Uh oh! Think I killed my LS430! HELP!

willskoda · March 9, 2019

So yesterday I went to start up my poorly LS430 (LPG system not well, couple of sticky valves - all another issue...) The Battery was flat, so I went to jump it. For reasons known only to my stupid hands I short circuited the car for about 30 seconds.

The result is the car will start but will not rev past 2500rpm. The ICE and climate control are not functional either. I've checked fuse after to fuse and can't find anything.

I have fault P2110 (throttle actuator control system) showing on the OBD.

All a bit of a sorry do really.

Any glimmers of hope from forumites before I have to call a professional?

TIA

The-Acre · March 9, 2019

12 minutes ago, willskoda said:

So yesterday I went to start up my poorly LS430 (LPG system not well, couple of sticky valves - all another issue...) The battery was flat, so I went to jump it. For reasons known only to my stupid hands I short circuited the car for about 30 seconds.

The result is the car will start but will not rev past 2500rpm. The ICE and climate control are not functional either. I've checked fuse after to fuse and can't find anything.

I have fault P2110 (throttle actuator control system) showing on the OBD.

All a bit of a sorry do really.

Any glimmers of hope from forumites before I have to call a professional?

TIA

Have you tried disconnecting the Battery for 10 mins to see if things reset? Then connect a fully charged Battery.

willskoda · March 9, 2019

27 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 10 mins to see if things reset? Then connect a fully charged battery.

I tried it for maybe 1 minute. I'll maybe unhook it for the afternoon and see where we're at out the other side. Thanks

Daveyboy20 · March 9, 2019

Yeah take the Battery out and fully charge it - if your fuses are OK and you didn't smell any nasty plasticky burning smells I'd imagine it just needs a good old reset. On my old x350 Jag you could put the two cables (not connected to the Battery IN ANY WAY!) together to drain all of the capacitors in the car for a full reset. I don't know for sure but I'd imagine it'd do the same on a 430?

willskoda · March 9, 2019

33 minutes ago, Daveyboy20 said:

Yeah take the battery out and fully charge it - if your fuses are OK and you didn't smell any nasty plasticky burning smells I'd imagine it just needs a good old reset. On my old x350 Jag you could put the two cables (not connected to the battery IN ANY WAY!) together to drain all of the capacitors in the car for a full reset. I don't know for sure but I'd imagine it'd do the same on a 430?

Got to be worth a punt at least. I'll do it overnight

Texas · March 9, 2019

I know it is in the IS section but have you read this,

It might help some as Hopefully the LS ain't a million miles ( electrically anyway) away from the IS.

paul m.

willskoda · March 11, 2019

Sadly, after a night without power and checks of all the fuses, still these problems exist. I really think I have killed this car.

So, do I scrap her or try sell her as spares/repair?

I'm so sad, this car took our family across Europe during the summer and this is such a sad end.

Texas · March 11, 2019

Slow down there fella, Don't mention the 'S' word near her!, Everything is fixable-if you know 'What' to fix.

it sounds as though you are a bit attached to this motor so it might be worth throwing a bit of money ( if you can) at it and enlisting the help of a recommened AutoSpark to try and diagnose What is at fault! What say you?

Paul m.

willskoda · March 11, 2019

It'd be nice to get an autospark to look at it. I did call a recommended one earlier, sadly, he pretty much laughed at me! Said there was nothing he could do with a car like this. The reality is that if I get it running there is still the issue of the sticky valves to sort. It feels like the wound is just getting larger and no matter how many plasters I'm going to throw at it the bleeding isn't going to stop.

The-Acre · March 11, 2019

5 hours ago, willskoda said:

It'd be nice to get an autospark to look at it. I did call a recommended one earlier, sadly, he pretty much laughed at me! Said there was nothing he could do with a car like this. The reality is that if I get it running there is still the issue of the sticky valves to sort. It feels like the wound is just getting larger and no matter how many plasters I'm going to throw at it the bleeding isn't going to stop.

A car like the LS must surely have protection against a short circuit. And can I ask who diagnosed sticking valves?

willskoda · March 11, 2019

8 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

A car like the LS must surely have protection against a short circuit. And can I ask who diagnosed sticking valves?

You would think it would have protection but I can't find a blown fuse anywhere. I was hoping for something obvious in the fuseable link next to the Battery but nothing.

