RX450h - Catalytic Converter Theft

[Herbie]

13 minutes ago, Andy B said:

To be clear, it's not something that is keeping me up at night (there are far worse things happening in the world at the moment) but I'd like to avoid the hassle if I can

The very fact that you've taken time to type out such a lengthy post about it tells me the exact opposite  😉

The simple fact is that you can do very little to prevent it, so just put it right out of your mind and get on with life. There are plenty videos on Youtube here to see how it's done and also ideas for prevention but just how effective those ideas are is anyone's guess.

I would say that the only sure way of prevention is to make a box from titanium or some other very-difficult-to-cut metal, place it over the cat, drill holes through the floorpan of the car and bolt the box on to the underside, securing the bolts from the inside, so that it completely covers the cat.

[Andy B]

31 minutes ago, Herbie said:

The very fact that you've taken time to type out such a lengthy post about it tells me the exact opposite  😉

 

Not sure why me taking a few minutes to write a few paragraphs would tell you that, but hey ho.

[Boxbrownie]

I think if you park the car close to a wall but leaving enough room to get in and out is even worse as your parking the car where the thief could easily get down on the ground and work at removing the Cat shielded from passing eyes while he does his work.

Cat theft would be covered by normal vehicle insurance presumably?

Swings and roundabouts regards replacement cost and insurance excess.

[smitham]

26 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

I think if you park the car close to a wall but leaving enough room to get in and out is even worse as your parking the car where the thief could easily get down on the ground and work at removing the Cat shielded from passing eyes while he does his work.

Cat theft would be covered by normal vehicle insurance presumably?

Swings and roundabouts regards replacement cost and insurance excess.

No need to worry about passing eyes - my thief was perfectly happy doing it in bright afternoon sunshine, parked in the street just outside my home, with my missus in between errands and in front of all the neighbours walking up and down.  People seem to assume that the thief is a legit mechanic.  We forget how brazen these guys are!

Insurance is no good either - mine asked for a 50% contribution as it was an old car and the book value of the car is not much more than cost of the replacement cat.

Cheapest option is catman plus a cheap local garage that is willing to do welding.

 

 

 

 

[Herbie]

3 hours ago, Andy B said:

Not sure why me taking a few minutes to write a few paragraphs would tell you that, but hey ho.

Because you simply can't do anything about it so why even let it enter your head, let alone write paragraphs about it?

I've heard about the thefts, I've assessed the situation, I've concluded that nothing can currently be done about it so that's it. Carry on with life and don't think about it again unless or until it either happens to me or someone comes up with a viable solution.

[Keeling54]

Mine is still intact and attached to the car, but on the basis it will get nicked at some point I've just ordered a replacement from the catman. 

[Jaystar77]

Few rolls of this down each sill?

 

 

Seriously though, there's not much you can do.  Just straight-pipe to stop it happening again, they can't steal what's not there.

 

 

Still.. could be worse (CLICKME)

[Herbie]

42 minutes ago, Jaystar77 said:

Still.. could be worse (CLICKME)

I'm speechless 

[Boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, Keeling54 said:

Mine is still intact and attached to the car, but on the basis it will get nicked at some point I've just ordered a replacement from the catman. 

Blimey that really is a “glass half empty” attitude 😂

[Stack1]

Does anyone have any recommendations of a cat lock that would fit an 08 RX 400h?

I've been in touch with a few online retailers and none of them can say for definite that the universal one would fit.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[EDIT] I just called Lexus Croydon and they said nobody has made a lock to fit ANY Lexus yet.

[smitham]

Just an update to confirm all is well with the catman replacement that was fitted last week by a local garage who did welding.

This week, the car went for a Lexus main dealer service and they had no complaints since they gave it an MOT!

 

[Vlady]

6 hours ago, smitham said:

Just an update to confirm all is well with the catman replacement that was fitted last week by a local garage who did welding.

This week, the car went for a Lexus main dealer service and they had no complaints since they gave it an MOT!

 

What measures were taken to make sure it won't be stolen again? Is that easy to steal on a first place?

[Boswell]

My experience of having what I thought was my catalytic converter removed from my Lexus RX 400H (first reg. April ’09) might be useful to anyone with the same model.

The exhaust section was removed around mid-day, about 3 weeks ago, in Chelsea, London  (next to the Marsden Hospital). I booked the car in with my independent garage, who I’ve used for 4 years, and trusted 100%. Verdict was the cat had been removed (clear photographs of exhaust section), long delay in ordering Lexus parts, but alternative sources were an option.

No problem with my insurance covering the damage, as it was considered vandalism, but would only cover a hire car if we used either their independent repairer network or a Lexus main dealer, which cut out my independent garage who couldn’t offer a courtesy car (except for service visits).

I talked to my Lexus main dealer who said it was unlikely the cat had been removed, as on my model of 400H, the cat was inaccessible to a casual theft. Lexus Assistance covered getting the car to the main dealer, who confirmed that the cat was still intact, and the crooks had just secured a worthless section of the exhaust.  They mentioned they had 28 owners ahead of me waiting for a replacement cat, and delay was likely to be at least 6-8 weeks to supply, although I only needed the hacked-out exhaust section. Including labour and VAT estimate was just under a grand.

