UK set to adopt vehicle speed limiters

[Nico72]

Hello,

I am not sure if this is the right area to post this new topic but could not find a general discussion zone (if it is not created, perhaps one should be made?). 

I just read this article from BBC News about EU planning to impose clever devices inside cars that will impose limit speed automatically from 2022 (and even if Brexit ever takes place (from current mess) the EU will ask UK to do the same...  see this article if you have not seen it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415

Personally, I do feel quite strongly about this, I know that there intentions may be about saving lives but fitting these devices in any cars from 2022 will mean we will lose control of our driving freedom and pleasure of relating with the car (especially if it is a car with a big engine). This device will be seen as a big brother watching over our shoulders all the time. This will affect the whole motor industry influencing consumers to buy smaller cars, which may sound alright but not if the industry will cease to make them due to poor demand... I would like to think that UK government will say no to this installation of the devices but it is too soon to know and first our Brexit needs sorting for sure. 

 

[LexusIS300h]

Have they specified a top speed ? If it’s say 100mph then for the UK it is more than enough with maximum motorway speeds of 70mph. There is enough gap there for sudden acceleration if needed.

As an autobahn cruiser though it would be a glum day. I haven’t driven on them but have been a passenger in cars going more than 200 kph on them and I have to say their lane discipline is far better than in the UK. You don’t get the outside lane road hog there, just overtake and move back in as soon as it is safe. Now for those people, the limiter will be a big downer, but for UK drivers I don’t think so.

[NemesisUK]

From a report this morning, the car will read road signs and warn the driver to slow, if ignored the car would automatically slow. This could be overridden by the driver applying firm pressure on the accelerator. Pretty much the same as overriding cruise control. There is no hard, fixed top speed limit.

Volvo and others are looking to electrically limiting top speed to 112mph.

The former is to reduce speeding, the latter to eliminate deaths from RTCs ...

[Nico72]

6 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

From a report this morning, the car will read road signs and warn the driver to slow, if ignored the car would automatically slow. This could be overridden by the driver applying firm pressure on the accelerator. Pretty much the same as overriding cruise control. There is no hard, fixed top speed limit.

Volvo and others are looking to electrically limiting top speed to 112mph.

The former is to reduce speeding, the latter to eliminate deaths from RTCs ...

Thanks, it will be annoying though as it will be constantly interfering with your driving. The other issue is that some roads have got the wrong speed limit in my view, ie some roads have a 20mph limit instead of 30mph, but they are straight wide and long and doing 20, feels like you are not driving and everyone does 30mph, so the device would be constantly interfering - it would annoy me for sure. I also think that once this is fitted, there will be no going back and the next stage could be that car insurance would want to know what speed you do when driving ie are you exceeding the speed limit? if so, the insurance could take the liberty to increase your premium insurance... Sad day that would be and it could come...

[HarryM]

Looking forward to when I am on my bike, 130kph, banked over and the engine cuts power as it  sees 90kph sign for trucks and trailers. Loads of false readings in France as there signage/speed limits are different for conditions etc. 

[NemesisUK]

Many current Lexus models have road sign recognition and this can be linked to the cruise control for automatic speed limiting ...

It will be interesting how the powers-that-be will resolve mistakes made by the recognition system? The usual caveat will be the driver is always ultimately responsible.. Look at the arguments around 'driver-less' autopilot cars.

I can see an argument for limiting the V-max of cars but this proposed camera/GPS lead limiter is fraught with issues.

There was a EU wide survey on RTCs and concluded vast majority of deaths and serious injuries happened at or below the speed limit.

[Hadrian]

They also say they want to reduce road deaths to zero by 2050....Maybe by having a blanket speed limit of 10mph on all roads ?

[rich1068]

I have no problem with it. Speed kills. I see drivers speeding all the time. I'm sure you all do. Too many out there think they're driving gods. If it means it stops some ****** tear arsing up my road because he *thinks* there's no risk then so be it. Do Lexus have manual limiters? Our S-Max and previous BMWs had them. As an experiment try setting it. It really isn't that much of a biggie other than you'll surprise yourself with how often you try to adopt an I Know Best attitude to speed limits.

