2014 GS450h - Questions

Deathstar · March 16, 2019

My IS250 was in for a service and a recall in my local Lexus dealer when I noticed a red 64 plate GS450h lurking on the forecourt. I've had my IS for nearly three years, love it to bits, however I would like to think that a Hybrid would be quite nice to try. The car itself is a Luxury trim with the Premium Nav. It doesn't have the Mark Levinson but it does have the 12.3" display. I requested to take it for a quick spin however, I have a few questions which hopefully GS owners can answer

1 - Gear Stick Vibration

This was something that struck me as totally weird. I'm not sure why, however the gear selector seemed to have a lot of 'feedback' coming through it. In my IS I can hold my hand on the gear stick and not feel any vibration, however with the GS I could. Is this a characteristic of the car? With one of my previous cars this was a sign of a worn gear box. This car was under 37,000 miles so seemed unlikely that the CVT would be 'worn'.

2 - Radar Cruise

What do I need to look for in order to get radar cruise on the GS450h? They had a slightly newer 65 plate 300h in the new shape GS which had it, however the sales man did say that it was very uncommon to see. Is this something which is standard on the newer shape GS cars? Did it appear in certain trims?

3 - Sport/SPORT+

This model did have the 'Sport' dial but not sport plus. What does sport plus add? The car didn't feel overly quick, however, the wife did say that it had a bit more go than the IS.

4 - Service Schedules

My IS has a £250 service then a £480 service and now and again a £699 service. Is this the same for the GS? The warranty seems to be a few £100 more than the IS too, does that mean that things with this car are generally more expensive?

5 - Economy

My daily commute is around 12 miles with annual mileage clocking in at around 6-7000 a year. In the winter the IS is hitting around 26-29 mpg summer is more like 30+. On a run on the motorway I can usually get 43mpg+ (once had over 50!). What's the real world economy like on the GS?

6 - Battery

I have had a few NXs on loan whilst my IS has been in for service. What I have noticed with the NXs is that they will go a reasonable length on Battery power alone. The GS during the test drive warmed up quickly however, it wouldn't really move on Battery power alone. When we stopped at traffic lights, it did turn the engine off, then as soon as we proceeded to move, the ICE kicked in. The sales man said this was due to it being an older type of hybrid system where it was merely meant to 'assist' rather than 'drive' the car. How true is this? It seems that the NX can move up to around 30mph before the ICE kicks in.

7 - Trim levels

The trim levels are a little confusing. If I want to get the Levinson sound system, heated seats, 12.3" screen and radar cruise what trim do I need to be looking for?

Sorry for the questions.

OldTrout · March 16, 2019

Dylan,

For experience of the previous generation 450h I will try and answer you questions. What I can't other's will😊

1 Apart from fact that I don't touch it once moving I would say vibration on the gear select lever is very strange. I suspect that for hybrid the lever is an electrical switch not a mechanical link to the gearbox. Something wrong here.

2 Amazingly stupid omission by Lexus. It is a very expensive option for 450h but fitted as standard to lesser models. Go figure.

3 Don't know about Sport and Sport+ as Mk 3 does not have this. As for performance it may not "feel overly quick" but it has a lot more go than the IS250. 60 in 6s, 100 in 12s and 155 in about 24s if YouTube is to be believed.

4 Others to answer this.

5 I guess the Mk 4 GS450h will equal or better your 250 since I can probably math your figures with my Mk 3. The VED is much less on the 450h and the insurance about the same.

6 Don't worry about it. There are a lot of variables which the computer takes into account. The original 450h was built for performance not economy. I understand the Atkinson engine in the Mk4 improves on economy without impacting performance. When you say the engine "kicked in" it should be hardly noticeable

7 Others to answer.

Hope this helps.

John

Shahpor · March 16, 2019

Hi Dylan,

Let me see what I can do:

3 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

My IS250 was in for a service and a recall in my local Lexus dealer when I noticed a red 64 plate GS450h lurking on the forecourt. I've had my IS for nearly three years, love it to bits, however I would like to think that a Hybrid would be quite nice to try. The car itself is a Luxury trim with the Premium Nav. It doesn't have the Mark Levinson but it does have the 12.3" display. I requested to take it for a quick spin however, I have a few questions which hopefully GS owners can answer

1 - Gear Stick Vibration

This was something that struck me as totally weird. I'm not sure why, however the gear selector seemed to have a lot of 'feedback' coming through it. In my IS I can hold my hand on the gear stick and not feel any vibration, however with the GS I could. Is this a characteristic of the car? With one of my previous cars this was a sign of a worn gear box. This car was under 37,000 miles so seemed unlikely that the CVT would be 'worn'. Mine doesn't vibrate, so I am not sure what is going on there. As John has said, there is no mechanical linkage to the gearbox.

