Using Oil? Help

[Chef1969]

Hi just need some advice. Checked my oil and its quite low at the bottom of the dip stick. I'm about 1000miles off the next service at 148k. Should the oil drop so much in between services? I have done a lot of long motorway journeys recently but that shouldn't matter. It has just passed the Mot last week and there is no oil leaks. My question is, is this kinda normal for hybrids? or should I be worrying? Thanks

[McRattlehead]

I would be concerned,when did you last check the oil?I check mine at least once a month, as for the hybrid issue this has no effect on oil consumption as the engine operates in the same way as a normal car would.

The usual causes of major oil use are leaks or the engine is burning oil,you would see bluish smoke usually in this case.It is worth checking the oil level after a car service as they can sometimes underfill it.

[colin79666]

Top it up and see how it goes over the next 1k miles (check every week). If it doesn’t drop then it was possibly low after the last service. If it does drop back down then it will need investigation. I’ve never had any oil consumption issues with the Toyota 1.8 in hybrid form but I’ve never had one up to that sort of mileage. 

[Chef1969]

Hi Guys 

thanks for the replies and advice. It does concern me. I will keep you posted on how it goes

[The-Acre]

36 minutes ago, Chef1969 said:

Hi Guys 

thanks for the replies and advice. It does concern me. I will keep you posted on how it goes

If you were burning oil, as suggested, you would usually see some evidence from the exhaust in the form of smoke. What's the service interval?  Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to use some oil with that kind of mileage.  It would also be interesting to know how much oil you have to add to bring it up to the correct level, that may help to determine the extent of the consumption.

[Stompe]

Are you using the correct oil? 

[Texas]

If you check the owners manual there might be an acceptable oil consumption stated, prob something like 1 Litre per 1,000 miles.

Just checked the IS250 Manual and it states advice should be sought if oil consumption exceeds 1 Litre every 600 miles !!!!! 

 

paul m.

[Chef1969]

Hi Guys

To all of you for responding- thanks.. The service is done by Lexus as I have the service plan in place. I just spoke to Lexus and they said due to the mileage now at near 150k its probably using a bit..  Texas.. as you mentioned, I will check the manual to see if its normal to use some as I'm very close to an oil change and in February I did a lot of motorway miles for work.. at least 1600mile! I haven't seen any evidence of Blue Smoke if it is burning oil..unlike the Is220D I had before!  So I have booked in for the service which is due in about 800miles. Lexus agreed to do it even though its abit early. But I think I will have to invest in some oil to keep an eye on the level going forward and do a top up if needed. 

I wonder if this is normal on the Prius to use oil ? All the taxi drivers use them now with apparently big mileages on..that's why I'm not concerned about my  mileage as such.

[BachelorDays]

Joining the conversation late and can see most of the relevant stuff mentioned already.

The manual normally gives reasonable oil consumption as well as volume of oil between the Low and High marks on the dipstick (look under checking or topping up oil).

As for consumption, 1L per 600 miles is normally quoted. My experience over many years is that the oil consumption is negligible between services if mostly driving around locally. Even on motorways, cruising around 70mph, I wouldn't expect to lose much. Do 100mph+ and you'll be amazed how the consumption goes up, although it's all relative to engine size etc. I had MB v8s and never had oil run low. MB E Class, all 3 of them, would need topping up before I'd finish doing 1600 miles at high speeds.

I'd just top up and wait the 800 miles.

Of course, oil should be checked when engine hot to get the right reading.

[stormchaser]

Mines on 94K and never uses any oil in between 10K services.


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[Chef1969]

Hi Paul/Storm

thanks and yes that's what I would expect.. no oil used between the 10k. I had a  Mondeo for 12 years and that didn't use oil ! and that was a 2L TDCi !

 

Its in for a service next week and I will be keeping a close eye on it.. I almost hope they find a leak to account for it and not what I suspect which is its burning it.