Obviously it's only going to be on new vehicles so I think you're safe with your 130kph tomfoolery Harry  The real effect of this will be 10-15 years after the legislation when those vehicles without limiters are getting rarer and rarer. Unpopular opinion but I've always known this "freedom" wouldn't last. Too many people are killed or maimed for us to carry on as we are. I aim to make the most of it while I can and it makes me a little sad to think my kids won't enjoy what I've enjoyed but so be it. The next time you see someone driving like a loon or driving with that complete lack of awareness that seems to be getting more prevalent, this is why we can't have nice things.

[The-Acre]

18 minutes ago, Hadrian said:

They also say they want to reduce road deaths to zero by 2050....Maybe by having a blanket speed limit of 10mph on all roads ?

Reducing road deaths to zero will never happen, it's just impossible.  As for speed limiters, they've had them in Japan for many years, seems to work there.  Personally I don't see how limiting car speeds will reduce deaths, unless as you say, they reduce it to walking speed.  Perhaps human nature needs limiting more than cars!

[Dapprman]

There are several things worth bearing in mind.

• Most Luxury/performance saloons are already limited 155 mph by gentleman's agreement amongst the manufacturers.
• In Japan until 2008 (?) all cars are hard limited to 112 MPH/180 KMH by law and engines were limited for 280 BHP (though the Nissan Skyline GT-R33 reputedly had 350 at the time).

Both were implemented with safety in mind, though the limits were dropped in Japan after someone provided proof that there was no relationship between speed and deaths.

On the new proposed regulations, as someone else has pointed out above, the limit can be manually over-ridden, so those who want to speed (I used to be a track day junky) can, where as the majority of people who are more likely to speed due to a tack of attention will not care.

[Dapprman]

11 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Do Lexus have manual limiters? Our S-Max and previous BMWs had them. As an experiment try setting it. It really isn't that much of a biggie other than you'll surprise yourself with how often you try to adopt an I Know Best attitude to speed limits.

My Gen 4 GS450H does not and I did not see it on a loaner NX, so I assume not.  I prefer it to cruise control as in SPECS zones you just set the speed and keep your foot down - it's a smoother ride as there's none of the hunting you get with cruise control as it deals with slopes.

[superatticman]

The UK ministry for Transport have already said they would propose this even if we do leave the EU in some shape or form. So that diatribe I had lined up about un-elected dictatorships can wait for another day. Something like this was inevitable though. It will mean though that every journey will become like a scene out of the film Duel. And that is something of which I'm not looking forward to. If we do go fully automated, who does the claim go to if there is an accident? Back to the manufacturer? Will the driver still face liability if he didn't take back control moments before the accident? If that ability is even there in the first place of course. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Herbie]

55 minutes ago, rich1068 said:

Speed kills

No, inappropriate speed kills.

[scudney]

Read it myself this morning too,serves us ..... right,was going to happen sooner rather than later irregardless, at least no more 100 mph in a 70 or 60 in a 40 etc,(even if only in new  vehicles from 2022). What a shame white van drivers😁lol, the government will also have to find new ways of fining road users to make up for the fall in speeding ticket revenue 😁

[DJ Les]

I live on a main road that is half a mile long from a set of traffic lights to a roundabout at the other end and has been limited to 30mph for years. This used to be 'a red rag to a bull' for the boy racers. They used to race along from the lights to the roundabout regularly. From my house to 100 yards further along the street there were 10 cars written off in a 5 year period! One of the worst accidents was when 2 young girls lost control and crashed into the corner of a stone built house, the engine and gearbox flew out of the car and landed 20-30 yards further along the road, the starter motor flew through a neighbours living room window when the woman of the house was sitting watching television, luckily it missed her. This was in a 30mph speed limit!!! Turned out they were well over the drink drive limit and it wasn't the drivers first time.

After years of campaigning we finally got sets of cushions installed along the road, it's a bus route so they couldn't put full width humps. I had a great laugh when the first group of neanderthal boy racers tried negotiating the cushions with their lowered little hatchbacks. They tried straddling the cushions like normal cars at about 5mph and scraped the underneath of their cars. They didn't have the brains to run the wheels over the cushions. They don't use this road anymore lol. We still get speeding drivers flying along straddling the centre cushions, but, not very often.

Since buying my Lexus in February I've got used to using the cruise control set to the speed limits. I sometimes get tailgaters trying to intimidate me, but, just ignore them. On a couple of occasions they've overtaken me, even in 30mph limits.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rich1068 said:

I have no problem with it. Speed kills. I see drivers speeding all the time. I'm sure you all do.