2 - Radar Cruise

What do I need to look for in order to get radar cruise on the GS450h? They had a slightly newer 65 plate 300h in the new shape GS which had it, however the sales man did say that it was very uncommon to see. Is this something which is standard on the newer shape GS cars? Did it appear in certain trims? Radar cruise control was an option on the Premier spec only, and even then was £3,350, so it is no surprise that it is rare to find.

3 - Sport/SPORT+

This model did have the 'Sport' dial but not sport plus. What does sport plus add? The car didn't feel overly quick, however, the wife did say that it had a bit more go than the IS. Sport mode sharpens up the throttle response (and the steering on F Sport models). Sport plus stiffen up the adaptive dampers for a sportier ride. It was standard on F Sport and Premier models, but not available as even an option on the Luxury spec.

4 - Service Schedules

My IS has a £250 service then a £480 service and now and again a £699 service. Is this the same for the GS? The warranty seems to be a few £100 more than the IS too, does that mean that things with this car are generally more expensive? According to this, the standard pricing is £295/£495 with the more expensive mileage based ones. If I had to guess, I would say that yes, they are generally more expensive than the IS.

5 - Economy

My daily commute is around 12 miles with annual mileage clocking in at around 6-7000 a year. In the winter the IS is hitting around 26-29 mpg summer is more like 30+. On a run on the motorway I can usually get 43mpg+ (once had over 50!). What's the real world economy like on the GS? I am currently averaging 30-32mpg with a mixture of town and A road driving. Over 40mpg should be easily achievable on the motorway.

6 - Battery

I have had a few NXs on loan whilst my IS has been in for service. What I have noticed with the NXs is that they will go a reasonable length on battery power alone. The GS during the test drive warmed up quickly however, it wouldn't really move on battery power alone. When we stopped at traffic lights, it did turn the engine off, then as soon as we proceeded to move, the ICE kicked in. The sales man said this was due to it being an older type of hybrid system where it was merely meant to 'assist' rather than 'drive' the car. How true is this? It seems that the NX can move up to around 30mph before the ICE kicks in.You can drive short distances on battery power alone, but the acceleration has to be very light and it will switch the ICE on if you approach 30mph.

7 - Trim levels

The trim levels are a little confusing. If I want to get the Levinson sound system, heated seats, 12.3" screen and radar cruise what trim do I need to be looking for? There are 3 trim levels for 2014 models, which are on this PDF:

LEXUSGS450h spec.pdf

As you can see, they all come with heated seats and the Mark Levinson system with the 12.3" screen is standard on the Premier and an option on the other two. As discussed previously, radar cruise is an option on the Premier only.

Sorry for the questions.

I hope this helps.

olliesgrandad · March 16, 2019

To confuse things my 2015 pre face-lift GS300h luxury had rear cross traffic radar and ventilated seats. My car had ML. I understand that the face-lift GS lost the rear cross traffic radar.

On this basis you'll need to carefully check the spec of individual cars you look at.

Shahpor · March 16, 2019

This is true and I should have qualified it by saying my answers are for a 2014 GS450h as the spec does vary depending on the model and year.

Deathstar · March 16, 2019

Thank you for the replies so far. I'm trying to plan my next move well in advance, but so far there doesn't seem to be a lot of GSs out there. My car is a 62 plate (2012) so ideally I would like to look at a 2015 car which puts me on the cross between the new shape and the old. The one other thing which I cannot get my head around is the pre 2015 with the large screen will not display the map across the full screen, whereas the newer one does. Surely this should be available as a software update.