The guy who diagnosed the sticky valves (number 1 and number 8, apparently) was the guy who was trying to fix my LPG system - which became a money pit very quickly too! The story there is the old injectors were leaking water in to the system. Very much the least of my worries that though now.

The-Acre · March 11, 2019

1 hour ago, willskoda said:

You would think it would have protection but I can't find a blown fuse anywhere. I was hoping for something obvious in the fuseable link next to the battery but nothing.

The guy who diagnosed the sticky valves (number 1 and number 8, apparently) was the guy who was trying to fix my LPG system - which became a money pit very quickly too! The story there is the old injectors were leaking water in to the system. Very much the least of my worries that though now.

I know nothing about LPG, is it possible to remove the system and just use petrol, or is it much more complicated than that? I've never heard of a sticking valve on these engines. What mileage has yours covered?

willskoda · March 12, 2019

I think she's on about 120,000 miles now. The LPG system is turned off at the minute so does run on petrol. It runs ok (when it ran!) but the damage done by the water leaking in through the LPG system is noticeable as it occasionally stutters. I'm becoming more resigned to the fact that realistically chucking money at this car is probably for another person and not me. A sale as spares/repair might be my best way forward.

runsgrateasanut · March 12, 2019

Not revving past 2,500 is the most significant factor. Replacement ECU not cheap even s/hand. Can't understand the LPG water in the system, or sticking valves theory. Sounds like Bunkum. How long ago did you last have the LPG system, which I assume is Sequential, serviced? This is most important.

Does it rev passed 2.5K on Petrol but not on LPG? The ICE and Climate control are they working since re-set?

willskoda · March 12, 2019

The LPG was installed by Leeds LPG back in 2012. It wasn't regularly serviced due to the poor customer service by them. They've since disappeared. I recently got the AC fixed and cambelt changed in prep for jaunt across Europe last summer. Whilst somewhere between Switzerland and Luxembourg a juddering under light acceleration became noticeable. Originally the problem really only existed when running on gas. I nursed it back to England. When in the garage, the bloke who had opened a unit next door was an LPG fitter so he took a look at things and found the system had many problems. He gave it a service but suggested the injectors weren't good. The problem didn't go away and they removed the injectors for new ones. When the old ones came out they said they pretty much disintegrated. The rough running problem continued. Eventually they diagnosed that due to water ingress vale 1 and 8 were sticking - due to the weakness of LPG it didn't run well with this problem but on petrol it was much better. He was awaiting a new bit of kit which he hoped would sort this out but we hadn't yet got to that. Due to the cost of running the LS on petrol, I've rarely used it and the Battery would go flat quite often. I needed to move it the other day and this is when I killed it!!

It does not run on LPG at the moment so, indeed it does not rev past 2.5k on petrol and the ICE/Climate unit does not work since a reset. (I disconnected the live - I read I should have done neutral - would that make a difference??). I've now check every fuse I can find (I think) but all are intact (ironically the fuse which powers the LPG system did blow!) I cannot check any of the relays and I'm not sure if there is anything hidden from view which may control these disabled functions. It's all a bit of a sorry state!!

ScottC · March 12, 2019

Hi Will

When I went to look at my car the owner had run the Battery flat by leaving the radio on whilst hoovering and cleaning it.

A breakdown service had jump started it but connected the leads wrong and the car was quite poorly when we got there, wouldn't start at all

but random bits still worked.

Car was trailered to local garage who found a blown fuse, it took them a few days as it wasn't at all easy to locate.

They had to order a replacement in as it was a special one.

This is what the owner told us when we went back a week later to buy the car.......so there may be a fuse somewhere you have overlooked?

If the car won't run over 2500 rpm and the OBD shows a fault code for the throttle actuator mechanism maybe you should sort that out first as the 2

things are probably related.

Good luck

Scott

The-Acre · March 12, 2019

1 hour ago, ScottC said:

Hi Will

When I went to look at my car the owner had run the battery flat by leaving the radio on whilst hoovering and cleaning it.

A breakdown service had jump started it but connected the leads wrong and the car was quite poorly when we got there, wouldn't start at all

but random bits still worked.

Car was trailered to local garage who found a blown fuse, it took them a few days as it wasn't at all easy to locate.

They had to order a replacement in as it was a special one.

This is what the owner told us when we went back a week later to buy the car.......so there may be a fuse somewhere you have overlooked?