Inappropriate speed is dangerous. As Nemesis said most fatals happen below the speed limit. Accidents involving excessive speed usually involve some sort of other crime, police chases, escape from scenes of crime, illgal drivers, drug use, alcohol use etc. Laws already exists to combat this but they spent it all on cameras instead of policing. 

 

 

 

[scudney]

All said and done excessive and inappropriate speed needs to be curbed 😊

[superatticman]

If speed kills then Japan would have retired its Shinkansen network years ago. Concorde would have been dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic as opposed to one accident at the lowest end of its flying speed. 

Realistically we'll see the majority of UK citizens have these controls implemented onto them. However I'm sure it won't be long before firmware hacks start to appear. What happens to performance cars too? And what happens if I was to import a car from the USA as a means of by passing the nanny state?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, scudney said:

All said and done excessive and inappropriate speed needs to be curbed 😊

Ok - nice words.

Define it based on the data. 

Have you look at what ACTUALLY kills people in the UK? 

My point is, if you treat the wrong causes you won't get the desired result. Something like 80% of fatal accidents occur below the limit. Do you propose a maximum speed on all roads of 30mph for example as clearly people are dying at 50mph. Or maybe it's not a simple as just being about speed?

[noby76]

i wont be surprised if another company comes up with a way of deactivating the speed limit by selling people devices to do this. 

[scudney]

Which would then become a punishable offence 

[DanD]

3 hours ago, Dapprman said:

My Gen 4 GS450H does not and I did not see it on a loaner NX, so I assume not.  I prefer it to cruise control as in SPECS zones you just set the speed and keep your foot down - it's a smoother ride as there's none of the hunting you get with cruise control as it deals with slopes.

No active speed limiter, but you can - in the NX at least - set an audible warning to let you know that you are driving over a preset speed.

[Martin F]

3 hours ago, Herbie said:

No, inappropriate speed kills.

No, stopping quickly does the killing 🙂

I saw a counter argument for this legislation this morning which is quite interesting; a current posted speed limit is only the maximum for that road based on ideal conditions. You as the driver should still asses the conditions and regulate your speed appropriately. By installing this technology and taking any thought process away from the driver does it just mean that more drive around with their foot to the floor expecting the car to regulate their speed to the type of road? 

 

 

[rich1068]

4 hours ago, Dapprman said:

after someone provided proof that there was no relationship between speed and deaths.

You'll have to do better than that Mr Dappr  Not saying they didn't but I'm not spending the afternoon Googling.

3 hours ago, Herbie said:

No, inappropriate speed kills.

Yes. And guns don't kill people. People kill people or whatever the nonsensical saying is. 

2 hours ago, DJ Les said:

I live on a main road that is half a mile long from a set of traffic lights to a roundabout at the other end and has been limited to 30mph for years....

I live on a side road with terraced houses and cars on each side. There's enough room to drive one car up or down and the local authority have just dropped the speed limit to 20mph across the entire area. Doesn't stop idiots who think that because they can't see anything coming down the road it's OK to do 40. Lost a cat. Don't want to lose a child.

Cars are faster, more comfortable, quieter and safer than they've ever been. The standard of driving and awareness is (imo) getting worse and we can't be trusted to behave. GPS speed limiters it is.

[royoftherovers]

7 hours ago, Nico72 said:

Hello,

I am not sure if this is the right area to post this new topic but could not find a general discussion zone (if it is not created, perhaps one should be made?). 

I just read this article from BBC News about EU planning to impose clever devices inside cars that will impose limit speed automatically from 2022 (and even if Brexit ever takes place (from current mess) the EU will ask UK to do the same...  see this article if you have not seen it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415

Personally, I do feel quite strongly about this, I know that there intentions may be about saving lives but fitting these devices in any cars from 2022 will mean we will lose control of our driving freedom and pleasure of relating with the car (especially if it is a car with a big engine). This device will be seen as a big brother watching over our shoulders all the time. This will affect the whole motor industry influencing consumers to buy smaller cars, which may sound alright but not if the industry will cease to make them due to poor demand... I would like to think that UK government will say no to this installation of the devices but it is too soon to know and first our Brexit needs sorting for sure. 

 

The proposal seems very sensible to me and similar in concept to the current idea of using the cruise control to limit one` speed in controlled areas.

I wonder what the Government will do to make up the shortfall in speeding fines though?