Not having a car was no-go for me, and hiring a car for 6-8 weeks, without a firm date for repair wasn’t appealing. 

Some tips: report the theft immediately to police (can be done online with the Met), as insurance will need an incident reference.

My insurance cover excess was reduced to £100 if claim was made within 48 hours of the damage/theft.

My comp. insurance cover was cheap and cheerful, but it did cover car hire if the car wasn’t driveable; might be worth checking when you renew?

Consider Lexus Assistance cover (basically top AA cover) – it’s cheap as chips (well, 100 quid/year), and covers you and a partner on any car, gets you to a garage (or home) when your Lexus converts to a tractor and illegal to drive, and provides a loan car.

Whether you have an independent garage or not, might be worth having a 2^nd opinion from a Lexus main dealer, particularly as in my case, my independent garage gave the incorrect diagnosis (puzzled by that).

I realise I might suffer from loaded future renewal premiums, but for no-fault claims I'm optimistic.

I’m not technically minded, so some jargon above is probably dodgy. Happy to be corrected on anything.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Herbie]

36 minutes ago, Boswell said:

My experience of having what I thought was my catalytic converter removed from my Lexus RX 400H (first reg. April ’09) might be useful to anyone with the same model.

The exhaust section was removed around mid-day, about 3 weeks ago, in Chelsea, London  (next to the Marsden Hospital). I booked the car in with my independent garage, who I’ve used for 4 years, and trusted 100%. Verdict was the cat had been removed (clear photographs of exhaust section), long delay in ordering Lexus parts, but alternative sources were an option.

No problem with my insurance covering the damage, as it was considered vandalism, but would only cover a hire car if we used either their independent repairer network or a Lexus main dealer, which cut out my independent garage who couldn’t offer a courtesy car (except for service visits).

I talked to my Lexus main dealer who said it was unlikely the cat had been removed, as on my model of 400H, the cat was inaccessible to a casual theft. Lexus Assistance covered getting the car to the main dealer, who confirmed that the cat was still intact, and the crooks had just secured a worthless section of the exhaust.  They mentioned they had 28 owners ahead of me waiting for a replacement cat, and delay was likely to be at least 6-8 weeks to supply, although I only needed the hacked-out exhaust section. Including labour and VAT estimate was just under a grand.

Not having a car was no-go for me, and hiring a car for 6-8 weeks, without a firm date for repair wasn’t appealing. 

Some tips: report the theft immediately to police (can be done online with the Met), as insurance will need an incident reference.

My insurance cover excess was reduced to £100 if claim was made within 48 hours of the damage/theft.

My comp. insurance cover was cheap and cheerful, but it did cover car hire if the car wasn’t driveable; might be worth checking when you renew?

Consider Lexus Assistance cover (basically top AA cover) – it’s cheap as chips (well, 100 quid/year), and covers you and a partner on any car, gets you to a garage (or home) when your Lexus converts to a tractor and illegal to drive, and provides a loan car.

Whether you have an independent garage or not, might be worth having a 2^nd opinion from a Lexus main dealer, particularly as in my case, my independent garage gave the incorrect diagnosis (puzzled by that).

I realise I might suffer from loaded future renewal premiums, but for no-fault claims I'm optimistic.

I’m not technically minded, so some jargon above is probably dodgy. Happy to be corrected on anything..

A very strange experience indeed Richard.

The first question it begs is, if the cat really wasn't taken (and I'm not saying it's not true but just that I'm finding it very, very difficult to believe) but just "a section of exhaust", why did you go through insurance? Your premiums WILL go up at renewal time, no doubt whatsoever.

I don't know how you got them to reduce your excess but even at £100, I would have just gone to a custom exhaust place and got them to fabricate the missing piece of pipe and weld it in. Even if they charged £250 to £300 I'll bet it would still have been cheaper in the long run (thinking of the increased premium when renewal comes round). Alternatively, your indy garage could have done it.

The second question it begs is, if not the cat, what did they take, exactly?

From the workshop manual it does look like the cat is very 'forward' of the pipe run but surely they wouldn't just take a straight section of pipe or the silencer?

 

[Boswell]

That makes a lot of sense, Herbie, and in retrospect maybe I should have settled for a custom exhaust.

My main consideration was having the correct parts fitted (and the main dealer estimate has a load of items) and having a car to drive. I can't afford a hire car, and I can't afford the time to go chasing around finding an outfit to custom-make a repaired section.

Maybe the attached images answer the question?

[Barry14UK]

Looks like the cats gone to me.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Barry14UK said:

Looks like the cats gone to me.

Looks very much like that to me too.

I'm assuming that the first photo is looking towards the rear of the car as you can see the silencer at the back. Coming forward we see the flange and what looks like the upward sweep of the tee piece that meets the two downpipes, and in between those two cut ends should be the cat.

[smitham]

1 hour ago, Barry14UK said:

Looks like the cats gone to me.