If the car won't run over 2500 rpm and the OBD shows a fault code for the throttle actuator mechanism maybe you should sort that out first as the 2

things are probably related.

Good luck

Scott

Yes, I thought there was a 40amp fuse, a white one if I remember correctly, I don't know where it is though.

runsgrateasanut · March 12, 2019

There is a thread on here where the guy with a ls400 has a problem with his Radio after someone incorrectly reversed the Battery polarity. Blew a fuse . Not sure if he has sorted it as asked recently, but no update.

The running issues could be attributed to a couple of things. Not to denigrate your LPG person, but if he didn’t change your Vaporiser for a brand new one then I wonder if he actually serviced it.

What are called heavy ends build up and affect performance. A filter change is just too much trouble and its cheaper to replace the whole Vaporiser when you consider the work element to cleaning which may tear the diaphragm. Cost under £100 but beware not getting an Air bubble in the head when putting back heater hoses etc.,

If you’ve not had the Throttle body off and cleaned it, then a build up of crud could be sticking the throttle body?

These are my thoughts and may not be applicable to your Car or solving the problems. I would say that I’ve met less than competent LPG people in the past and so asking to replace with new, allows you to visually inspect that work has been done.

willskoda · March 12, 2019

Thanks - yes the vapouriser was done as the old was snookered! One of my problems was that I hadn't kept up with the servicing well and didn't really know who to go to.

I inspected my throttle body over the weekend and it looked very clean - I remember the process of cleaning the one on my old LS400 a few years ago - I actually did a write up of it on here. Good memories!

runsgrateasanut · March 12, 2019

6 hours ago, willskoda said:

I think she's on about 120,000 miles now. The LPG system is turned off at the minute so does run on petrol. It runs ok (when it ran!) but the damage done by the water leaking in through the LPG system is noticeable as it occasionally stutters. I'm becoming more resigned to the fact that realistically chucking money at this car is probably for another person and not me. A sale as spares/repair might be my best way forward.

Of course the old “won’t run over 2,500 revs” is in the list of ECU problems associated with the LS400 ECU Capacitor death. Do LS430 owners have the same Caps problems as the LS400?

Water in the injectors just baffles me. LPG is turned into gas from a liquid at the Vaporiser, how could it possibly get into the Engine two cylinders which are (?) at opposite ends to each other, but not all 8 cylinders? Valve wear maybe?

When were the Spark plugs last changed? Might be worth your removing the two culprits and seeing the “burn” colour after getting the Car up to temperature.

You may be financially right in your thinking its for someone else to enjoy the sleuthing.

PCM · April 14, 2019

On 3/9/2019 at 1:09 PM, willskoda said:

So yesterday I went to start up my poorly LS430 (LPG system not well, couple of sticky valves - all another issue...) The battery was flat, so I went to jump it. For reasons known only to my stupid hands I short circuited the car for about 30 seconds.

The result is the car will start but will not rev past 2500rpm. The ICE and climate control are not functional either. I've checked fuse after to fuse and can't find anything.

I have fault P2110 (throttle actuator control system) showing on the OBD.

All a bit of a sorry do really.

Any glimmers of hope from forumites before I have to call a professional?

TIA

Is your car ok now?

( Hope so )

willskoda · April 14, 2019

9 minutes ago, PCM said:

Is your car ok now?

( Hope so )

We'll, there's good and bad news. Sadly, I decided to pull the plug and end my 7 year ownership and with several tears, off she went on the back of a recovery truck. The good news is she paid the deposit on my new car and she's back on the road with her new owner. She even came to visit last week. It went to an enthusiast who already had a spare ECU and with the help of an LPG specialist her many problems have been fixed. If she gives her new owner even half the memories she gave me, I'll be pleased. For me now, I've entered the world of the PHEV and got myself a Mercedes C350e estate.

PCM · April 14, 2019

1 minute ago, willskoda said:

We'll, there's good and bad news. Sadly, I decided to pull the plug and end my 7 year ownership and with several tears, off she went on the back of a recovery truck. The good news is she paid the deposit on my new car and she's back on the road with her new owner. She even came to visit last week. It went to an enthusiast who already had a spare ECU and with the help of an LPG specialist her many problems have been fixed. If she gives her new owner even half the memories she gave me, I'll be pleased. For me now, I've entered the world of the PHEV and got myself a Mercedes C350e estate.

Thank you for the update.

Best wishes to all!