Vlady · March 16, 2019

5 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

My IS250 was in for a service and a recall in my local Lexus dealer when I noticed a red 64 plate GS450h lurking on the forecourt. I've had my IS for nearly three years, love it to bits, however I would like to think that a Hybrid would be quite nice to try. The car itself is a Luxury trim with the Premium Nav. It doesn't have the Mark Levinson but it does have the 12.3" display. I requested to take it for a quick spin however, I have a few questions which hopefully GS owners can answer

1 - Gear Stick Vibration

This was something that struck me as totally weird. I'm not sure why, however the gear selector seemed to have a lot of 'feedback' coming through it. In my IS I can hold my hand on the gear stick and not feel any vibration, however with the GS I could. Is this a characteristic of the car? With one of my previous cars this was a sign of a worn gear box. This car was under 37,000 miles so seemed unlikely that the CVT would be 'worn'.

2 - Radar Cruise

What do I need to look for in order to get radar cruise on the GS450h? They had a slightly newer 65 plate 300h in the new shape GS which had it, however the sales man did say that it was very uncommon to see. Is this something which is standard on the newer shape GS cars? Did it appear in certain trims?

3 - Sport/SPORT+

This model did have the 'Sport' dial but not sport plus. What does sport plus add? The car didn't feel overly quick, however, the wife did say that it had a bit more go than the IS.

4 - Service Schedules

My IS has a £250 service then a £480 service and now and again a £699 service. Is this the same for the GS? The warranty seems to be a few £100 more than the IS too, does that mean that things with this car are generally more expensive?

5 - Economy

My daily commute is around 12 miles with annual mileage clocking in at around 6-7000 a year. In the winter the IS is hitting around 26-29 mpg summer is more like 30+. On a run on the motorway I can usually get 43mpg+ (once had over 50!). What's the real world economy like on the GS?

6 - Battery

I have had a few NXs on loan whilst my IS has been in for service. What I have noticed with the NXs is that they will go a reasonable length on battery power alone. The GS during the test drive warmed up quickly however, it wouldn't really move on battery power alone. When we stopped at traffic lights, it did turn the engine off, then as soon as we proceeded to move, the ICE kicked in. The sales man said this was due to it being an older type of hybrid system where it was merely meant to 'assist' rather than 'drive' the car. How true is this? It seems that the NX can move up to around 30mph before the ICE kicks in.

7 - Trim levels

The trim levels are a little confusing. If I want to get the Levinson sound system, heated seats, 12.3" screen and radar cruise what trim do I need to be looking for?

Sorry for the questions.

Hi Dylan, see my answers below, not much help probably.

1. I have no vibrations through gear stick, apart when the car starts the ICE.

2. Do not have that but would be good to have.

3. sport + does stiffen up the suspension and makes throttle response sharper.

4. Warranty is about 20% more expensive than my BMW was, so no cheap.

5 I get now average 32-34 mpg, during warmer periods I did 35-35.5mpg

6. Battery works good after motorway run and when the car id warmed up. When it's charged I can cost at 35-40mph but cant get to that speed on Battery alone, ICE always kicks in.

7. Mine is Premier so I have ML sound system and big screen.

Hangie · March 16, 2019

22 minutes ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

Thank you for the replies so far. I'm trying to plan my next move well in advance, but so far there doesn't seem to be a lot of GSs out there. My car is a 62 plate (2012) so ideally I would like to look at a 2015 car which puts me on the cross between the new shape and the old. The one other thing which I cannot get my head around is the pre 2015 with the large screen will not display the map across the full screen, whereas the newer one does. Surely this should be available as a software update.

No full screen sat nav on pre-facelift models. It don’t bother me though.

it could be political thing to not add it later ion, or hardware was changed and pre-facelift satnav is just not powerful enough to display in full screen.

Shahpor · March 16, 2019

22 minutes ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

Thank you for the replies so far. I'm trying to plan my next move well in advance, but so far there doesn't seem to be a lot of GSs out there. My car is a 62 plate (2012) so ideally I would like to look at a 2015 car which puts me on the cross between the new shape and the old. The one other thing which I cannot get my head around is the pre 2015 with the large screen will not display the map across the full screen, whereas the newer one does. Surely this should be available as a software update.

It is true that there aren't that many out there. There is a strange overlap with the facelift cars, but since they are almost all 300h's, it depends on what you are after.

I also agree that it is annoying that the earlier cars can't be upgraded to the full screen map mode.

One thing to note is that there was a subtle change to the range in 2014 where things like the HUD were added to the GS450h Premier's as standard.

