RX450h - Catalytic Converter Theft

[Kopper]

How do you tell if yours is stolen? There may not be any visible signs from the outside. 

Will the car refuse to start or give out a weird sound? 

[Delphius1]

53 minutes ago, Kopper said:

How do you tell if yours is stolen? There may not be any visible signs from the outside. 

Will the car refuse to start or give out a weird sound? 

When you start the car, the loud noise from the open exhaust pipes where the cat used to be is a bit of a giveaway. :-)

[phb10186]

Just for info - had the Cat stolen from my 2009 RX400h last week too... in North London... very easy to spot - the car sounds like an old tractor, and obviously there is a big section of the exhaust missing on inspection. There are 2 cats on the RX400h... The main one is up near the engine, and can't be stolen, the second one is underneath the drivers seat. Both are platinum based, and thus have a scrap value. The one under the drivers seat is very vulnerable to theft. I am told the second one (the one that gets stolen) does about 15% of the emissions work, and the main one that can't be accessed easily does the vast majority of catalytic conversion. In other words, you are looking at the second stage of a 2-stage catalytic converter system.

Phoned up Lexus, and they had had 6 others done that week, and the parts were on back-order from Japan, unavailable until end of September. Quotation was £1300 for replacement of entire exhaust section - that's a lot, but it's comparable to other platinum-based systems that the Japanese manufacturers use.

What do you do if you don't want to pay £1300 and wait 3 weeks? Fit a universal replacement... won't be as good as the Lexus OEM part I would suppose, but I got mine for under £300 and welded in for another £50... so not as bad as I was expecting... certainly not worth an insurance claim. I could have got a used part for about £600, but its a 10-year old part as a minimum... with unknown mileage, so I was happy to try the universal option. I painted the welds and new piping with some high temp black paint to protect from any corrosion too.

What have I got now... a ceramic universal replacement - it doesn't have any scrap value as no platinum in it.

Obvious concerns:

Will it pass an MOT? - well, as I was told by an MOT tester, Hybrids are exempt from emissions testing, so there won't be an issue there (you can verify this info online).

Will it affect a warranty? - well probably, as its not OEM - but the car is 10 years old and its not under warranty anyway.

Will it last like the original part? - I bet it won't, but I can replace it three more times and still be ahead financially... so I don't care.

Does the car sound any different with a replacement cat? - Nope, sounds exactly the same as before in every way.

Could it throw a malfunction indicator light? - Nope, the lambda and O2 sensors are on the first Cat, and there are no sensors past it, so it can't lead to any OBD issues.

Will it effect power or fuel consumption? No idea, initial fuel economy figures are identical to before, and there is no noticeable difference to throttle response - I don't drive the car hard anyway, not the way I drive, and not what this car is for.

When I took the car to have the new Cat put in, there was another RX identical to mine having the same replacement part put in... so I am not alone, neither are the 1000s of Prius owners using similar universal replacements.

Use these guys: https://www.catman.co.uk/ Mike was a great help, and knows what he is doing - he told me he's supplied 40 RX400h cats this week... epidemic.

There are no other universal exhaust sections available (that I could find... and I looked extensively)... its Lexus or a universal one welded in. The only other option would be to get a stainless section fabricated... but they would still use the cat off the old system... which you don't have because it's been harvested by some degenerate already.

Hope this info is useful to those that need it... No idea about the 450, but I've been told they are targeting the entire Lexus range at the moment.

You can secure your Cats using a Cat Lock, of which there are several on the market... Costs about £150 and would take about an hour to install I think... certainly worth doing if you don't want the pain in the butt headache. https://www.catlocks.co.uk - ill get round to doing this shortly.

Cat thefts are rife at the moment, and it's simply a matter of time if you live in certain areas... so I wouldn't assume it won't happen to you.

[phb10186]

On 3/23/2019 at 5:31 PM, Brian26 said:

I could be totally wrong here ( I frequently am according to the wife!) but I thought Lexus exhausts were stainless anyway. I'm sure somebody will put me right if they are not.

Bri

Nope - the silencers are, the cat housings probably are, and the tailpipe is, but the connecting lengths of tubing are just mild steel... hence the rust.

The best stainless system would probably involve re-using the existing stainless silencers, and just replacing the piping... but mine is in good condition at 10 years old, only surface rust... if you look at where they sliced my cat off, only the surface is a bit rusty, there's plenty of good metal left, and the piping is thick.. i'd say 2mm at least... it's not the same as a cheap car with a tinny thin exhaust - its all high quality stuff under there.

