamics wasn't on your list, or the infotainment system (although that could be further divided based on what you use it for), or perhaps even posh interior. As you mentioned you have kids, so perhaps hadori plasti-linium is more practical choice... as a matter of fact open-pore wood is pain in ***** to clean when little gremlins taps it with the yogurt or whatnot. Although I reckon what you saved on "low company tax" you lost in having unusual "exclusive choice"... when I check more exciting cars I could get on company they always have some unbelievable leases, like E220d was something in a range of ~£300/month whereas Lexus GS300h was something like £790 out of nowhere... Yes you pay more BIK for coal Merc, but in the end of day I really doubt Lexus works-out cheaper, especially on lease. 

So in summary you made fair point regarding your choice.... I am arguing more generally about "what is perfect car in the perfect world... and how far or close each car is to that perfect definition of mine".. which is somewhat arbitrary as well... in this sense ES is far, but in real world and in real situation it might not be as far. 

[DanD]

🙄 🤐