Deathstar · March 16, 2019

2 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

It is true that there aren't that many out there. There is a strange overlap with the facelift cars, but since they are almost all 300h's, it depends on what you are after.

I also agree that it is annoying that the earlier cars can't be upgraded to the full screen map mode.

One thing to note is that there was a subtle change to the range in 2014 where things like the HUD were added to the GS450h Premier's as standard.

This makes sense as i've seen some with HUD.

Long story short, I really like the NX however I think i prefer the driving position of my IS. I'd happily look at another IS, however the 450h is that bit more power and in my eyes a bit more fun. The one thing that puts me off with the IS is the size of the screen inside it, it seems small for the car, although new versions have changed, it will take a few years for these to filter on down.

The NXs I have had in the past have been a mix of SE and Luxury trim, however the last one was a premier with the ML, heated steering wheel etc let's just say I was smitten.

Zotto · March 16, 2019

Actually GS 450h has MUCH more power than IS or ES...

i-s · March 16, 2019

Others have answered already, but we have a 2015 (pre-facelift) with all 3 options so can maybe provide a little more info on top of what everyone else has accurately given you. We bought ours used in december, and it is on a 15 plate. We believe that this car (2015 premier with all options) is so rare that we have determined it to be a unicorn:

7 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

2 - Radar Cruise

What do I need to look for in order to get radar cruise on the GS450h? They had a slightly newer 65 plate 300h in the new shape GS which had it, however the sales man did say that it was very uncommon to see. Is this something which is standard on the newer shape GS cars? Did it appear in certain trims?

Indeed, a rare option. You're looking for something called "PCS" in the spec (Pre Collision System) which gave the car the radar, ACC, driver monitor system, Lane Keep, etc.

The most obvious physical signs that this system is fitted are the driver monitor module that sits on top of the steering column and the additional buttons on the steering wheel for LKA and radar distance. If you look at the interior picture I posted in the thread I linked above, you can see the driver monitor module.

The red car that you mention doesn't have it (assuming that you're talking about YA64 FNX).

7 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

3 - Sport/SPORT+

This model did have the 'Sport' dial but not sport plus. What does sport plus add? The car didn't feel overly quick, however, the wife did say that it had a bit more go than the IS.

I'm not sure if it's a model year difference to what Shahpor's car does, but our Premier does the following:

Sport - Changed throttle map.
Sport+ - Same throttle map as sport, damping stiffened, steering weight increased

I agree that the GS450h doesn't feel particularly quick. In fact, our 2011 Volvo V70 D5 Polestar (225bhp 5-cylinder twin-turbo diesel) felt like it had more "kick". However, I think it's a matter of perception. I do believe that peak accelerations on the Volvo were greater (with 470Nm of torque, that wouldn't be entirely surprising), but I suspect much of it was psychological - the Volvo's performance was delivered in that typically diesel manner of a big slug of torque that tried to snap your head off (and the front wheels from the ground), accompanied by harsh gearshifts and a whole bunch of noise. I suspect the fact that the GS450h does everything with such smoothness and linearity and quietly means that the lack of drama is mistaken for being slow. It's more a case of you won't realise the speeds you're doing. However, I'm also used to the instantaneous nature of driving electric.

7 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

5 - Economy

My daily commute is around 12 miles with annual mileage clocking in at around 6-7000 a year. In the winter the IS is hitting around 26-29 mpg summer is more like 30+. On a run on the motorway I can usually get 43mpg+ (once had over 50!). What's the real world economy like on the GS?

See my fuelly sig below - click on it to get more data.

We are averaging at this point 37mpg overall. Motorway cruising at 75-80mph indicated returns around 40mpg, and small amounts of stop-start driving don't particularly change that. Overall it is competitive against our previous Volvo V70 D5 diesel (38.6mpg). Obviously it depends on your driving style, your exact route, etc, but I think I'd expect mid 30s.

1 hour ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

Thank you for the replies so far. I'm trying to plan my next move well in advance, but so far there doesn't seem to be a lot of GSs out there. My car is a 62 plate (2012) so ideally I would like to look at a 2015 car which puts me on the cross between the new shape and the old. The one other thing which I cannot get my head around is the pre 2015 with the large screen will not display the map across the full screen, whereas the newer one does. Surely this should be available as a software update.