[m4rkw]

@Chef1969 have you had the car from new and has it always been serviced by the same garage? I've heard that changing the brand of oil can cause issues like this because they have different detergent packages in them. Could also be many other things though. Manufacturers do take the michael a bit with their tolerable levels of oil use these days.

Also manufacturer oil change intervals are still insane and very likely contribute to engine wear that might explain oil burning. 10k is way too long imho even if you're doing a lot of motorway mileage.

[Chef1969]

Hi m4rkw

 

 Thanks for the response. I have only had it for 2 years and before me it was a company car so has a full Lexus history with various dealers. Since I bought it I have only had Chester Lexus service it as part of my service plan... so therefore it should always have had the 0/20 oil used. I do a right mix of driving as I use the car for my job so sometimes a lot of long motorway runs and then other weeks more local. I had it serviced last month and Lexus said it may well be burning some oil now due to the high miles.. on 149K now and to keep a check on it every 1000miles and look at the level. It  was full to the brim when it came back as one would expect. so I'm going to keep a watch on it going forward.  So I will see how it gets on.. 

[m4rkw]

Wow 149k on a 2013? That's 25k/year!

[m4rkw]

Also I don't trust manufacturer service intervals. Many technicians I've spoken to advise against going 10k between oil changes. I change between 3k and 5k depending on the ratio of cold to hot miles (derived programmatically from tracker logs).

If you think about it from the manufacturer's point of view - a long service interval makes the car more attractive at the point of sale because of the (apparently) lower maintenance costs. And they only need it to last about 100k or so, let it get well outside the warranty period and then they'd *rather* it had an engine failure because then you might buy a new car from them.

[doog442]

1 hour ago, Chef1969 said:

Hi m4rkw

 

 Thanks for the response. I have only had it for 2 years and before me it was a company car so has a full Lexus history with various dealers. Since I bought it I have only had Chester Lexus service it as part of my service plan... so therefore it should always have had the 0/20 oil used. I do a right mix of driving as I use the car for my job so sometimes a lot of long motorway runs and then other weeks more local. I had it serviced last month and Lexus said it may well be burning some oil now due to the high miles.. on 149K now and to keep a check on it every 1000miles and look at the level. It  was full to the brim when it came back as one would expect. so I'm going to keep a watch on it going forward.  So I will see how it gets on.. 

They under filled mine in a service last year . Did you check after the previous service ? That said I would expect some oil usage at that mileage

[Chef1969]

Hi doog442

 

 I must admit no I didn't check the oil after the previous oil change so who knows? I defiantly checked it this time!... and yes I think its using abit now.. just something to live with until I can afford to change the car

[m4rkw]

@Chef1969 If you can, find out what oil was used the last few times it was changed. I've heard from a reliable source that changing the brand of oil (not the viscosity, just the brand name) can affect stuff like this. Eg say you used Shell (as a random example) for 10 years and then switch to Mobile One. They may both be completely fine oils and both within the spec for the car, but because they have different additives and detergents in them, the switch from one to the other after a long period of using the same one can cause oil consumption. This happened to someone I know and he switched back to the original oil and then it stopped using any.

It's a long shot but if the oil brands are all listed on your dealer invoices then it's easy enough to try and you've got nothing to lose!

[stormchaser]

It’s totally pointless changing the oil before 10K. I let mine go 15K once before it was changed and it was still a clear gold colour then. These engines don’t get stressed because of its a hybrid and not always running like a normal engine. My 2011 hasn’t used any oil at all between services and now on 94K.
I have read on US forms that some have used 15/30 oil which has cured a lot of consumption. It’s still within the correct grades for the engine.


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[m4rkw]

11 minutes ago, stormchaser said:

It’s totally pointless changing the oil before 10K. I let mine go 15K once before it was changed and it was still a clear gold colour then. These engines don’t get stressed because of its a hybrid and not always running like a normal engine. My 2011 hasn’t used any oil at all between services and now on 94K.
I have read on US forms that some have used 15/30 oil which has cured a lot of consumption. It’s still within the correct grades for the engine.