I very much doubt any Rx400h would ever need a replacement exhaust looking at it... the underside of the car's floor-pan has far more corrosion than the exhaust... im going to tackle that job next year... it's just a pain with all the prep and painting, but it looks to be worthwhile, if just for reassurance. Rear rails and inner rear sills just forward at the rear of the front arches and front of the rear ones... standard stuff really... where the stones and mud get to.

First time I have looked under the car since I bought it, and it is a very nicely made vehicle... it reminds me of the stuff I had in the late 90s... It's a very similar place under there as my old Rav4... corrosion in exactly the same areas.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, phb10186 said:

I could have got a used part for about £600, but its a 10-year old part as a minimum... with unknown mileage,

It doesn't matter how old or how much mileage. They don't wear out because the catalyst isn't affected by the reaction.

1 hour ago, phb10186 said:

What have I got now... a ceramic universal replacement - it doesn't have any scrap value as no platinum in it.

Does it look noticeably different from the original? What I'm getting at is, if anyone tries to nick it will they immediately be able to tell that it's not worth having and consequently leave it alone, or will they still cut it out and then be disappointed later whilst leaving you to be out of pocket again?

[phb10186]

25 minutes ago, Herbie said:

It doesn't matter how old or how much mileage. They don't wear out because the catalyst isn't affected by the reaction.

Does it look noticeably different from the original? What I'm getting at is, if anyone tries to nick it will they immediately be able to tell that it's not worth having and consequently leave it alone, or will they still cut it out and then be disappointed later whilst leaving you to be out of pocket again?

1. Maybe the cat doesn't, but the rest of the piping ect is still old, and would be older and probably more damaged with more miles than the one on my 09. Used parts are an inherent risk, and don't forget you're then replacing a whole section, the rest of which is all fine.

 

2. I never looked under the car before, so I don't know what the original one looked like. Its quite small, no heat shield on the part (heat shield on the car anyway)... latter point, yeah you can see it looks different to the factory one I think, there's two wacking welds and new metal against the older stuff... Im still going to get a Cat Lock, just to give them more admin in the hope I don't have a repeat. Cost was a pain, but the time and loss of car was more so.

... and don't forget its a brand new part too... comes with the right sized piping, a guarantee etc.... the front and rear cat pipes have different diameters too... one is 60mm the other 50 I think... the bloke at CATMAN knows all about that stuff.

 

I got a plate made up that I stuck under the car on a cool part that basically indicates it's a ceramic part with no platimum... if they cut it out again, id still be left more out of pocket than any other choice.

I beleive the cats are selected based on engine displacement... but you still have the original stage 1 cat doing the majority of the work, so I cant see an issue. Like to keep my cars fully original, but its just not worth replacing with new or used only to be targeted again...

[Duncan mude]

can anyone recommend an after market cat converter for an 06 rx400h? 

[Lager shandy]

I think your find all cats have ceramic honey cone core covered in find precious metal of varying types .and they all do a fine job as long as they are in the correct temp range and mixture range being pumped into them .only advise I can give is oil burning will wreck it and a incorrect burn i.e. Rough running Miss fire will cause the cat to melt internally and block the exhaust causing your car to not start or not hardly rev . I recommend you either just put a straight piece of pipe in the cut out section or find the cheapest cat you can and stop worrying if it meet lexus specs .unless you are loaded then you  just fit a complete new Lexus system as you sit in the Lexus dealer sipping champagne.😁

[Boxbrownie]

Replacing one of the CATs with a bit of pipe is an MoT failure point.

[stevlee]

I just discovered mine cat is stolen .... Low life out there .... Yes please recommendation

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Boxbrownie said:

Replacing one of the CATs with a bit of pipe is an MoT failure point.

Yes it is. Any car that is meant to have cats and doesn't is a major defect, ie, a fail.

However, hybrid cars are exempt from emissions testing so, as a cat's only job is to deal with emissions, would it pass or not?

I suspect that the missing cat will prevail and the car will fail but I don't know for sure.

[Boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

Yes it is. Any car that is meant to have cats and doesn't is a major defect, ie, a fail.

However, hybrid cars are exempt from emissions testing so, as a cat's only job is to deal with emissions, would it pass or not?

I suspect that the missing cat will prevail and the car will fail but I don't know for sure.

Hybrids are indeed exempt from emissions testing (MoT) but any half decent MoT inspector looking under on the ramp will see the replacement tubing, fail.

 

 

[Lager shandy]

Ok if we are all focusing on the missing cat and fubaring the link pipe then just purchase a cheap small cat shape silencer and have that welded in .and there you have it and if that's not good enough for you surround it with a bloody cat lock .

[phb10186]

22 hours ago, Duncan mude said:

can anyone recommend an after market cat converter for an 06 rx400h? 