In effect, the small-screen and big-screen options are the same size in pre-facelift cars. The map is the same size and shape on both, just on the big screen you get the secondary information pane. I have to say I don't find it all that useful, since to actually do anything useful (eg browse to a different artist) you have to pull the secondary pane into the main pane and do what you want.

There IS a change to sat-nav in the pre-facelift cars, however!

2012-2014 (and by the looks of it, YA64 FNX is the OLD system) used the USB port in the centre console to update the sat-nav maps. Those vehicles also have a little display of the Bluetooth status at the very top-right of the screen (looking like a 4th tab in the secondary display).

Our 2015 vehicle has a microSD slot for the maps, hidden under a little flap that has the Mark Levinson logo on it for the audio system, just below the CD slot. We purchased a new SD card off eBay that successfully updated it to the latest mapping (a notable change in our area was that it now has the new A556 - the original 2014 maps had the old A556).

I doubt that there will ever be a software update that brings pre-facelift up to full screen maps like facelift cars - I suspect that the hardware underlying the system is different, and no car manufacturer (other than Tesla) bothers updating software of cars that are more than 2-3 years old.

As a general note about the firing up of the ICE - it does do it more than you might expect, especially when the engine is cold. However, I'm coming at it from the point of view of my daily drive commuter car being a Nissan Leaf, so I'd love if it was permanently fully electric (and in a few years time I might convert it - it would actually be a relatively easy vehicle to convert, as it already has ~150kW of electric motors). Once it is warmed up, however, it will kill the engine quickly in stop-start traffic and actually the MPG tends to go up in those circumstances, relative to motorway cruising. The nature of the lexus hybrid system means that stop-start is FAR less annoying than other ICE vehicles, as there's no engine-start lag to pull away, and the use of MG1 as a "starter" means that instead of the usual ICE crank-crank-crank VROOM start, the ICE of the lexus just goes from not running to instantly running at a fast idle (~1000rpm) with nothing in between. Note that the hybrid idles fast because if it needs to idle then it uses the engine to do something useful (ie charge the hybrid battery), and it can do so more efficiently and cleanly at 1000rpm than at 600rpm. If it doesn't need to idle then it doesn't.

8 hours ago, Dylanlewis2000 said:

Sorry for the questions.

Never apologise for asking sensible questions!

Shahpor · March 16, 2019

20 minutes ago, i-s said:

I'm not sure if it's a model year difference to what Shahpor's car does, but our Premier does the following:

Sport - Changed throttle map.
Sport+ - Same throttle map as sport, damping stiffened, steering weight increased

I don't mean to question, but are you sure about the steering?

The reason is that I was LED to believe that the steering change was an F Sport only option (along with the rear wheel steering), and the spec list I posted above does mention 'Dynamic Rear Steering (DRS)' and 'Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS)' as not available for the Premier or Luxury.

i-s · March 16, 2019

Yes.

The rear steer and variable ratio (ie change of number of turns lock-to-lock) are indeed F sport only options (in the uk).

However, our car increases the steering weight in sport+ mode (ie the effort required to turn the wheel). It does not alter the ratio.

Shahpor · March 17, 2019

Ahh, I see what you mean - Sorry for the confusion.

I assume this is what you are referring to?

Deathstar · March 17, 2019

14 hours ago, i-s said:

Others have answered already, but we have a 2015 (pre-facelift) with all 3 options so can maybe provide a little more info on top of what everyone else has accurately given you. We bought ours used in december, and it is on a 15 plate. We believe that this car (2015 premier with all options) is so rare that we have determined it to be a unicorn:

Indeed, a rare option. You're looking for something called "PCS" in the spec (Pre Collision System) which gave the car the radar, ACC, driver monitor system, Lane Keep, etc.

The most obvious physical signs that this system is fitted are the driver monitor module that sits on top of the steering column and the additional buttons on the steering wheel for LKA and radar distance. If you look at the interior picture I posted in the thread I linked above, you can see the driver monitor module.

The red car that you mention doesn't have it (assuming that you're talking about YA64 FNX).