Remember there are three cats - two main cats either side of the V6 and thus, inaccessible to thieves and the third one which is a secondary cat and this is exposed on the RX and this is what they have taken in this picture.

 

Solution - buy a replacement from catman (next day delivery) £280 and get it fitted by Carreraworx in Brentford for £50 - takes an hour.  Back on the road. 

 You can drive the car harmlessly to the garage without a cat but it will make a hell of a noise so switch off as much electric as possible particularly the aircon and it will run on electric mostly so spared the embarrassment of driving around in car that sounds like a 1950s prop plane!

Finally the catman replacement isnt platinum - its ceramic so worthless.  Im hoping that the thief - as they seem so clever - will spot it is aftermarket and not bother trying to take it again.  

[smitham]

15 hours ago, Vlady said:

What measures were taken to make sure it won't be stolen again? Is that easy to steal on a first place?

None - I fixed it for £330 (see my other post) and hope i dont need to spend money on insurance or another 150-250 on a catlock.   

Remember the catman replacement isnt platinum - its ceramic so worthless.  Im hoping that the thief - as they seem so clever - will spot it is an aftermarket cheapy and not bother trying to take it again.  

Fingers crossed! 

 

[Herbie]

8 hours ago, smitham said:

the catman replacement isnt platinum - its ceramic so worthless

This can't really be the case, can it? I mean, ceramic alone won't do it so it still has to have precious metals to act as the catalyst so it must still have some value, albeit not as much.

I seem to remember reading that 'real' cats (for want of a better word) have catalytic 'beads' of the precious metals, whereas the ceramic ones have a ceramic core that is covered in a 'catalytic wash' that has the catalyst suspended in it. If that's correct then they have to find a way of getting that coating off, but as the saying goes, "Where there's a will...."

[smitham]

12 minutes ago, Herbie said:

This can't really be the case, can it? I mean, ceramic alone won't do it so it still has to have precious metals to act as the catalyst so it must still have some value, albeit not as much.

I seem to remember reading that 'real' cats (for want of a better word) have catalytic 'beads' of the precious metals, whereas the ceramic ones have a ceramic core that is covered in a 'catalytic wash' that has the catalyst suspended in it. If that's correct then they have to find a way of getting that coating off, but as the saying goes, "Where there's a will...."

Sorry yes - I should be a bit clearer that the reason the aftermarket one is cheaper, is that it is primarily made of ceramic but coated in precious metal.

Surely if it costs £280 vs the Lexus £1500, the aftermarket one must be only worth no more than a £5 scrap value on the black market?  That's a number of hours of work to scour the streets, find a Lexus and then 2 minutes to get under it and cut the cat out?   Is that worth it for a fiver - the thief will make a loss on the cost of petrol alone.   Surely they will learn to target the real Lexus cats.   That's what I'm hoping for anyway. 

[Herbie]

You could be right, but at £1500 that Lexus price is well over the top anyway - just because it's Lexus, not because it has any more precious metal content than any other cat on any other brand of car.

Plus, you have to remember that the ne'r-do-wells are not the sharpest tools in the box anyway and probably can't do the maths regarding profit and loss.

They do seem to be targetting Lexus (or are we just hearing more about Lexus because we're in a Lexus forum?) in the mistaken belief that the precious metals in a cat from a hybrid will be 'less corroded' and 'newer' than those from cats of other cars. However, as I remember from chemistry lessons at school more than 45 years ago, a catalyst speeds up a reaction but is left unchanged by that reaction, so the metals from 20 year old or brand new, hybrid or non-hybrid, should all be the same anyway.

[Boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, smitham said:

Sorry yes - I should be a bit clearer that the reason the aftermarket one is cheaper, is that it is primarily made of ceramic but coated in precious metal.

Surely if it costs £280 vs the Lexus £1500, the aftermarket one must be only worth no more than a £5 scrap value on the black market?  That's a number of hours of work to scour the streets, find a Lexus and then 2 minutes to get under it and cut the cat out?   Is that worth it for a fiver - the thief will make a loss on the cost of petrol alone.   Surely they will learn to target the real Lexus cats.   That's what I'm hoping for anyway. 

But when Cats first came out and we were testing them for production one of my jobs was photographing the interior “brick” after running for thousands of hours, they were all ceramic core with platinum coating (you cannot actually see the coating it’s too fine, the brick honeycomb looks like ceramic), I know I am out,of touch with the latest technology but I’d love to know how or what they use as the catalyst now.

[Josswallace]

I understand that although you need a catalytic converer to pass the MOT it is not illegal to drive without one. Does anyone know whether a Lexus 400h would pass the emmissions test without a cat.

[Herbie]

14 minutes ago, Josswallace said:

I understand that although you need a catalytic converer to pass the MOT it is not illegal to drive without one. Does anyone know whether a Lexus 400h would pass the emmissions test without a cat.

Hybrid cars are not emissions-tested anyway so they can't fail an emissions test. However, there is some debate around whether an MOT tester would fail it if he knew there should be one underneath but all he sees is a straight bit of pipe where the cat should be.