Yeah - I wrote a whole transcript up for forum benefit about 10 posts above. CATMAN in Southampton... £288 for the cat, and I paid £50 to have it welded in. It's a straightforward job.

[phb10186]

6 hours ago, stevlee said:

I just discovered mine cat is stolen .... Low life out there .... Yes please recommendation

Yeah - I wrote a whole transcript up for forum benefit about 11 posts above. CATMAN in Southampton... £288 for the cat, and I paid £50 to have it welded in. It's a straightforward job.

[phb10186]

5 hours ago, Herbie said:

Yes it is. Any car that is meant to have cats and doesn't is a major defect, ie, a fail.

However, hybrid cars are exempt from emissions testing so, as a cat's only job is to deal with emissions, would it pass or not?

I suspect that the missing cat will prevail and the car will fail but I don't know for sure.

Indeed... its not only an MOT failure, its also illegal, and it's 3 or 6 points IIRC... it comes under the 'unroadworthy vehicle' law, and it could also invalidate any insurance you may need as well, as it's also a modification.

[stevlee]

14 hours ago, phb10186 said:

Yeah - I wrote a whole transcript up for forum benefit about 11 posts above. CATMAN in Southampton... £288 for the cat, and I paid £50 to have it welded in. It's a straightforward job.

Thanks Ben, just ordered. CATMAN said its epidemic in London currently, just last week he had 44 orders

[phb10186]

I was one of the first in this current wave I think, shame really as I've only had the car about 6m. 

[Barry14UK]

Ii would be interesting to learn whether it would be viable have an alarm connected to the catlock as belt and braces.

[Kazy]

Hi I have a Lexus RX 400h 2006, had this car for 3 years now (had 2 before this 1 never had a problem)  2 weeks ago had my cat stolen took it to a local garage cost me 400 to get it replaced absolutely gutted that this has happened I dread going to my Lexus incase they done it again!!! Yesterday my son's Lexus RX 400h 2008 had it's cat stolen he lives about 20 minutes away from me ( we live in North London). In the last 2 weeks since mine got taken we have heard at least 3 Lexus drive by with same problem, also my husband has heard of 5 Lexus RX been done too. Just can't believe how brazen these gangs are!!!!! 

[phb10186]

On 9/17/2019 at 10:31 PM, Kazy said:

Hi I have a Lexus RX 400h 2006, had this car for 3 years now (had 2 before this 1 never had a problem)  2 weeks ago had my cat stolen took it to a local garage cost me 400 to get it replaced absolutely gutted that this has happened I dread going to my Lexus incase they done it again!!! Yesterday my son's Lexus RX 400h 2008 had it's cat stolen he lives about 20 minutes away from me ( we live in North London). In the last 2 weeks since mine got taken we have heard at least 3 Lexus drive by with same problem, also my husband has heard of 5 Lexus RX been done too. Just can't believe how brazen these gangs are!!!!! 

I've lived in North London all my life except when I was at University in the early 2000s in Portsmouth - This was the first incidence of any form of car theft I've ever had, and I had two theft issues in Portsmouth over the 4 years I was there... so I'd still say on balance that vehicle crime is is still fairly low here. Be thankful the RX400 has old style key in ignition immobolisation unlike the new keyless systems - otherwise you could be looking at the entire car going.

[phb10186]

Edited text to my long post earlier in this topic:

3 cats on Rx400h, not 2 as I thought.

"There are 3 cats on the RX400h... The main two are up near the engine, and can't be stolen, the last one is underneath the drivers seat. All are platinum based, and thus have a scrap value. The one under the drivers seat is very vulnerable to theft. I am told the third one (the one that gets stolen) does about 15% of the emissions work, and the main ones that can't be accessed easily does the vast majority of catalytic conversion. In other words, you are looking at the third stage of a 3-stage catalytic converter system."

[Kopper]

On 9/13/2019 at 10:20 PM, phb10186 said:

You can secure your Cats using a Cat Lock, of which there are several on the market... Costs about £150 and would take about an hour to install I think... certainly worth doing if you don't want the pain in the butt headache. https://www.catlocks.co.uk - ill get round to doing this shortly.

 

Hi the catlock looks like it will only etch in a code so it can be traced. It will be pretty useless if all they are after are the precious metals inside. Some kind of 'cage' is needed to stop them cutting through. 

[Herbie]

Not sure what you think a Catloc is Ben but this certainly appears to be a cage and nothing to do with etching:

[Passerby]

Has anyone had a catloc fitted to a 450h? What did Lexus charge (Toyota claim not to be making a profit on fitment....)