I'm not sure if it's a model year difference to what Shahpor's car does, but our Premier does the following:

Sport - Changed throttle map.
Sport+ - Same throttle map as sport, damping stiffened, steering weight increased

I agree that the GS450h doesn't feel particularly quick. In fact, our 2011 Volvo V70 D5 Polestar (225bhp 5-cylinder twin-turbo diesel) felt like it had more "kick". However, I think it's a matter of perception. I do believe that peak accelerations on the Volvo were greater (with 470Nm of torque, that wouldn't be entirely surprising), but I suspect much of it was psychological - the Volvo's performance was delivered in that typically diesel manner of a big slug of torque that tried to snap your head off (and the front wheels from the ground), accompanied by harsh gearshifts and a whole bunch of noise. I suspect the fact that the GS450h does everything with such smoothness and linearity and quietly means that the lack of drama is mistaken for being slow. It's more a case of you won't realise the speeds you're doing. However, I'm also used to the instantaneous nature of driving electric.

See my fuelly sig below - click on it to get more data.

We are averaging at this point 37mpg overall. Motorway cruising at 75-80mph indicated returns around 40mpg, and small amounts of stop-start driving don't particularly change that. Overall it is competitive against our previous Volvo V70 D5 diesel (38.6mpg). Obviously it depends on your driving style, your exact route, etc, but I think I'd expect mid 30s.

In effect, the small-screen and big-screen options are the same size in pre-facelift cars. The map is the same size and shape on both, just on the big screen you get the secondary information pane. I have to say I don't find it all that useful, since to actually do anything useful (eg browse to a different artist) you have to pull the secondary pane into the main pane and do what you want.

There IS a change to sat-nav in the pre-facelift cars, however!

2012-2014 (and by the looks of it, YA64 FNX is the OLD system) used the USB port in the centre console to update the sat-nav maps. Those vehicles also have a little display of the bluetooth status at the very top-right of the screen (looking like a 4th tab in the secondary display).

Our 2015 vehicle has a microSD slot for the maps, hidden under a little flap that has the Mark Levinson logo on it for the audio system, just below the CD slot. We purchased a new SD card off ebay that successfully updated it to the latest mapping (a notable change in our area was that it now has the new A556 - the original 2014 maps had the old A556).

I doubt that there will ever be a software update that brings pre-facelift up to full screen maps like facelift cars - I suspect that the hardware underlying the system is different, and no car manufacturer (other than Tesla) bothers updating software of cars that are more than 2-3 years old.

As a general note about the firing up of the ICE - it does do it more than you might expect, especially when the engine is cold. However, I'm coming at it from the point of view of my daily drive commuter car being a Nissan Leaf, so I'd love if it was permanently fully electric (and in a few years time I might convert it - it would actually be a relatively easy vehicle to convert, as it already has ~150kW of electric motors). Once it is warmed up, however, it will kill the engine quickly in stop-start traffic and actually the MPG tends to go up in those circumstances, relative to motorway cruising. The nature of the lexus hybrid system means that stop-start is FAR less annoying than other ICE vehicles, as there's no engine-start lag to pull away, and the use of MG1 as a "starter" means that instead of the usual ICE crank-crank-crank VROOM start, the ICE of the lexus just goes from not running to instantly running at a fast idle (~1000rpm) with nothing in between. Note that the hybrid idles fast because if it needs to idle then it uses the engine to do something useful (ie charge the hybrid battery), and it can do so more efficiently and cleanly at 1000rpm than at 600rpm. If it doesn't need to idle then it doesn't.

Never apologise for asking sensible questions!

Thank you for that detailed response.

I guess i'll just keep on looking. I too had a Volvo, however mine was the S40 sport with the D5 geartronic. I will admit that the Volvo did feel as if it had a lot more shove, and if it was in second/ third gear then nothing was going to pass it as the acceleration was brutal in a light weight car. I guess I was expecting the 450 to be a bit more like that in terms of 'put back in seat' enjoyment.

It seems that they made updates to the 2015 spec, just before the face lift, so probably that's the best one to look for if i want to make sure I have everything. HUD is not a deal breaker, but having it on the NX was nice. My main requirements would be the ML sound system, large screen, radar cruise and heated seats. Anything else is a bonus. Not sure when i'm looking to change, as I still have one more service on my service plan with Lexus, so it could be a year from now, but its nice to see what's out there at the moment as I can keep an eye on prices.

Thank you to all who have contributed so far, if anyone else would like to weigh in, feel free!