I don't claim to know a lot about hybrids, and my car isn't one, but this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. No engine is "stressed" when it's running under normal conditions, and oil is not well preserved in an engine when it isn't running, quite the opposite. Moisture builds up in the crankcase and only gets vented off through the CCV when the engine is run up to temperature for a period of time. This is why engines with an "oil quality sensor" (which I also don't trust) generally indicate a longer interval in miles the more the car is driven, and why if a car is barely driven at all you should still probably change the oil every 6 months. Motorway miles are really good on the engine, it's pretty much ideal conditions, so if you change your oil and then put 5k motorway miles on it in a short space of time with 100+ mile trips then your oil will likely look brand new when you look at the dipstick.

Maybe there's something else about hybrids that I don't know that changes this equation but I'm struggling to imagine how. Maybe it deliberately runs it up to temperature and then duty cycles it to keep it there? Seems a bit of a stretch given that the main goal of those systems is better fuel mileage and lower emissions. The manufacturer really doesn't care if the car makes it past 100k miles as long as it makes it out of the warranty period.

In any case you'll never save enough money on oil changes to even begin to pay for a major engine repair. I've heard from a garage owner a year or two ago that the number of 2008+ cars from companies like BMW and Audi coming in with <100k miles on them needing a new engine is "phenomenal" and he was convinced it was because of the manufacturer's extended oil change intervals.

[stormchaser]

Agree about Audi,s etc. My Octavia tdi threw a rod at 70K.

I had it from new and was serviced at the right intervals right up until it happened. It was a well known fault with that year 1.9 tdi but Skoda never done a thing about it.

The way I look at hybrids is that generally the engine doesn’t equate to the cars total mileage due to the fact that you are doing a lot of mileage on electric only with no engine running. Obviously different if you do a lot of motorway miles all the time.

What I can’t understand is why in the US they have so many problems with the CT when none is recorded here. The same goes for the Prius there too with the same engine.

 

 

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[m4rkw]

7 minutes ago, stormchaser said:

The way I look at hybrids is that generally the engine doesn’t equate to the cars total mileage due to the fact that you are doing a lot of mileage on electric only with no engine running. Obviously different if you do a lot of motorway miles all the time.

That's true, but the oil is likely to be dirtier in an engine that isn't run very much as opposed to cleaner. I don't know how often hybrids run their engines though, maybe the charging duty cycle is enough to keep them hot enough to condition the oil. Mileage is not a good indicator of when you should change your oil anyway, it really depends how the car was driven. Some very good info on oil change intervals here: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/291

[ColinBarber]

Plenty of Prius and other Toyota hybrids doing very high mileage with no engine failures on standard service intervals, same as Toyota standard petrol engined vehicles. I don't see any reason to change your oil at shorter intervals than 10k. The synthetic oil used more than stands up to that interval as plenty of oil analysis reports have shown - which people in the US love to get done.

The fact that people in the US have consumption issues somewhat shows this isn't an interval issue as they tend to change every 6k miles.

[m4rkw]

2 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The synthetic oil used more than stands up to that interval as plenty of oil analysis reports have shown

Can you link me to some data on that?

[ColinBarber]

https://priuschat.com/threads/oil-analysis-result-10k-miles-on-toyota-0w-20.108994/

https://priuschat.com/threads/used-oil-analysis-30k-to-40k.102890/

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ct-200h-model-2011-present/813428-used-oil-analysis-mobil-1-vs-oem-toyota-0w-20-a.html

 

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ct-200h-model-2011-present/794258-high-milage-ct.html

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Since this thread is alive again, I'll update that I do not lease my CT (I'd be broke with my annual mileage), and that I am now past 125k on my 2014. While I have had no problems with my car, and maintaining it very well, I am now on 20k+ oil change intervals thanks to oil analysis reports and using Mobil 1's 15k oil and filter. I should be able to go a lot longer between oil changes still and am testing that at the moment. Helps a lot with running costs for driving 130k per year.

I'm on my second set of tires now, and still on my original brakes.